Topic: [**OPEN**]R2B:HashFast + Host, Dbl. HashRate Upgrade, $43, 10-13GH/s MPP - page 3. (Read 35751 times)

So why are other people getting there units and we aren't?
If we paid in USD whats the problem?
Why would they single us out on "this" GB?
 
Why would you take 6k? because you could...


Did you offer to drop the case if they delivered?
I can pay a prison thug to write a fake letter too..

I could go on but I won't, drop the case and stop being so scammy.

R2, if a refund is issued will be refunded in the form of USD as the unit was ordered originally with USD.

The only real problem is HF has not sent anything, even a response to our refund request, we haven't even been given an option to take the units.

I have no need to steal $6,000, I get more than that at work and deal with  more than that on the DZMC payouts.

I am an investor in R2 and R2B.

Wow, let me give you a lesson in "commerce" then, its a 2 step plan.

Step one, drop the case dipshit and tell them that we are ok,
Step 2 say "sorry" we were mad but you could understand that given the delays.

I dont care about your fucking BTC, I paid cash and want the money or our machines! Why? because other people even angrier then us (whole machine customers) were given an option to cancel the check and receive the units. So that leads me to the question..
Did you spend the refund check already or are you punking us?

BTW I dont see you as an investor on the list, please correct me if Im wrong..
PS I don't give 0% interest loans and neither does anyone here in our community either..

Show the legal papers, prove that your great legal team exists (I don't think they do)
Show us the the letter you sent,

I don't want to be a part of any future scam or have my name involved in this.

We've shown them we do not want the miners and only want the BTC refund as we were originally promised.

http://hashfast.com/shipping-update-batch-1_jan23/
but our coop have no news no updates from the "leaders"

Hi! any news?

thank you

 Hi philipma1957,

Its a good point. This could drag on and for me its about being fair. Hashfast were the ones that agreed to refund in BTC if we paid that way (we did).
 
We have something close to $30,000 in total HF orders counting all the baby jets and sierras I am sure that DZ has the exact numbers.

We didn't have a vote on the refund proposal from Hashfast, this was a mistake. Now we might be in the position that we have to litigate just to get anything back.
 

So the arguments for a vote are up to now.

A) We accept the refund on HF's terms. Everyone gets paid in USD.

B) We take them to court at the expense of the co-op management, pay investors back in the form they paid.

C) We take them to court at our own expense, pay investors back a percentage based on shares owned of the total refund less costs.

D) we wait for the equipment to show up.


Fair?

DZ, thats why buying from companies who have 0 track record is a risky deal.
They came with a too good to be true story, we all fell for it but lets put things into perspective.

At the time of the original offer, we agreed to compensate "you" for the price charged in BTC in your national currency (USD). I will have to agree with kaz911 that we put our faith in you to take our money and exchange it to BTC as you agreed. This is the part of escrow that you handled for a fee.

The product purchased was listed in BTC, we agreed to that price and bought shares. At that time there was no website, no TOS.

Using your logic, I should be refunded BTC for the R2 as thats what I put in as most people did.

You are also a shareholder in both of these GB's so as I see it you have already lost 100's of dollars.
I also agree that legal costs should not be paid out of your pocket nor should it be charged to those wise people who did not invest in HashFast technologies. Using the same reasoning there is no reason for anyone other then the HashFast investor sub-group should profit from any gains we make with a refund.

As co-op members we have the right to determine how our collectively purchased equipment will be managed.

Example, if we had bought and received equipment in October as promised and "I" decided that it would be a good idea to sell our boxes now (Jan 2014) and start mining BBQ coins on my drunk uncles i386 that we could buy with the proceeds, the investor group that invested in the baby jets would probably vote me down.
I doubt that anyone who bought KnC shares would want to be bothered with that vote as they have no dividend from our equipment.

People who did not invest in hashfast equipment have no say, sorry but they do not pay me and I am not interested in there opinion as anything more then advise.
 
 
People who did invest in Hashfast equipment and want a refund should join together and have a vote per share. This includes you DZ, myself, philipma1957, firsttimeuser, etc..

If you feel that you should be compensated for the extra work, headache, expense and logistics involved I would agree but we can work that out together.

 
 

Interesting reading on the high costs of setting up arbitration and how it can all fall apart or cost a bundle (found on the CH forum):

http://www.citizen.org/documents/ACF110A.PDF

mazza you've got 2 in R1 and 2 in R2. Shoot me a PM to remind me of your upgrade shares if you bought those. I have 90+ pages of PMs so far (and we do hundreds of support tix) & searching through this PM system with that many pages isn't very fun.

Thanks.

When we do site orders, we refund in the form that was sent for accounting purposes, whether that was USD or BTC, as that's what's expected in the world of commerce, that you get what you sent. This *is* a special case however. I will take this under advisement with the other co-op leaders because I don't rule this co-op as a dictatorship among the leaders, even though I founded it; we'd have to agree on this. I can't promise anything and we'd need a majority vote for this to carry.

I'll also note a couple of things I mentioned in the R15/16 thread: we've already paid hundreds each out of our own pockets to get a battle tested legal team that's not afraid of HF's lawyer (who seems to intimidate people on the CH HF forum thread) to represent us. After half a year of doing this and offering the lowest cost GB shares around: It literally *costs* me money to offer these low cost GB shares to co-op members as the management fees that I've made on 8 rounds in 6 months of co-op operations don't even cover these legal fees I already incurred just for the refunds. I meant what I said about not price gouging my fellow miners when I founded the co-op, and I've purposely had a tiny cut of the management fee to help keep share price and hosting costs as low as possible.

If things fall apart and we go to arbitration those are also some massive upfront costs related to that we haven't tried to fundraise funds for. In this case, we'd probably team up with other forum members to do a mass arbitration action to spread the pain of this expensive proposition.

  +1

Hey DZ, can you tell me if I am in R1 or R2? I sent the payment to your address in BTC, 29th August I think.

Hi DZ,

I must say I am disappointed in a refund in USD. I paid via eBay/Paypal for 2 shares - and paid for 1 upgrade via BTC. But what I paid for (and paid overprice for vs BTC rate at the time) was DZ services to convert the $165 into 1.55 BTC at the time. The group-buy documents says and I quote "I (DZ) do not intend to make a profit on it - I am doing this as a service". But taking the 6+? shares sold via Paypal and "confiscate" currency gains in the period for own the the rest of the Group Buy's profit - goes against the general line of agreement when it was done.  Taking 6 shares x 1.55 BTC = 10 BTC from some GB owners - and distribute to ONE person or the rest of the group - would give those persons a comparable PROFIT on the transaction.

I think to be fair - any refunds should be refunded in the % of what we own of the GB. Not what we initially paid. We have ALL taken the EXACT VALUE same risk for the exact same time. If we get USD back - I'm happy getting refund in USD for my shares on equal footing with other owners even if that means a loss for me. If the GB gets BTC back - everyone has gotten the BTC currency gain - and everyone should be rewarded equally. Anything else would not be fair - and that refund policy would be in line with the language and intent used in the GB.

Great to hear that we are on our way to a refund and compliments on following this through.
Just a point of clarification, I paid R1 with USD and R2 +upgrades with BTC, as some others did.

The R1 invoice was billed using BTC so theoretically  we would be refunded the BTC value paid in Aug. 2013.
The R2 round was paid in USD but as I remember we paid the upgrade in BTC or am I wrong?

This can lead to a confusing situation 

We agreed to buy out the original R2 buyer in FIAT and we were billed in USD by HF so there is nothing we can do about that but R1 IMO should be paid out in the form we receive the refund - legal costs and escrow of course.

We invested in the co-op not the equipment. The co-op has done well, in part due to the original investors returning investment. That said we all knew this was a risk from the start and thats just part of the mining game.

Maybe the fairest way to do this would be to take all the HF batch 1 orders put them together and divide the total - costs and pay out the total divided per share purchased. I would love to get as much as I can out of any refund but we all got fooled by HF collectively. I would not mind getting a bit less back knowing that we all got compensated by HF..
 
This is by no means a critique but a suggestion I propose to DZ co-op members who invested in HashFast equipment.

Any ideas on this?

All is not quite lost, Bakal. [Info From R1 below]

UPDATE: They're forcing USD refunds on people that didn't request them if you missed that in the CH forum yesterday. If this is forced on us, we are *not* cashing this refund check worth about 1/8th of our orig. BTC sent for R1-4, and will consult with our legal team.

It was a major PITA to get all the evidence in place, and in chronological order for our attorneys but HashFast heard from our attorneys yesterday and we have an official support ticket in the system, FWIW. It's also been a drain on the co-op's energy to have to fight this in the middle of the move/expansion.

We're doing our best to get full BTC refunds for everyone that bought into R1-4 with Bitcoin (except for R2, which was orig. bought via Wire Transfer by someone else so it will be in USD; the upgrade R2B was paid in BTC).

To fight to get this full BTC refunds for us and to make sure we were represented by a battle tested legal team, we plan on deducting the legal costs among the 4 rounds. We estimate this cost to be about $250-300 at this time (could go up if we go to arbitration).

That would work out to about $2.50-$3 per R1-4 share (which includes upgrades for R1-2). The upside is: for those that bought GB shares with bitcoin, if we get our full BTC back from HashFast, even with this small deduction for legal expenses you'd be refunded 6-9x your USD value back from your original BTC purchase amount(s) depending on when you bought your GB shares.

If you paid in USD, these refund terms and legal fees don't apply, and we will send back the original USD amount(s) sent when our full refund arrives.

Hi DZ, thank you for your hardwork. so, technically, R2 buyers are in deeep pile of shit? can mining + btc rising still ROI? I know its speculating, but dont know what to say or feel anymore.

this hashfuck'd us is a mess. good luck to us.

Just to update you guys: we're seeking a refund on this.

They *still* haven't sent a tracking number for R2 which is the 64th paid miner rig IIRC, and the earlier of our two co-op HashFast Baby Jet orders.

- When its finally sent out by HF: Refunds for R2 will be in USD as R2 was paid by the original buyer we bought it from HF via a USD wire transfer.

- For R2B: we're fighting for a full BTC refund, as I believe we paid BTC for that, since it came later for this Batch 1 upgrade. I can't go into details too much, but I am fighting tooth and nail to get y'all this BTC full refund if its at all possible.

If we have to, we'll get whatever refunds we can and then build consensus on what to do next. HF is now on my naughty list and it remains to be seen if they can salvage that all-important rep it takes to be an offered miner rig in our co-op. There haven't been any DZ MC GBs on HF since R4, FWIW.

Anyway...

Merry Christmas everyone! If you celebrate or don't celebrate this holiday, my toast of good cheers to you and yours is still the same. I'm thankful for our customers and I'm thankful for you co-op members that have helped make this co-op the success it is today by helping us improve things over time and helping one another out with knowledge. 5 months ago I had no idea I'd form the biggest public co-op in the world for BTC mining.

It's an honor to be the founder and co-leader of a co-op full of so many like minded miners, and I'm both humbled by our success and very thankful to have met my co-leaders, which has resulted in round after round of world class values, and a crypto umbrella company founded upon the core of the DZ MC (with the co-op shielded as a sub-company).

Here's to a successful 2014!