P - page 13. | Bitcointalksearch.org

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: piotr_n on August 30, 2012, 02:14:13 PM

Well if it is immaterial - then he is profiting from selling worthless bonds, while promising to deposit them into BS&T and buy them back at 1.0 + interests if Pirate would pay out.

But in reality there is still an actual possibility that Pirate will pay out.
And if so: where is he going to get the extra money from, since he's selling the bonds now at 0.1, without even depositing this fraction into BS&T?
The obvious answer: he won't have the money to cover his obligations, if Pirate does pay out.

Either way - he violates the contract, which is completely unacceptable and it's just a clear, outrageous fraud - nothing else!

But you people are so happy with this that I just don't even want to ruin your fun...
So please pardon my "trolling" and just keep letting him doing what he does, since I'm dying to see how this will end up

The only way I can see this being acceptable is if he has already deposited funds with Pirate and is selling a claim on them should they be fully paid off. So long as his personal balance with Pirate is more than the face value of the bonds and he deducts the face value from his tracking of his personal balance, I don't see any fraud. Otherwise, I agree with you. He can't pay the face value to Pirate if he sells the bond for less than face.

piotr_n

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aka tonikt

Quote from: Tomatocage on August 30, 2012, 02:10:11 PM

Quote from: piotr_n on August 30, 2012, 12:31:45 PM

So, coming back to the TYGRR.BOND-P topic, and the contract which clearly states:

Quote

1) This is a pass through bond to BTCST.
2) The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.

... knowing that now the number of TYGRR.BOND-P bonds in circulation is 31703, while it was less than 27895 at August the 20th - this means that Goat is clearly violating the IPO contract!

IMO, such a blatant and outrageous action should not only give him a SCAMMER tag on the forum, but it should also ban him from GLBSE once and for all!

But obviously, Nefario still claims that Goat has done nothing wrong - right, Nefario?

It's immaterial at this point. Even if it were 1,000,000 shares, 1 million x 0 is still 0.

Well if it is immaterial - then he is profiting from selling worthless bonds, while promising to deposit them into BS&T and buy them back at 1.0 + interests if Pirate would pay out.

But in reality there is still an actual possibility that Pirate will pay out.
And if so: where is he going to get the extra money from, since he's selling the bonds now at 0.1, without even depositing this fraction into BS&T?
The obvious answer: he won't have the money to cover his obligations, if Pirate does pay out.

Either way - he violates the contract, which is completely unacceptable and it's just a clear, outrageous fraud - nothing else!

But you people are so happy with this that I just don't even want to ruin your fun...
So please pardon my "trolling" and just keep letting him doing what he does, since I'm dying to see how this will end up

Tomatocage

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1222

brb keeping up with the Kardashians

Quote from: piotr_n on August 30, 2012, 12:31:45 PM

So, coming back to the TYGRR.BOND-P topic, and the contract which clearly states:

Quote

1) This is a pass through bond to BTCST.
2) The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.

... knowing that now the number of TYGRR.BOND-P bonds in circulation is 31703, while it was less than 27895 at August the 20th - this means that Goat is clearly violating the IPO contract!

IMO, such a blatant and outrageous action should not only give him a SCAMMER tag on the forum, but it should also ban him from GLBSE once and for all!

But obviously, Nefario still claims that Goat has done nothing wrong - right, Nefario?

It's immaterial at this point. Even if it were 1,000,000 shares, 1 million x 0 is still 0.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

So, coming back to the TYGRR.BOND-P topic, and the contract which clearly states:

Quote

1) This is a pass through bond to BTCST.
2) The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST.

... knowing that now the number of TYGRR.BOND-P bonds in circulation is 31703, while it was less than 27895 at August the 20th - this means that Goat is clearly violating the IPO contract!

IMO, such a blatant and outrageous action should not only give him a SCAMMER tag on the forum, but it should also ban him from GLBSE once and for all!

But obviously, Nefario still claims that Goat has done nothing wrong - right, Nefario?

Tomatocage

legendary

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brb keeping up with the Kardashians

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bitlane on August 29, 2012, 11:28:57 AM

Quote from: Tomatocage on August 29, 2012, 11:26:10 AM

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up an account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share". Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

OR, Pirate can simply set up his own BID Wall and tell everyone to dump. He doesn't need anyone's info.

Goat, Nefario and anyone else showing Pirate just the slightest bit of resistance to his crap should be rewarded, not kicked in public.

THEY ARE PROTECTING THEIR CUSTOMERS.

Protecting yes, but from who or what, who knows... I highly doubt Pirate personally wants that info.

Has there been any clarity on this since yesterday?

Mageant

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AFAIK if you declare bankruptcy in Texas you get to keep your house. So if Pirate did that there might be nothing to seize from him.

wirmola

member

Activity: 111

Merit: 10

is there any chance that he will pay?
what are we gonna do about it? send guys to his place??
did anyone speak to him, and what does he say..??

markm

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1090

Quote from: Nefario on August 29, 2012, 01:02:25 PM

GLBSE used to have all clients sign their orders with their private key, pretty soon because obvious that this wasn't going to scale as more and more people lost their keys

As long as its them losing their keys not me losing their keys that is fine. They are free to lose their keys, I am free to lose mine.

Whether people should be free to invest in ponzi schemes or not I am still willing to allow them the freedom to lose their keys.

-MarkM-

sadpandatech

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: piotr_n on August 29, 2012, 02:08:16 PM

Quote from: Nefario on August 29, 2012, 01:57:58 PM

Does any exchange revert a transaction when someone has allowed their account to be compromised?

they dont have to because their busines, unlike your is not about stealing, so they have no problem like someone suddenly saying that his 300 btc worth assets were sold for 24 and withdrawn without problem a minute later
it can only happen on yor service man.
so just accept that you are special and we all admire you

That does sound like a very unusual circumstance. Now if only we had a open place where we could start topics on such matters and discuss them. now where might we find such a place...

You'll have to answer that first part yourself, but for the last time, Pirate's request has 0 to do with Nef or Goat. You're arguing to the point of seeming to be purposfully trying to distract from that issue.

piotr_n

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Activity: 2053

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aka tonikt

Quote from: Nefario on August 29, 2012, 01:57:58 PM

Does any exchange revert a transaction when someone has allowed their account to be compromised?

they dont have to because their busines, unlike your is not about stealing, so they have no problem like someone suddenly saying that his 300 btc worth assets were sold for 24 and withdrawn without problem a minute later
it can only happen on yor service man.
so just accept that you are special and we all admire you

Nefario

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 513

GLBSE Support [email protected]

Quote from: piotr_n on August 29, 2012, 01:43:47 PM

so now it is about fat fingers - not a stolen session anymore...
sure - it could have been anything... i agree
but you know what, as for me, it was most likely just you.
otherwise you would have reverted the transaction.
if you let this money to get withdrawn from your service, even though all the withdrawals are delayed anyway and man needs to wait an hour for a fucking 1.66.
300 - and you just let it go through like that...
that's your fucking fault and you should have taken the consequences

Does any exchange revert a transaction when someone has allowed their account to be compromised?

MtGox? Intersango? BTC-e?

You'll find the answer is no, for obvious reasons.

We've taken a hit plenty of times, when it was our fault but never had to do so for a compromised account as GLBSE takes all precautions, I see no reason why we or any other site should do so if they're not responsible.

People are responsible for their own security there is only so much we can do and this is doubly so with bitcoin.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

so now it is about fat fingers - not a stolen session anymore...
sure - it could have been anything... i agree
but you know what, as for me, it was most likely just you.
otherwise you would have reverted the transaction.
if you let this money to get withdrawn from your service, even though all the withdrawals are delayed anyway and man needs to wait an hour for a fucking 1.66.
300 - and you just let it go through like that...
that's your fucking fault and you should have taken the consequences

DeaDTerra

donator

Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Nefario on August 29, 2012, 01:02:25 PM

Quote from: piotr_n on August 29, 2012, 11:28:35 AM

The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.

Listen, crazy, if you need lies to win an argument then it's no win at all.

Quote from: markm on August 29, 2012, 11:44:49 AM

I am realy glad I have taken the tiem to work with FellowTraveler on getting Open Transactions working, so if people like you end up using my server every asset balance they have will be signed with their own secret private key that only exists on their computer, so if they try to claim I stole something their own digital signature will refute their accusation.

-MarkM-

No one cares about OpenTransactions, it's difficult to use and the problem it's tying to solve is the wrong one, the problem is key management.

GLBSE used to have all clients sign their orders with their private key, pretty soon because obvious that this wasn't going to scale as more and more people lost their keys

Wow...
People on this forum are getting more and more stupid each day that passes.
Accusing Nefario of theft when the share were sold into the open market... really?
Comeon guys, lay off this crazy hunt for a scape goat.
//DeaDTerra

Nefario

hero member

Activity: 602

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GLBSE Support [email protected]

Quote from: piotr_n on August 29, 2012, 11:28:35 AM

The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.

Listen, crazy, if you need lies to win an argument then it's no win at all.

Quote from: markm on August 29, 2012, 11:44:49 AM

I am realy glad I have taken the tiem to work with FellowTraveler on getting Open Transactions working, so if people like you end up using my server every asset balance they have will be signed with their own secret private key that only exists on their computer, so if they try to claim I stole something their own digital signature will refute their accusation.

-MarkM-

No one cares about OpenTransactions, it's difficult to use and the problem it's tying to solve is the wrong one, the problem is key management.

GLBSE used to have all clients sign their orders with their private key, pretty soon because obvious that this wasn't going to scale as more and more people lost their keys

markm

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1090

Quote from: piotr_n on August 29, 2012, 11:28:35 AM

The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.
Just like there was no way for nedbert9 to prove that Nefario stole 3k of his ASICMINER.
But the common sense says that he is the obvious thief, since he refused to revert the stealing transactions.

Pirate would have to be crazy, like I used to be, to open an account on this fucking thief's server.

I am realy glad I have taken the tiem to work with FellowTraveler on getting Open Transactions working, so if people like you end up using my server every asset balance they have will be signed with their own secret private key that only exists on their computer, so if they try to claim I stole something their own digital signature will refute their accusation.

-MarkM-

Serge

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Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Tomatocage on August 29, 2012, 11:08:40 AM

Quote from: Serge on August 29, 2012, 09:30:52 AM

you still don't get it do you, the greed of cashing out cheaply picked up bonds for bitcents on a bitcoin is blinding you - GLBSE PPTs are NOT BTCST Trust Sub-accounts there is nothing for Goat/Nefario to submit to Pirate. GBLSE should not, can't and won't release their user's data to 3rd parties without a legal motion such as court order

1. Create "mule" GLBSE account named ronald_mcdonald
2. Transfer over all bonds to mule account
3. Submit info to Pirate
4. Huh

5. Profit

it's a neat shortcut but there still would be an obligation to those who don't submit/trust this mule account.

if I invested in GLBSE PPT I expect to get paid by either dividend or through buy-back according to asset's contract, and in this case I don't owe pirate anything and would not approve GLBSE/Goat passing around my data to 3rd parties. Pirate dealt with Goat and should honor his end of deal with Goat, then Goat needs to honor his part of deal with his bond holders through GLBSE.

edit: yeah or as bitlane said Pirate could just put a bid order for face value + all missing interest and it is done deal

bitlane

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

I heart thebaron

Quote from: Tomatocage on August 29, 2012, 11:26:10 AM

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up an account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share". Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

OR, Pirate can simply set up his own BID Wall and tell everyone to dump. He doesn't need anyone's info.

Goat, Nefario and anyone else showing Pirate just the slightest bit of resistance to his crap should be rewarded, not kicked in public.

THEY ARE PROTECTING THEIR CUSTOMERS.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: Tomatocage on August 29, 2012, 11:26:10 AM

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up an account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share". Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

You don't see a reason - but I do.
If Pirate does start an account - and something gets missing from his account; he will be the one responsible.
The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.
Just like there was no way for nedbert9 to prove that Nefario stole 3k of his ASICMINER.
But the common sense says that he is the obvious thief, since he refused to revert the stealing transactions.

Pirate would have to be crazy, like I used to be, to open an account on this fucking thief's server.

Tomatocage

legendary

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brb keeping up with the Kardashians

Quote from: piotr_n on August 29, 2012, 11:19:00 AM

Quote from: Tomatocage on August 29, 2012, 11:08:40 AM

Quote from: Serge on August 29, 2012, 09:30:52 AM

you still don't get it do you, the greed of cashing out cheaply picked up bonds for bitcents on a bitcoin is blinding you - GLBSE PPTs are NOT BTCST Trust Sub-accounts there is nothing for Goat/Nefario to submit to Pirate. GBLSE should not, can't and won't release their user's data to 3rd parties without a legal motion such as court order

1. Create "mule" GLBSE account named ronald_mcdonald
2. Transfer over all bonds to mule account
3. Submit info to Pirate
4. Huh

5. Profit

That sound like a good plan... except that the guy who administrates GLBSE is the one that Pirate is trying to avoid, because he's cheeky goat's bitch, that would not hesitate to lie for a profit.
So how can you trust in his service?
Especially if you know that he recently stole 3000 ASICMINER assets.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1138495

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up a GLBSE account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share". Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: Tomatocage on August 29, 2012, 11:08:40 AM

Quote from: Serge on August 29, 2012, 09:30:52 AM

you still don't get it do you, the greed of cashing out cheaply picked up bonds for bitcents on a bitcoin is blinding you - GLBSE PPTs are NOT BTCST Trust Sub-accounts there is nothing for Goat/Nefario to submit to Pirate. GBLSE should not, can't and won't release their user's data to 3rd parties without a legal motion such as court order

1. Create "mule" GLBSE account named ronald_mcdonald
2. Transfer over all bonds to mule account
3. Submit info to Pirate
4. Huh

5. Profit

That sound like a good plan... except that the guy who administrates GLBSE is the one that Pirate is trying to avoid, because he's cheeky goat's bitch, that would not hesitate to lie for a profit.
So how can you trust in his service?
Especially if you know that he recently stole 3000 ASICMINER assets.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1138495

Topic: P - page 13. (Read 78397 times)