No discernible dissenting opinions that I can see.
It is, what it is.
Topic: Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL) - page 10. (Read 15306 times)
So far, Bad Bear and Maged (Global Moderators) are at the very least on the same page.
No discernible dissenting opinions that I can see.
It is, what it is.
No discernible dissenting opinions that I can see.
It is, what it is.
No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
How about for failing to pay up on bets posted on this forum?
No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
Does selling raw chips and offering people to "upgrade" their fully functional miner orders to useless chips count as progress ?
No company deserves it more, especially that grimy weasel Inaba
You seem to think we're private detectives, or the cops. How are we supposed to know what they're doing? Open an investigation? Flash our moderator badge and hand over our BITCOINTALK.ORG warrant? If people feel comfortable leaving their money with them, that's fine and dandy by me, who the hell are we to stop them?
This is part of the unspoken social contract I mistakenly assumed we had with forum administrators, with the hopes you were good shepherds of this community.
I see this is not the case.
Laissez-faire indeed.
Don't worry BadBear, I'm doing your work for you.
Stay tuned.
"Social Contract"? I guess I didn't see any social contract listed in the terms and conditions for the forum when I signed up. Mind pointing that out to me?
BFL are not "scammers" they're "disappointers". You were disappointed by them, and now you want the forum and its moderators to go forth and punish them on your behalf. They're not going to do it, so you're going to waste the time of the courts to try and force them to rinse the sand out of your vagina for you. You don't want moderators or rule of law, you want a wet nurse.
BFL has repeatedly missed target dates. OK, frustrating and disappointing. But if you don't like it, get a refund. It's not a "scam" if you're free to get your money back at any point. I hope the courts fine you for your epic levels of stupidity.
You seem to think we're private detectives, or the cops. How are we supposed to know what they're doing? Open an investigation? Flash our moderator badge and hand over our BITCOINTALK.ORG warrant? If people feel comfortable leaving their money with them, that's fine and dandy by me, who the hell are we to stop them?
This is part of the unspoken social contract I mistakenly assumed we had with forum administrators, with the hopes you were good shepherds of this community.
I see this is not the case.
Laissez-faire indeed.
Don't worry BadBear, I'm doing your work for you.
Stay tuned.
This is a forum, not a police station. Or a nursery for that matter.
A forum, yes. The biggest Bitcoin forum there is. And because of this we do have some sort of responsibility.
Bitcoin continuously takes hits because of scumbags. Giving a Scammer tag to scumbags shows the community: "It is not OK with us!".
Whats interesting is that if I follow a parallel scenario to the BFL route, I could very well amass 300 BTC from buyers on BitCoinTalk.org
...Then due with as I please for many months (investing, gambling, whatever) and if I am lucky, when my customer(s) become irate. Return to them what they are due.
My benefits from doing this are that I borrowed 300 BTC from the community, made actual income money with it, but failed to live up to expectations for many months. (many months = more than 4)
I can still come out smelling absolutely clean in the eyes of the Mods and Admins by simply returning to the buyers what was theirs minus whatever that income generated or the promises I meant to keep....and I'll never get a SCAMMER Tag.
Why?
Because....that is okay. I got mine, my customers got theirs (minus my promises to keep) and I will never get a Scammer Tag. Why?
Because that is okay as a standard on BitCoinTalk. Am I right?
...Then due with as I please for many months (investing, gambling, whatever) and if I am lucky, when my customer(s) become irate. Return to them what they are due.
My benefits from doing this are that I borrowed 300 BTC from the community, made actual income money with it, but failed to live up to expectations for many months. (many months = more than 4)
I can still come out smelling absolutely clean in the eyes of the Mods and Admins by simply returning to the buyers what was theirs minus whatever that income generated or the promises I meant to keep....and I'll never get a SCAMMER Tag.
Why?
Because....that is okay. I got mine, my customers got theirs (minus my promises to keep) and I will never get a Scammer Tag. Why?
Because that is okay as a standard on BitCoinTalk. Am I right?
You seem to think we're private detectives, or the cops. How are we supposed to know what they're doing? Open an investigation? Flash our moderator badge and hand over our BITCOINTALK.ORG warrant? If people feel comfortable leaving their money with them, that's fine and dandy by me, who the hell are we to stop them? People ask for refunds, they get them back. If they stop getting them back, or BFL disappears, then it's time for a scammer tag.
This is a forum, not a police station. Or a nursery for that matter.
No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
Wah wah waaaaaahhhhh.
Well, kids, I guess you're just gonna have to TROLL HARDER.
Good luck with your "formal legal complaint", xian, you silly cunt.
Now I could redo my scenario to fit exactly the BFL scenario.
And if what Maged said is the unanimous consensus among administration. I could very well say I got the nod of "it is okay by us".
If not, then let us hear *any* dissenting opinion. If none dissent on that opinion, then I can very well assume there is a way around the scammer tag.
"Take funds as you will, promise everything under the stars but even if you deliver nothing of substance. Make absolutely sure to return what the buyer are owed. Everything is fine by us. Whatever you made from that funding is yours to keep."
Someone...please give dissent on this opinion or everyone silently agrees this is "okay".
And if what Maged said is the unanimous consensus among administration. I could very well say I got the nod of "it is okay by us".
If not, then let us hear *any* dissenting opinion. If none dissent on that opinion, then I can very well assume there is a way around the scammer tag.
"Take funds as you will, promise everything under the stars but even if you deliver nothing of substance. Make absolutely sure to return what the buyer are owed. Everything is fine by us. Whatever you made from that funding is yours to keep."
Someone...please give dissent on this opinion or everyone silently agrees this is "okay".
Whats interesting is that if I follow a parallel scenario to the BFL route, I could very well amass 300 BTC from buyers on BitCoinTalk.org
...Then do with as I please for many months (investing, gambling, whatever) and if I am lucky, when my customer(s) become irate. Return to them what they are due.
My benefits from doing this are that I borrowed 300 BTC from the community, made actual income money with it, but failed to live up to expectations for many months. (many months = more than 4)
I can still come out smelling absolutely clean in the eyes of the Mods and Admins by simply returning to the buyers what was theirs minus whatever that income generated or the promises I meant to keep....and I'll never get a SCAMMER Tag.
Why?
Because....that is okay. I got mine, my customers got theirs (minus my promises to keep) and I will never get a Scammer Tag. Why?
Because that is okay as a standard on BitCoinTalk. Am I right?
...Then do with as I please for many months (investing, gambling, whatever) and if I am lucky, when my customer(s) become irate. Return to them what they are due.
My benefits from doing this are that I borrowed 300 BTC from the community, made actual income money with it, but failed to live up to expectations for many months. (many months = more than 4)
I can still come out smelling absolutely clean in the eyes of the Mods and Admins by simply returning to the buyers what was theirs minus whatever that income generated or the promises I meant to keep....and I'll never get a SCAMMER Tag.
Why?
Because....that is okay. I got mine, my customers got theirs (minus my promises to keep) and I will never get a Scammer Tag. Why?
Because that is okay as a standard on BitCoinTalk. Am I right?
No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
Just curious - what qualifies as 'several months' and when do you start that clock running (from)?
I've got no skin in this game, but it looks like they already qualify from reading your terse response.
No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
Just curious - what qualifies as 'several months' and when do you start that clock running (from)?
I've got no skin in this game, but it looks like they already qualify from reading your terse response.
Why not call it what it is? A "Potential Scam".
with optional Warning:
Suckers Investors should check deliveries at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ before ordering to establish what year their order may arrive.
with optional Warning:
Oh the irony.
User RIPPLE wants to call something a "Potential Scam".
haha
+1 to OP.
smoothie, I'll change my name to Raspberry Ripple ... then we can make little smoothies together.
I for one completely think that BFL has produced chips, but instead of sending them to customers they are currently mining with them. I made a post a couple days back about it noting that (and I know this sounds far fetched) but a friend of a friend got a tour of the place and swears that they are mining with customer purchased equipment. So not only will you eventually receive your device, but it will be no longer useful since difficulty will have gone way up, and it will be used.
This is my personal opinion, note I do not have a pre order with them.
This is my personal opinion, note I do not have a pre order with them.
There are a lot of shitty things floating around bitcoin, and bfl is one of them.
However, a scammer tag is inappropiate.
They are simply patological liers. As of now, they didn't stole anyone's money.
However, a scammer tag is inappropiate.
They are simply patological liers. As of now, they didn't stole anyone's money.
No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
No one asks to give BFL a Scammer tag for being late. Shits happens.
But that's not the point here. And you know that.
Constantly stringing people along with false promises - and blatant lies - is what qualifies for a Scammer tag. Shady business tactics is what qualifies for a Scammer tag.
Those 500 people that voted to give BFL a Scammer tag surely didn't do that solely based on the fact that BFL is late. And you know that.
Ignoring those people is a slap in the face of this community.
Someones cranky they didn't get an early pre-order in 
The Forum needs a range of tags.
Including a "stupidity" tag.
Including a "stupidity" tag.
No, they will not receive a scammer tag over the matter of their ASICs being late until several months go by with no progress. Stop asking.
Thank you, voice of reason.
Jump to: