Old BFL buyers vs new asicminer prices - page 5.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised. Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

The funny thing is they said the same things about the 65nm product. Honest Abe, the SC line will be blah blah blah. We know how that turned out.

Cablez

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013. 120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised. Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20. The typo seems obvious to me. 1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards. 420 BTC / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

The one problem I have with this analysis is that is it is completely from hindsight. No one had even heard of ASICMiner back in August 2012 to make a choice. He wasn't even a blip on the radar. This kind of math is somewhat useful but not helpful.

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: xstr8guy on August 28, 2013, 04:39:47 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 04:26:42 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on August 28, 2013, 04:17:47 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.
Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

Why is this even posted in this thread? Isn't this supposed to be about the Monarch?

You can lead a horse to water ...

... but you can't make him drink. Especially if it's the same ol' stinky, stagnant water you've tried to make him drink hundreds of times before.

The analogy here is there is no water to drink (0 real information about the units that do not even exist except as a picture). Try BFL forums for more information right?

xstr8guy

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1004

Glow Stick Dance!

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 04:26:42 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on August 28, 2013, 04:17:47 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.
Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

Why is this even posted in this thread? Isn't this supposed to be about the Monarch?

You can lead a horse to water ...

... but you can't make him drink. Especially if it's the same ol' stinky, stagnant water you've tried to make him drink hundreds of times before.

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: PuertoLibre on August 28, 2013, 04:32:38 PM

Quote from: xstr8guy on August 28, 2013, 04:30:34 PM

Quote from: Bicknellski on August 28, 2013, 04:21:30 PM

I suppose it needs it's own thread as I suggested since it is quite valuable information about the current market vs. the past market purchases. That should play into your decision when making any NEW PURCHASES like the BFL Monarch... ergo this is maybe a good place to point out the failures of BFL delivery. Would it not? To protect people possibly making the wrong choice when purchasing? Or should we all ignore this analysis?

Haven't we analyzed this to death? There are dozens of threads about this very topic. Is it really necessary to ruin another thread with the same stuff we've been reading for months? I personally want to hear what others have to say about the Monarch. Nothing else.

Such as...?

Make an example

It is not even a prototype correct? No gerbers? No BOM even? Just a drawing... what more can you say about it? Other than taking specifications they claim it will have and doing an analysis and then determining whether or not it is a good buy correct?

Given what Death is saying in a comparison of the Asicminer Blades vs. 2012 BFL Products that have yet to ship... you might want to really rethink whether or not the Monarch has any value other than a thought experiment into a PCIe miner, seems to be hard to say anymore than that right? Forgive me but doesn't BFL have a forum for all this information. Why would anyone come here to get updated info on this product should you not go to the source?

PuertoLibre

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1003

Nope, he is telling the truth about that.

Simply use the search bar at the top right. Go ahead, search.

Inaba

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Ytterbium on August 28, 2013, 04:32:09 PM

Quote from: Inaba on August 28, 2013, 03:52:19 PM

Really, so you're claiming that 20 * 13 = 1500? Wow...

But lets go back to the USD assessment. The only way your figures work out is if you have 100% prediction ability or you use hindsight, neither of which are considered acceptable investing methodologies.

Once again, your entire premise is flawed. If you (or anyone) were so good at predicting the bitcoin price back then, why are you not a multi-billionaire? If you knew BTC was going to go up, especially as much as it did, why were you not mortgaging the house, selling your mother and pimping out your cats and dogs to buy BTC? You'd be an @#$%@% idiot not to... yet you didn't, why?

Hindsight investing is great, except it's a bunch of shit, which is why comparing the price in BTC of anything in August 2012 to something in 2013 is a bunch of shit.

The incredible irony in that statement, is that some people did invest all the money they could, in buying BFL hardware.

You would agree that if people had perfect foresight, they would not have purchased your products, right? In fact, as I pointed out, in the summer of 2012 they would have been better off buying GPUs.

Just a reminder - I never bought anything from BFL, instead I bought a B2 Avalon unit, and that unit has (as I mentioned) already paid for itself in bitcoins. Not only that, one of the main reasons I bought it in February is because I thought you wouldn't ship for a long time, long enough for me to get my unit and start hashing away before you flooded the network.

I was right.

It's just incredible. You come on here and call everyone failures and losers with zero foresight. The reason they failed, and lost is because they trusted you.

On the other hand, I predicted you would continue to fail to deliver long past February, and I was right.

It's totally incredible. You say that the smart people are the ones who made money, because they predicted the future. Well, I predicted you would fail. And I made a lot of money because you did.

Huh, I can't seem to find my quote where I called everyone failures and losers with zero foresight, can you please point that out? You wouldn't be making things up, would you?

We're talking about 100% accurate predictions, not speculation. Get it straight and then come back and maybe we can have an adult conversation. But until then, when you start off with your entire premise being unrelated to the topic your quoting, we might as well not even have the conversation.

PuertoLibre

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1003

Quote from: xstr8guy on August 28, 2013, 04:30:34 PM

Quote from: Bicknellski on August 28, 2013, 04:21:30 PM

I suppose it needs it's own thread as I suggested since it is quite valuable information about the current market vs. the past market purchases. That should play into your decision when making any NEW PURCHASES like the BFL Monarch... ergo this is maybe a good place to point out the failures of BFL delivery. Would it not? To protect people possibly making the wrong choice when purchasing? Or should we all ignore this analysis?

Haven't we analyzed this to death? There are dozens of threads about this very topic. Is it really necessary to ruin another thread with the same stuff we've been reading for months? I personally want to hear what others have to say about the Monarch. Nothing else.

Such as...?

Make an example

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Inaba on August 28, 2013, 03:52:19 PM

Really, so you're claiming that 20 * 13 = 1500? Wow...

But lets go back to the USD assessment. The only way your figures work out is if you have 100% prediction ability or you use hindsight, neither of which are considered acceptable investing methodologies.

Once again, your entire premise is flawed. If you (or anyone) were so good at predicting the bitcoin price back then, why are you not a multi-billionaire? If you knew BTC was going to go up, especially as much as it did, why were you not mortgaging the house, selling your mother and pimping out your cats and dogs to buy BTC? You'd be an @#$%@% idiot not to... yet you didn't, why?

Hindsight investing is great, except it's a bunch of shit, which is why comparing the price in BTC of anything in August 2012 to something in 2013 is a bunch of shit.

The incredible irony in that statement, is that some people did invest all the money they could, in buying BFL hardware.

You would agree that if people had perfect foresight, they would not have purchased your products, right? In fact, as I pointed out, in the summer of 2012 they would have been better off buying GPUs.

Just a reminder - I never bought anything from BFL, instead I bought a B2 Avalon unit, and that unit has (as I mentioned) already paid for itself in bitcoins. Not only that, one of the main reasons I bought it in February is because I thought you wouldn't ship for a long time, long enough for me to get my unit and start hashing away before you flooded the network.

I was right.

It's just incredible. You come on here and call everyone failures and losers with zero foresight. The reason they failed, and lost is because they trusted you.

On the other hand, I predicted you would continue to fail to deliver long past February, and I was right.

It's totally incredible. You say that the smart people are the ones who made money, because they predicted the future. Well, I predicted you would fail. And I made a lot of money because you did.

xstr8guy

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1004

Glow Stick Dance!

Quote from: Bicknellski on August 28, 2013, 04:21:30 PM

I suppose it needs it's own thread as I suggested since it is quite valuable information about the current market vs. the past market purchases. That should play into your decision when making any NEW PURCHASES like the BFL Monarch... ergo this is maybe a good place to point out the failures of BFL delivery. Would it not? To protect people possibly making the wrong choice when purchasing? Or should we all ignore this analysis?

Haven't we analyzed this to death? There are dozens of threads about this very topic. Is it really necessary to ruin another thread with the same stuff we've been reading for months? I personally want to hear what others have to say about the Monarch. Nothing else.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: xstr8guy on August 28, 2013, 04:17:47 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised.
Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

Why is this even posted in this thread? Isn't this supposed to be about the Monarch?

You can lead a horse to water ...

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: xstr8guy on August 28, 2013, 04:17:47 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013. 120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised. Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20. The typo seems obvious to me. 1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards. 420 BTC / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

Why is this even posted in this thread? Isn't this supposed to be about the Monarch?

I suppose it needs it's own thread as I suggested since it is quite valuable information about the current market vs. the past market purchases. That should play into your decision when making any NEW PURCHASES like the BFL Monarch... ergo this is maybe a good place to point out the failures of BFL delivery. Would it not? To protect people possibly making the wrong choice when purchasing? Or should we all ignore this analysis?

xstr8guy

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1004

Glow Stick Dance!

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013. 120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised. Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20. The typo seems obvious to me. 1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards. 420 BTC / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

Why is this even posted in this thread? Isn't this supposed to be about the Monarch?

tbcoin

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Inaba on August 28, 2013, 03:52:19 PM

.....

But lets go back to the USD assessment. The only way your figures work out is if you have 100% prediction ability or you use hindsight, neither of which are considered acceptable investing methodologies.

Once again, your entire premise is flawed. If you (or anyone) were so good at predicting the bitcoin price back then, why are you not a multi-billionaire? If you knew BTC was going to go up, especially as much as it did, why were you not mortgaging the house, selling your mother and pimping out your cats and dogs to buy BTC? You'd be an @#$%@% idiot not to... yet you didn't, why?

Hindsight investing is great, except it's a bunch of shit, which is why comparing the price in BTC of anything in August 2012 to something in 2013 is a bunch of shit.

I'm not a BFL hater, but I recognize that many of us buy your equipment (in addition to buy bitcoin obviously) precisely because we expected this fast revaluation and your initial delivery date was in an acceptable margin to take advantage of it. You have failed and of course that every dollar we spend on your equipment instead of buying bitcoin represents a great loss.

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

I follow most of your posts particularly the analyses you have done and they do allow a buyer to gauge what is actually important. Wish we had subform for this information... as well as place where the makers of hardware and buyers of hardware could communicate more effectively. Obvious shouting people down does not help it just causes more confusion. It is really time people stop doing that.

Thanks for the valuable info D&T.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: Bicknellski on August 28, 2013, 04:06:48 PM

This information is valuable to a buyer. Death and Taxes can you start a new thread to point this out... self moderated and keep the trolls off it.

No. That sounds like a full time job.

However someone can quote it if they like.

PuertoLibre

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1003

How do we make a thread self moderated? Where are the options for that?

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 28, 2013, 03:17:27 PM

Well ASICMiner just gave mini rig buyers a punch in the gut.

Buy from BFL in August 2012. 1x mini-rig 1.5 TH/s @ 3000 BTC
Buy from ASICMiner in August 2013. 120x Eruptor Blades 1.5 TH/s @ 420 BTC
So buy from ASICMiner a year later, no pre-order stress, product will ship in days, spend 86% less, get the same hashing power and receive it sooner.

Things move fast in the mining world so specs only matter if the company can deliver as advertised when advertised. Those that trusted BFL @ 65nm paid the price, now they want to tell you 28nm will be different.

on edit: Fixed a typo 120 boards not 20. The typo seems obvious to me. 1,500 GH/s / 1.25 GH/s = 120 (not 20) boards. 420 BTC / 3.5 BTC = 120 (not 20) boards.

This information is valuable to a buyer. Death and Taxes can you start a new thread to point this out... self moderated and keep the trolls off it.

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3071

Isn't it a common truism that those that are obsessed with insulting and belittling others are just reflecting how insecure they are? It's like constantly confirming to themselves and other observers that they're the smart and virtuous person, by over-exaggerating other people's flaws by way of contrast.

Just saying Grin

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

It be better if there were a section or subforum where standards are important.

Where information is unbiased and to the point this will further degrade into a shouting match and the original information will be lost again but I guess that is what is supposed to happen... no can get the information because with the right information the consumer can make an informed choice.

Maybe it is time we held everyone to a set of standards so that the community can be served in these forums as opposed to be shouted at with a stream of confusion.

Topic: Old BFL buyers vs new asicminer prices - page 5. (Read 5498 times)