Topic: Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL) - page 7. (Read 15323 times)

Hey slok How much do you get paid for an ad? I would like to try it.

I don't think my Jala will make much soon at it is already going down to 14 dollars a day in 2 weeks after re-target.

Slok, your postings are, as usual, full of half-truths - and blatant lies.


I did open quite a few accounts over the past few months - not on Bitcointalk, but on BFL forums. Because as soon I post some inconvenient facts my messages get censored & my account gets deleted. Game of cat and mouse. I hope I saved at least some poor souls from falling for their "Order Now" & "in 14 days from now" scam.



And I am sure a lot of you BFL shills voted "no" with all your fake accounts. So what? I'd be quite happy if one of the Mods could publish a list of all the users that participated in that poll.



Blatant lies. IMHO you see a "Frizz" in each and every "suspicious" account - and blame it all on me. Paranoid much?

I challenge you: Provide some evidence for your accusations. If you prefer to continue this dispute publicly, feel free to do so. But please open a new thread for it - because the topic of this one is whether or not BFL should get a scammer tag.


True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.

Quite some psychopathic behavior if I may say so.

By the way: What to think of someone with a signature like yours:

Mentally disordered fanboy? Or paid shill ...

 Ugh. Doxing and harassing IRL is never cool. Poor form, SLok

True, because you did. You bolstered that you tracked down my identity / doxed me [note: after me posting on BFLs Facebook page as 'Frizz Supertramp' ... you must be a real mastermind. not]. And you wrote that you sent messages to all my Facebook contacts and warned them about me.

Frizz23, aka Frizz Supertramp, you have over 50 accounts under different names here, ...

... your poll is a fraud, because I'm sure you used the lot to vote "yes".

You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures.

You even accused me of harassing your family, falsely.

Frizz23, aka Frizz Supertramp, you have over 50 accounts under different names here, your poll is a fraud, because I'm sure you used the lot to vote "yes".
You tried to cancel orders that weren't yours, you tried to get refunds for orders that weren't yours.
You pretended being a customer that had his orders lost, being refused a refund after requesting for it, you post pulled out of context BFL statements and bend them to your will, you make up accusations with falsified facts, dates and figures. You even accused me of harassing your family, falsely.

Sure. In order for the scammer tag to have any value at all, people need to see that we only use it in the absolute clearest of cases. When someone sees a scammer tag, they will then know that they shouldn't even try trading with that person. If we used the scammer tag in this case, 22% of the forum would believe that a scammer tag has no value and would ignore it in the future.

We're happy to accept ads from anyone as long as they don't contain "lies, misrepresentation, or inappropriate language" as outlined in our ad auction guidelines. Personally, I think that it would be better not to have anti-BFL ads at all since that will just bring more attention to them. Instead, it might be better to out-bid them and, if you win, re-sell your slots to the next lowest non-BFL bidder for their bid amount and consider the difference as a donation to the forum. If BFL keeps bidding beyond what you can afford, at least you are costing them more money.

If BFL keeps bidding beyond what you can afford, at least you are costing them more money.

Biggest excuse and sappiest thing I've ever read for a business.

Many comments already made highlight why this is beyond acceptable. I really liked the McDonalds line comparison too which was made to defend BFL, but actually is inversed. That applies to almost every business... ever. Do you ever see a restaurant skip out on a table because "it would take too long to cook their food" as opposed to someone else?

"so after seeing the almost incessant carrying on about Jalapenos being shipped before Little Singles/Singles/Minirigs"
This goes SO beyond just jalapenos shipping before Singles and Minirigs. This goes back to FGPA and the amount of delays BFL had back then. They were terrible then, promised to shape up, had people clawing at their hands going "it will be better with ASIC, they'll be on time this time around!" Then, 5 months go by without a word other than "soon its coming soon, we got this". No information, left in the dark. Everyone. Jalapenos, Singles, Minirigs alike. Then, they miss their target shipment. Not just in October, but in November - December - January - Feb. With little explanation as to why. "Oh we had problems with X". So what steps did you take to fix it? "Oh, it was these people in China, they're holding us up in fab. Oh, these chips have problems. Oh, this power issue."

I recall "Its ok, we'll ship in April. Excepted April, late April, due May". Its now June. Only this past week has Jalapenos gone out in a significant number. And some Jalapeno customers are GETTING BENEFIT UPGRADES.

If you honestly have the audacity to defend a company that has screwed your pooch this many times over, seriously, get a grip. Excuses all down the line with deceiving information and complete blackouts. "Get your important announces off of a convoluted forum people for thousand dollar products! Forget emails. We don't do bulk emails." I've seen startup companies made up of 2-4 college kids with products that are $25~ have more communication and respect for their customers. Gaming companies and startups get axed every other month because of tiny screw ups and because they don't meet deadlines. Customers get up in arms about it and they win. A lot.
To get any news about BFL on a consistent basis, I have to subscribe to an UNNOFFICIAL TWITTER FEED. That is disgusting!

Stop trying to defend them with silly nonsense about keeping up appearances and "keeping good faith by releasing a product sooner rather than later." Thats the TIP OF THE ICEBERG.
BFL screws us over time and time again and we just let it slide with these excuses. I'm one of them too. I can't believe I let myself sit this long and do nothing. I used to defend BFL too. I never thought it would end up being this bad.

We're approaching the year of when people purchased originally. People were told this would be done no later than half a year after purchased. Then months went by without any information, or at least very little of it. Excuses

EDIT:
Another great thing BFL did was say "we hired people to work through the weekend to get these Jalapenos ready and shipped! ITS GOING TO BE A LONG WEEKEND GUYS!!! )
That never happened either. In fact, it was approximately 2 weeks after that before good ol' Josh ever responded with any significant update. And you think thats okay.

Care to explain?

22% against giving them the scammer tag is an even stronger message.

Again, the majority does not make these decisions.

In all honesty I am surprised how you moderators are ill-equipped to diffuse the mess here even after giving a solution that would benefit the forum and put you back in a neutral position. After all that said you poke the hornets nest again with a comment like this.

Embarrassed 

btw I selected no for scammer tag. What does that say about the solution I put forth.

We didn't. All we did was ask the moderators to give them a scammer tag.

553 users voted yes, 154 voted no so far.

A 78% majority is quite a strong message one might think.

1. This is too practical of a solution
2. This post has no cursing
3. This post lacks non-standard text size
4. This post provides a proactive solution to a problem

I think it's safe to say this is in the wrong thread! yuk yuk yuk

Back to the point. Fuck BFL, I want my coffee warmer!

People who paid 2k bitcoins, expecting to get their product and make a ROI of 30 days or less for a $30,000 product.
Now valued at $250,000 worth of bitcoin, and make their original ROI in how long?


Seems like a pretty legit way to make some money, collect $30,000 in bitcoin, wait for the price to go up, refund in usd keep the $250,000 in bitcoin.

Moderators:

The image of your authority is in question, not by all I don't believe it is your job to police morality of businesses. You do need to be neutral in all matters. However you like most business need money to run the forum and should be obvious to all here. I suggested before that you allow other in the community that are concerned to buy ad space to warn others. Putting an announcement that although you take on adverts from companies you are not condoning any company or have any opinion on any matter. Closing threads should follow the rules of profanity and excessive hate crimes and porn and the rules you have outlined.

BFL supporters:

You have your opinions and the right to voice them. Please consider all facts and if you choose to not to head the warning or you believe they're not true its fine. For me at least is not an issue besides its your money.

BFL non supporters:

You need to understand that the rules of the forum need to be followed and BFL has the right to advertise here just like every other company however you all have the right to advertise as well. Instead of voicing your concerns bashing moderators incurring resistance to your cause. Work with them in a civil manner and be on equal footing with BFL's right to advertise. CROWED FUND ad space here and support the community along with this great forum. Take the forum back for the community.

To the community:

If you have a concern about the issue of BFL and would like to support ad space to have this ask a representative from the community to escrow a fund and lets move forward with this. If a moderator wishes to take this on please voice your intention and lets restore the image of bitcoin and this forum as a community of like mined individuals aspiring to change the idea of commerce and the future.

Lets get this done. I may not have much but I am willing to donate to a solution.

It's not the moderators fault people are stupid enough to pre-order this stuff in the first place despite knowing their history, this complaint would be like if a group got together about weight loss advertisements on piratebay and demanded the advertisements got taken down because they didn't work and were a scam. You can't protect people from their own stupidity, governments have been trying that for years and no amount of warning stickers, tags and censorship ( which is what you're advocating ) will stop stupid people from doing stupid things.

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, I think the only one who was doing anything useful about this situation was that guy who was actively advertising and warning people about BFL ( Was it TradeFortress? Can't remember ) that's a better spend of time than trying to force the moderators to remove a source of income that won't really affect much in the first place beyond their own wallets. People just need to shut the fuck up and admit there are stupid people out there who don't know any better and they're going to pay for it no matter what we do, I call it Darwinism.

Stop blaming the moderators for other peoples stupidity, ...