Topic: [**OPEN**]R2B:HashFast + Host, Dbl. HashRate Upgrade, $43, 10-13GH/s MPP - page 2. (Read 35751 times)

An official response from our attorney:

"Redacted"
3/31/14

Thanks man.

Good thing we ended up *not* buying even more HF miners like we had discussed.

BTW, How's your suit going?

https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/450658156750704640
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #rLOgRkrDG9mSLWuf

http://imgur.com/a/OLbc8#0

+1

DZ, please try to communicate regularly. It really makes a difference to know you're still around and working on this. So disappointed it didn't work out.

Hey DZ,

Good luck with the exams and job search :-)
Just ignore the trolls under the bridge.

Thanks for the update, we really appreciate all the hard work!
It's too bad it didn't work out for all and we all got filthy rich but hey we tried right :-)

if you could post a small update say every 2 weeks that would be great,  even if it's "no news yet".

Hi guys,

Haven't run off with the money (there still is no money or BTC from our HF refund). I'd never do that. Just super bummed from all the negativity, the trolling, the bickering, manufacturers failing us over and over, and me working 7 days a week for months doing this as a second job for peanuts (actually negative not-so peanuts). I just got so sick of it esp. since I was working for less than free and couldn't take it any more.

This was an experiment in democracy in mining and trying to deal with the inevitable network difficulty rise but I/we've surrendered the pre-order GB market when we used to offer many of the best pre-order deals around because most of these manufacturers can't meet their deadlines. Others can deal with high risk pre-orders but I'm done with pre-orders from ASIC mfgs.

I've been exploring other job options while trying to cram for a particular Microsoft cert for a job I'm trying to get. I've cut back my forum presence but I'm still looking at opportunities in the cryptoeconomy.

WRT case news: these things take time but the Texas court granted a TRO against HF for about 218 BTC so regardless of how the case turns out they've been ordered to hold onto BTC of this amount till the end of the case.

BTW, from the email leak thread going on over email: even people that have asked for USD refunds from HF have had to wait for over a month in some cases.

Hi! I may sound like a broken recorder now, any movement on this issue?

May I suggest changing the thread title to closed?

Hi folks.
Any update?
- Litigation against HF was filed in Texas.
What district was this case filed in?

Let's see: since the last post in a R1-4 thread.

- Zero updates to our "Customer Support Ticket" sent in early January demanding a full BTC and USD refund for R1-4 via a paralegal, where appropriate.
- Litigation against HF was filed in Texas.
- We're meeting w/ the attorneys to go over this litigation this week.
- The January bill came in and it was ugly.
- Claims of damages seem to make sense as we all have had lost opportunity costs due to their deceptive advertising and outright fraudulent behavior (FTC regs. state that if product is delayed you *must* give the customer the opportunity for a full refund.) No promises on this but I'm firm that if damages are awarded that all would share in this (minus atty. fees) based on their percentage of ownership of that round's miners.
- Also, I can confirm that one of the D&L attorneys received an inquiry from a community rep re: legal precedents in cases like this.

That's about it...oh and a passive aggressive email from HF a little while back finally confirming payment on one of the R1-2B upgrades paid months ago with a bolded msg. at the bottom saying something to the effect of: "ALL SALES FINALS. NO REFUNDS."

Its been several weeks now , any news?



Yes  I would like to contact the law offices please PM me the contact details,

Best Regards
 

You guys do what you want,
DZ, Thanks for sticking up for us that paid in USD on R1. That means allot to me.
My advice to your co-op is handle your matters fairly, I agree that HF was scammy, the lack of communication in this case with our co-op lead me to distrust DZ's group unfairly. For that I apologize.
Thank you for your explanation on that DZ and I do hope you get well soon.

Thomas can own what ever he wants, I don't know him and he does not know me.
His response to Bakal was unprofessional, that rubbed me the wrong way. I don't deal with my customers in that way because I would loose their business.
DZ thinks thats due to a smartphone, I think its a lack of empathy for customers but I have no power to do anything in this co-op as I am not a member of the central committee.

Id just like my money back, for most of you in the first world its peanuts, for me its not but thats once again my problem and not yours.

Personally Id prefer to be mining but I do understand peoples anger at HF and the newly formed companies interest to profit off a BTC refund. Makes financial sense.

My experience as a regional IT director of a multinational company gives me a bit of insight as to how corporations deal with refunds and damages. My experience tells me they will try to delay any payments even if a case is successful but once again, Its not my place to have an opinion.
 
If we do get a refund, please do not send it to me my share in USD as the original R1 transaction that I made was at 40% over the price asked due to paypals low exchange rate charges and national/international taxes.

Im out.. Good luck guys

Also feel I should mention Thomas owns a large chunck of these machines... so his opinion on the matter does carry some weight.

+1 for your response.  FTFY a bit.   

All of us were dealt an extremely shitty hand here and I feel that DZ has handled it very well... kudos!

I'm rooting for all the legal action from all miners involved against these scammers as this has indeed become a disturbing trend in BTC mining and this is the best way to stop it.

imho the miners who rolled over and cheerfully accepted a screwing from scamfast just keep enabling this type of unethical behavior.
why can't they understand that a better investment would have been to buy BTC and hodl instead of buying an overpriced and a 3 month late delivered miner.   

R2 was paid in USD, R2B the upgrade module was paid in BTC.




I'm only human. I'm not a deity. I'm trying to fix this mess *and* work for the will of the majority. I admit it takes a toll on me too to have to be in the middle of all this. I wish these miners had been mining for months. I want people to get along. I want customers to be happy. It's a role I created but I admit it does get uncomfortable to have to be a mediator sometimes.

To wit, for R1-4:

- I *still* have 1.14 ASICminer shares that John K. is *still* holding as collateral for what were supposed to be R1 miner payouts. They were worth $500 at the time I sent them to him as a "Surety Bond" for payouts. I don't even want to *think* about all the dividends I've lost out on since then, but it's a nice fraction of a BTC.

- I spent $525 mostly out of my own pockets for what was supposed to be the R1 UPS via philipma1957 because I didn't account for UPS costs in the AT COST Group Buy shares; which as at cost, were an innovation at that time in August.

- Along with Thomas and -R- paid hundreds so far for legal counsel on the HF impasse and failure to deliver on explicit promises.

- Would've pocketed a mere 0.25% Management Fee for R1-4 as my share of management fees.

I'm a highly paid IT engineer and you guys have been getting my services for half a year in my free time almost for free (actually for free for the reasons listed above); the management fees I made in 6 months are less than the donations I've made on behalf of these Rounds). I spent a ton of effort working with the attorneys to get the details straight.

I'm not sure what more you'd have me to as I'm in the most Red out of anyone for the reasons above. I put a lot of money down to be able to deliver you guys these at-cost deals, and I continue to put money down, along with the rest of the leaders, to try to get legal recourse to get full BTC refunds which is what the majority wanted overwhelmingly.

There isn't/wasn't a better GB setup/value on the forums available at that time and everything would've been peachy if they had just simply delivered on time or even a little late. HashFast tricked us, but what pisses me off even more is how they've turned miners against other miners.

Bob, I don't think "you" are scamming us, I just think its stupid to hold out for a refund at this point as they are shipping. + we bought R2 in USD so why is it mentioned in the letter requesting a BTC refund?

Second place, even if we tried to sue them we have no case, they would say that they are shipping batch 1.

No judge in the world would side with us (.)

This was forced on them by a huge effort by many unhappy buyers, with the threat of endless litigation.

I was one of the first that said we should request a full refund, half the reason I even bought into this was due to the promise that we would be refunded in BTC for our original purchase (R1) only to find out at the last minute that would not be respected for myself and several other members.
In other words I and others got hashfasted. Thomas's reaction to valid requests for information and blanket
statements from DZ are the cause of my angry reaction and lack of trust.

DZ I appreciate your vote in your group, I too have permanent back injuries and have to care for a diabetic child who needs an insulin pump (unavailable) in a 3rd world country so my sympathy only goes so far. Thats not your problem but still, I feel for you and wish you the best.
You all made a corporate decision that I don't agree with, you should have said nothing about your re-payments if received so we can agree to disagree on that.

That aside
 
There has been a serious lack of communication with this whole story.  DZ you are to blame in part, have to go there.
I have been on both sides of this type of situation before, only difference is the small sum of money we are talking about here.

I would consider keeping Thomas in a basement if you want to communicate with investors (not just me that thinks this). If it was me, as a former IT director and current director of an international project I would fire him on the spot but lucky for thomas thats your choice.



Thomas, This is an unacceptable communication.

This should have read....

Hello Bakal ( makes it look like you care)
We have attempted many times to enter into dialog with Hashfast, we have sent them numerous communications, emails, attempted to call, skype but unfortunately they refuse to enter into any type of communication with our administration. This has forced us to take up legal councel who has entered into contact with hashfast and force a court action in order to get a full refund for our group members. We appreciate your patience in this matter and will try to resolve this  as promptly as possible.
Thank you for your patience, we will update ......

See! This way you don't look like a rank amateur snot nose kid.

Hashfast should be contacted personally, I dont like there equipment offer any more then you but we have no choice for batch 1 orders.

For the Sierra orders you might have a leg to stand on and if you can all the power to you.



Fix this mess

 

Woah, hey now, we're all angry but that's still doesn't mean that we should throw fraud accusations of trusted forum members around without proof. Thomas has handled well over 1000BTC for the co-op so far, without a single instance of fraud or theft, to the best of my knowledge. No co-op member, and we're talking about hundreds of them by now, has ever accused him of taking their USD or BTC and not getting BTC payouts for miners that were delivered or on hand.

And I would never take the money and run, because I like living in Hawaii, and would lose my IT security job and live behind bars if I did that.

Rob is one of our business attorneys. You are more than welcome to contact them to confirm that Cypher Enterprises has retained their services with regards to this matter. I'm the CTO and a co-founder of Cypher Enterprises. We had to assign it this way to fit this in with the business we had just about finished setting up and it saved the co-op time/money because we already had them on retainer and we had already done a lengthy search for highly competent legal assistance.

What I'm sensing here is frustration and anger. You feel screwed by HF and now you feel screwed by my co-op.

I feel your pain. Hell, I'm in pain. Haven't been here much because I've been dealing with serious recent health issues from old work injuries and an old employer's new insurance company's sudden decision to deny my work comp even though its been going on for 15 years and nothing changed except for their desire to pinch pennies by withholding necessary medical help. Now I have to prep a case against my former employer just to get back the workcomp they're legally supposed to provide, if its work related. I don't normally bitch and moan about my permanent injuries, but you guys deserve to know where I've been, with everything going on.

Anyway: getting back to USD refunds.

This co-op has gotten so big, that I obviously can't run it by myself. I'm in business with bobsag3, -Redacted-, and thomas_s. because things had worked out well (albeit with bumps along the way). Miner Hosting LLC, is now a sister sub-company in Cypher Enterprises which is the umbrella company we founded, and we run the entire company like a democracy. R2-4 was slated to be hosted at the co-op primary facility (of which there are now 4 different vetted US miner hosting sites from members contacting me for this).

I voted for full BTC refunds FWIW. But it was decided that this would set a bad precedent and would leave us on the hook for the USD/BTC differential for any future and current GBs. The businesses we set up would be easily taken advantage of by those hoping to just park their USD in BTC for a Pre-order GB for a few weeks, speculating on BTC's rise. Anyone could say: "R1-4 got BTC refunds for USD, what about us? What makes them so special?" Besides the extra time/labor involved: We would have to keep a good sized chunk of BTC from somewhere on tap because of this, instead of invested elsewhere.

- Also, please keep it civil. I founded the co-op so we could cooperate together and, hopefully, all make dough together. Thomas can get a bit snippy, but he does have to deal with tons of the same questions for things that are usually included in the description, and his business integrity has never come into question.

Of note: the BJs that are out now are a sad, sad shell of what they could've been if they had shipped in late Oct. and early Nov. as they advertised so prominently. That letter was sent when there were 2 confirmed units in the wild that weren't even fully working, with no indication that they finally nailed something that they could ship in volume.

They're essentially defective and nearly worthless in comparison to "what could've been." None of the BJs or Sierras will likely ever return full BTC let alone USD ROI in a year, unless 4x MPP was shipped with it, and I agree with gmaxwell, that they therefore sold us a defective product.

We have no check or no refunds to give out.
They have not comunicated with us, or our representation since the letter was sent.
If you think the letter is a lie, feel free to contact the firm to verify its legitimate.