Topic: ᴥᵜᴥ Oshi.io .ᴥᵜᴥ. A different online casino! .ᴥᵜᴥ. Choose your own bonus ᴥᵜᴥ - page 7. (Read 14381 times)

I am not really fond of this site. I guess it's not my type.

Yes it is interesting you can play free of cost you don't need a decisions or self thinking open your heart and come on to play. Because don't waste your time it is an opportunity.

Yes, it is time-consuming because you make vague and false statements!

1) Direx N.V. is incorporated in Curacao and therefore only those laws are relevant for Oshi casino!

Therefore, verifying depositors if the value of their deposit exceeds $2,000 is your personal despotism and not anyhow required by laws or authorities as you tried to explain us several times!

2) If you have what kind of suspicion?

If you did not check the identity of a depositor and did not compare his name with the list from Interpol and the value of his deposit did not exceed $2,500, how can you have a suspicion in regards to the deposits made?

3) O.k., so you do your arbitrary review not because you are obliged by Curacao laws or authorities, but because these verification limits are pretty typical for SoftSwiss.

In this case the solution is very simple: Avoid casinos on the SoftSwiss/Direx N.V. network.


No, I do not mix up gambling legislation and anti money laundering legislation!

Opposed to your false statement, both are criminal legislation, because when you operate without a valid license then you commit several criminal offenses.

In such cases you alse breached AML laws because you laundered illegal collected money from players.

Do you know the license conditions set by Curacao?

You say the main license holder (Direx N.V.) will then issue sub-licenses to white label partners, but Direx N.V. itself is a sub-license holder from Antillephone N.V. and not a main license holder!


The Antillephone N.V. License Validation page claims that Direx N.V. operates under the 8048/JAZ license issued to Antillephone N.V., but I asked if you have seen the physical license contract between Antillephone N.V. and Direx N.V.?

In addition, have you seen the physical license contract between the Government of Curacao and Antillephone N.V.?

I ask this because if Antillephone N.V. is not authorised to issue sub-licenses, then Direx N.V. has no valid license and then oshi.io also has no valid license!

The physical license contract is also very important, because it contains the conditions under which the licensee is allowed to legally operate.

Hence, if I want to operate an online casino legally, this is the first thing I want to see?


Oh yes, as you operate out of Curacao those laws are very well relevant for you!

Simple, you are not obliged to apply anti money laundering laws from any given country territory.

You are only obliged to fulfil the AML laws of the country where oshi.io is incorporated = Curacao and therefore the origin of the deposit is irrelevant.

You take deposits from several countries where it is not allowed by local legislation and this confirms that you do not care about the laws of those countries.

Unfortunately I'm spending a little too much time going over the same stuff...

Reiterating my main points:
- Anti-money laundering legislation varies from country to country, so because of the pseudo-anonymity of Bitcoin, we can't say which country a customer comes from until they have been verified. Therefore we set a limit of around $2000 or equivalent before we verify people.
- If we have suspicions about a customer, we can verify them
- We are on the SoftSwiss network and these verification limits are pretty typical for most casinos on the network (I'm going to go into the legal structure for SoftSwiss later in this post)

Answering these questions:

Question: Because the licence and transactions are managed by SoftSwiss, it means legally they are ultimately liable for prosecution in the event of a particular government invoking anti-money laundering laws against Oshi, or any other SoftSwiss casino. SoftSwiss is a trade name and as trade names can not sign contracts, you must have signed a contract with a legal entity = company that usually ends with N.V. or B.V. in Curacao. What is the name of the company you signed a contract with or do they really state SoftSwiss as contract partner?
Answer you are mixing up to very different areas: gambling legislation and anti-money laundering legislation.
AML legislation is criminal legislation and any country territory that wishes to issue a prosecution against a defendant and their cohort could do so. In other words if a casino such as ours was actively involved in money laundering, any individual associated with the crime could be prosecuted.

In the context of gambling legislation Direx N.V. is the licence holder and therefore the legal entity responsible for maintaining the licence conditions set by Curaçao. The main licence holder will then issue sub-licences to white label partners. The issue of primary licence and sub- licences happens with many licensing jurisdictions such as UKGC  (UK gambling council ).

Question: Have you seen the license of this corporate entity?
Answer here's a link to the licence showing Direx.NV as a licence holder http://www.gaminglicences.com/pages/validate.php?lid=8048-S1908799

Question:   How much do they charge per month to let you operate under their license?
Answer in return for being able to use the licence, the game integration, transactional management, backend software (we use our own software for the front-end and we do most of the customer services ourselves) , we pay a percentage of our gross revenue. It's exactly the same for every white label casino.

Question: Please quote the Curacao anti money laundering laws? I have $10,000 in mind that requires you to check the identity.
Answer I don't know what the Curaçao anti money laundering laws are, because it's not relevant to me/Oshi. As I've mentioned before on a few occasions in posts here, we don't reference any specific country , because were dealing with Bitcoin and we don't know the country origins of users, therefore how can we apply anti-money laundering legislation from any given country territory to our customers? That's why we work to a general figure of $2000.

Question: So the corporate entity you work under is liable for eveything you do?
Answer no. Reiterating:

- gambling legislation:  this is exactly the case , however there is an onus on operators to work with the licence holder to make sure all legal obligations are met. If they aren't, for example knowingly accepting customers from  banned jurisdictions , the primary licence holder will end up in trouble with either regulatory bodies or game providers, or both… So there is a constant pressure from the licence holder to make sure we work with in our licence obligations.

- Anti-money laundering legislation: anyone involved anywhere is liable for prosecution if a country territory prosecutor believes there is a case against somebody.

Question: But you are also liable for what you do, right? Hence, this white label construction creates a lot of people who are liable for what you do.
Answer firstly, I don't really understand this question but I'll have a go at answering it. I think the question is something to do with me i.e. founder and CEO of Oshi being liable for infractions on anti-money legislation. Bear in mind this is different from licensing legislation. I am not legally liable for licensing legislation infractions. However anti-money laundering legislation is tied in with criminal legislation and therefore if a country prosecutor thought we were actively participating in money laundering, they could go after me personally.

Summing up
It's good to get all of this stuff out in the open, but bear in mind this is all public information and had 'game protect' done any research, he would have found this information within a few minutes.
Unfortunately 'game protect ' has muddled up two areas:  gambling licensing versus criminal legislation: anti-money laundering law.

About Curaçao licences

Curaçao is known for a lack of player protection. However, it is one of the few country jurisdictions that is okay with operators transacting in Bitcoin. By implication this means less stringent criteria for doing ID checks. For example any customer who deposits Fiat money in Oshi will automatically have a 'know your customer' check. This isn't the case with Bitcoin customers. (Good summary of cursor licensing here: https://calvinayre.com/regulators/curacao/ )

Ultimately as a reader, you make your choice about which Bitcoin casino to use based on their reputation and trustworthiness. In other words, if they check out well and it's clear they pay out promptly, and aren't too argumentative with customers, then you can trust them.

Casinomeister is not a UKGC licensed arbitrator, but they are certified by the chartered Institute of arbitrators: this post explains everything https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

Thepogg is a UKGC Accredited Alternative Dispute Resolution Service https://thepogg.com/ukgc-accredited-alternative-dispute-resolution-service/
and interestingly askgamblers have applied for accreditation, but I don't know if they've got it yet ref https://www.askgamblers.com/gambling-news/industry/askgamblers-to-be-the-alternative-dispute-resolution-provider/

For Oshi, we use AskGamblers as our primary dispute resolution service. The reason we do that is partly by circumstance.
AskGamblers rank very highly on Oshi key phrases on Google, so they ended up with the largest number of player reviews of any affiliate. Since they already had an active arbitration service  it made sense to ask people (as a last resort) to issue their complaints to askgamblers.

Askgamblers is one of the main places people go to check us out. So there is a great motivation to sort out issues that end up on askgamblers.

The same applies here i.e. if somebody is unhappy, they will use this arena to vent their frustrations. So if you read through some of the old threads, you'll see how we've dealt with difficult customer issues.

With https://game-protect.com/ , it's great to see other people getting into this arena. IMHO it's a healthy to keep operators in check.

Very extensive response, so I will split my answer:

If a gambling operator wants to join our mediation service, he has to state a Game Protect badge on his website and donate Bitcoin worth $50 per month. In case of a dispute, we currently ask for Bitcoin worth €15 per hour.

It is necessary to ask for a compensation, because unlike The Pogg or Casinomeister we can not use the affiliate commissions we receive to compensate this service, because the affiliate commissions are used to compensate the time, investigation and legal expenses costs for Game Protect qualified account issues.

As The Pogg or Casinomeister do not enforce claims thru legal action, they can simply use the affiliate commissions to compensate their time spent for the mediation service.

How does the mediation service work?

The one who claims something, either a player or the operator, has to deliver proof of his claim. In case of the operator, he has to forward the server logs in regards to the disputed account.

After assessment of the proof and conversation with the claimant and defendant, I will publicise my findings. My findings are not binding.

If you take a look at the accusations and issues daily posted on the forums, you will see that the players claim this and the operators claim that, but the operator can not post the server logs and the player usually do not want to publicise his sensitive data. The Mediation service solves this issue.

Let me refer to the 21.5 BTC TAKEN BY SPORTSBET.IO case. Even though I have no proof seen, but considering the behaviour of the player and the high amount involved, I think he tried to defraud sportsbet. Sportsbet finally sent his 15 BTC deposit back, so the mediation service could have potentially saved 15 BTC = currently $60,000 for sportsbet.


I was not able to find any license at The Pogg or Casinomeister, can you please refer me to it?

There's quite a lot to cover here, but as a preface for anyone reading...
Who is behind this question
'game-protect' runs this website https://game-protect.com/ he offers a mediation service to gamblers who have issues with given providers.
I'm not that clear on what kind of authority they have in any dispute. Generally with mediation services, a licensing authority would issue a licence to mediate on the behalf of a customer when sorting out issues with operators. This is a good example https://poggwebmasters.com/

Anyhow to answer his questions:
"You follow the AML laws of which country? Can you please quote those laws?" AML= anti-money laundering laws

legals and white label
it's important you (the reader) understands a few things before I answer this question. I am on a white label network that is run by SoftSwiss. If you don't know about white label networks, essentially there is a corporate entity that takes care of game integration, licensing, transactions and to some degree customer services. I have a casino brand that sits on top of the SoftSwiss platform.

Because the licence and transactions are managed by SoftSwiss, it means legally they are ultimately liable for prosecution in the event of a particular government invoking anti-money laundering laws against Oshi, or any other SoftSwiss casino.

Anti-money laundering law
Because this business is global in the true sense i.e. it's a Cryptocurrency casino and Bitcoin is borderless, it's misleading to suggest we work with specific anti-money laundering legislation for specific countries. In this situation we typically reference the United States and their guidelines of roughly $3000 per transaction before a 'know your customer' check is done. Because of our sensitive situation i.e. it's Cryptocurrency, we typically have a slightly lower KYC limit of around $2000 if we see some suspicious indicators, such as the site being accessed from a jurisdiction we cannot accept customers from.

So the KYC limits are not rigid, or tied in with specific territories, they are a pragmatic approach to a problem that could cause us a lot of trouble.

ref: "You never control anything if customer lost and will not give anything back in such cases, but control and confiscate balances if customer won. This behaviour obviously brings you a financial advantage and a disadvantage for your customers!"

I'm not quite clear on what's being said here. I think he's saying that if a customer loses, we don't do KYC , nor do we return losses. And if they win, we see if they have broken terms and conditions and confiscate their funds if they have.

Money-laundering
Bear in mind, KYC applies to transaction size and the flow of money. Money laundering is simply the running through of money via a third party in order to hide the provenance of the money. I.e. the true source of funds.
If money is deposited and remains with us, that is not money-laundering because we are accountable for the deposits been given to us. 

Retaining customer losses
In respect to us keeping customer losses, of course we do. That's because every individual who gambles with us enters a contract which we clearly show on Oshi. In very simple terms, the contract says: I want to gamble, if I win you pay if I lose you keep the funds.

We constantly have people attempting game us, whether it's bonus abuse or attempting to use bots or double spend Bitcoin transactions. If we find people haven't kept to the terms and conditions they've agreed to by using the site, then we have a right to confiscate winnings or in many cases close active accounts, even if they're profitable to us.

If you look at our terms and conditions we've made a huge effort to make them easy to understand. Why? Because we want Oshi to be straightforward. Where we have terminology that is difficult to understand, we always have the same information in plain English. https://oshi.io/bonuses/tcs

House edge
People forget that our house edge is on average only 3% and we typically give away more than half of that 3% margin in bonuses. We are one of the most generous casinos on bonusing in the marketplace. That 1.5% margin is eaten up by game provider fees and business overheads, which give us an actual profit margin of less than .5% - and this is a fairly normal margin breakdown.

Responsible gambling
As far as customers losing huge amounts of money... The big question is always whether they can afford to lose that money. If customers can't afford to lose this amount of cash, they are problem gamblers.

If we see somebody losing large sums of money, we will ask what's going on because we don't want people destroying their lives through gambling. If they are problem gamblers, we will obviously ask them to set limits or close their account. The reason we do this is because I want Oshi to be honourable in the way we conduct business.

By the way...
I hope that answers the questions and do check out https://game-protect.com/bitcoin-gambling/

You follow the AML laws of which country? Can you please quote those laws?

Authorities never ever controlled any gambling shell company in Curacao, so you must refer to another jurisdiction?

You never control anything if customer lost and will not give anything back in such cases, but control and confiscate balances if customer won.

This behaviour obviously brings you a financial advantage and a disadvantage for your customers!

As far as the anti-money-laundering limits go, a lot of it has to do with the industry you are in. For example when I worked at Betfair and subsequently Unibet, there was a constant emphasis on meeting obligations around anti-money-laundering legislation.

Obviously gambling is seen as a high-risk area area for money-laundering, especially Oshi, being a Cryptocurrency casino.

As I understand it there is no single rule about transaction size. I think it's more to do with perceived risk of money laundering happening. And bear in mind that if we or other casinos like us are investigated by one authority or another, it's because they believe they have sufficient reason to do so. I don't want this kind of investigation and therefore we are thorough about 'know your customer'.

And does it make us money if we 'know our customer'? No it doesn't. Why? Because we don't seek customers from jurisdictions were not licensed for and so:
a. It's unusual for us to find customers from jurisdictions we can't serve
b. Following on, we rarely end up withholding winnings from these people, because they're rare in the first place.

AML laws require to check the identity for amounts above $10,000 and prior to a deposit.

And this confirms that you do not follow AML laws or try to prevent illegal activities!

Your behaviour strongly indicates that you act for your own financial benefit.

I meant this like that we follow standard steps against money laundry and other illegal activities whcih can in the end endanger other people.   
Exact procedures know only a limited number of people to achieve the greatest security and privacy of our users.

After receipt of identification documents, do you compare the name with an existing list of terrorists or do you have to send requests to Interpol each time?

You are right. It's basically all about protecting customers and doing everything within the law (none of us wants to support terrorists or any other criminals).

Just stay calm! They are asking for it to make sure it’s you. You know too much fraud now a day. I don’t think so you should hesitate to send them bills. But last 6 months bills should not be demanded.  Couples of utility bills are sufficient to prove you identity. I hope soon your issue gets sorted out.

Good that you are going to sort it out, if what is being said by joksim is true then you should do something to him (your support agent). At least tell him not to ask for ID on anything, if he still do it after you tell him so you need to replace him with someone else who have better competencies.

For readers: I am founder and CEO of Oshi.
I'm not happy about these inconsistencies and I will be doing a complete review of cashout processes and various inconsistencies first thing next week. My view: people gamble at a casino because they trust it. If we are inconsistent, then how can people trust us? That's why I want to sort all of this out.

There is one support agent who request ID on anything, while others process without asking for ID.
I was asked for ID on almost all withdrawals by the same agent while other agent say to cancel and request withdrawal again and it will be processed within few minutes.

Yes, I will look into this and find out what's going on

I'm not sure what happened there, but I will look into this and find out what's going on. This isn't a big withdrawal so I'm not sure why we would have asked for verification.

I'm not sure why there's so much hate and ridiculous speculation, but here are the facts.

Firstly, statements like this are nonsense: "This is the criminal offense of Fraud by false representation".
Were not licensed in the UK, we don't accept UK customers and any UKGC law is irrelevant us as a consequence.

Here's some information on Curaçao as a licensing jurisdiction: https://calvinayre.com/regulators/curacao/

We are a white label casino on the SoftSwiss network. All these casinos share the same underlying transactional platform as we do. The only main difference between us and the rest of them is that we have our own unique front end. Here's a list: https://www.askgamblers.com/software/softswiss/ and yes, you will see brands like Bitstarz and mBit.

All of these brands will say something similar to this: Oshi.io is owned and operated by Direx N.V., a company registered and established under the laws of Curacao and its wholly owned subsidiary, Direx Limited, registered address Stasinou 1, MITSI Building 1, 1st Floor, Flat/Office 4, Plateia Eleftherias, Nicosia, Cyprus. Direx N.V. is licensed and regulated by Antillephone N.V. Direx N.V.’s registration number is 131879 and its registered address is Wilhelminalaan 13, Willemstad, Curaçao.

Direx is the vehicle by which all of these casinos are registered and officially owned. If you're not familiar with white label casinos, the way it works is you have a single entity that handles the licensing and depending on corporate structures et cetera different entities will handle different parts of the infrastructure i.e. software development and so on.

Because of the legal structure, officially we are owned by Direx, but as a white label provider we have autonomy on things like marketing, design and user experience.

And that's it. There's nothing exciting here.