[Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 41.

Ichthyo

hero member

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Quote from: DILLIGAF on June 15, 2012, 11:08:27 PM

Quote from: zhoutong on June 15, 2012, 11:04:00 PM

There must be a reason that financial institutions love Java and C#. These languages are more suitable to large-scale projects.

They also have the backing of large companies that you can sue for billions if shit goes wrong..

Those languages are well established, which means there is a huge pool of programmers your can employ.
Another thing which probably plays some role is the fact that both languages are kind of "middle ground": not too low level, but also quite explicit and without much magic.

Ichthyo

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Quote from: zhoutong on June 15, 2012, 10:59:57 PM

There's is only one thing outside the bot's control, that is Mt. Gox doesn't accept the orders.

In that case, the buy! call will fail the the program will be queued to retry. Nothing is changed in the database.

There are only one variable, which is the surplus. The rest are constants set by the operator.

The operator can fuck up. Settings can be misconfigured or inconsistent. The ticker can deliver poisoned values and so on...

The dangerous cases are when things don't blow up outright, but just go astray.

DILLIGAF

full member

Activity: 196

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Quote from: zhoutong on June 15, 2012, 11:04:00 PM

There must be a reason that financial institutions love Java and C#. These languages are more suitable to large-scale projects.

They also have the backing of large companies that you can sue for billions if shit goes wrong..

zhoutong

vip

Activity: 490

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Quote from: Ichthyo on June 15, 2012, 10:52:26 PM

But for sake of fairness, we should add the following:

Bitcoinica didn't break down because of its code quality. It was due to "other circumstances"

I have to admit that the code quality isn't great, especially for things that are not CRUD.

But Patrick once told me that 90% of Intersango code is business logic (such as working with banks). That relieved me a little bit.

There must be a reason that financial institutions love Java and C#. These languages are more suitable to large-scale projects.

zhoutong

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Activity: 490

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Quote from: Ichthyo on June 15, 2012, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: genjix on June 15, 2012, 09:26:33 PM

I was just looking at a piece of code for hedging and saw 3 bugs and numerous hacks to work around flaws. It doesn't surprise me that third time lucky it blows up.

Quote from: zhoutong on June 15, 2012, 10:32:48 PM

I know it's not world-class code, but isn't it just business logic and nothing else?

Nothing else, exactly, thats the point.

Since you posted that code, well.
Its the typical kind of code which assumes everything goes well and works as intended.

There is absolutely zero checks and precautions to protect against anything not as assumed, and moreover, that piece of code does asssume a whole pile of things. Just the thought that such code runs automatically and trades several thousands of $$ makes me feel sick...

Sorry for being so blatant

There's is only one thing outside the bot's control, that is Mt. Gox doesn't accept the orders.

In that case, the buy! call will fail the the program will be queued to retry. Nothing is changed in the database.

There are only one variable, which is the surplus. The rest are constants set by the operator.

zhoutong

vip

Activity: 490

Merit: 502

Quote from: ineededausername on June 15, 2012, 10:54:11 PM

Zhou: what were buy_factor and sell_factor set to? Were they dynamically updated based on current unhedged orders, or were they constants?

99% of the time, they are both 1.

I built this in January, when a worker server broke down and under-hedged some orders. They I can adjust the settings to smoothly acquire the under hedged Bitcoins instead of placing a big market order.

ineededausername

hero member

Activity: 784

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bitcoin hundred-aire

Zhou: what were buy_factor and sell_factor set to? Were they dynamically updated based on current unhedged orders, or were they constants?

Ichthyo

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

But for sake of fairness, we should add the following:

Bitcoinica didn't break down because of its code quality. It was due to "other circumstances"

Ichthyo

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: genjix on June 15, 2012, 09:26:33 PM

I was just looking at a piece of code for hedging and saw 3 bugs and numerous hacks to work around flaws. It doesn't surprise me that third time lucky it blows up.

Quote from: zhoutong on June 15, 2012, 10:32:48 PM

I know it's not world-class code, but isn't it just business logic and nothing else?

Nothing else, exactly, thats the point.

Since you posted that code, well.
Its the typical kind of code which assumes everything goes well and works as intended.

There is absolutely zero checks and precautions to protect against anything not as assumed, and moreover, that piece of code does asssume a whole pile of things. Just the thought that such code runs automatically and trades several thousands of $$ makes me feel sick...

Sorry for being so blatant

proudhon

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1311

Quote from: jojo69 on June 15, 2012, 10:36:46 PM

Quote from: proudhon on June 15, 2012, 10:14:09 PM

Admittedly, I haven't always been the most mature person around here and I'm sure I've said some things that have offended people, but that was pretty harsh.

I think I agree with this, if they were just taking the BTC and running why the fuck would they still be hanging out here taking the abuse? They have a scrambled db and 10,000 motherfuckers trying to scam them.

Yeah, I really don't think there's anything nefarious going on. I do think there's some confusion between the managers, as we have gotten some conflicting reports. I think Amir has expressed one of the biggest reasons for the delay, and it has to do with the nature of bitcoin - once they send them out, there's no going back. I think it's the right thing to do to be as confident as possible, and it's a shame (but totally unsurprising) that people polluted the claims process with bogus claims.

I actually underestimated my claim because it had been so long since I logged in and I couldn't remember what it was exactly, and I didn't want to overshoot it and appear to be trying to take advantage of the fact that they were missing so much data. So, even if I get back 100% of my claim, I won't be getting back all the bitcoins I had in there.

jojo69

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diamond-handed zealot

Quote from: proudhon on June 15, 2012, 10:14:09 PM

Admittedly, I haven't always been the most mature person around here and I'm sure I've said some things that have offended people, but that was pretty harsh.

I think I agree with this, if they were just taking the BTC and running why the fuck would they still be hanging out here taking the abuse? They have a scrambled db and 10,000 motherfuckers trying to scam them.

zhoutong

vip

Activity: 490

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Quote from: genjix on June 15, 2012, 09:26:33 PM

I was just looking at a piece of code for hedging and saw 3 bugs and numerous hacks to work around flaws. It doesn't surprise me that third time lucky it blows up.

Care to point out the 3 bugs and various hacks?

I know it's not world-class code, but isn't it just business logic and nothing else?

Quote

class HedgingJob

  @queue = :normal

  def self.perform

   confidence_level = Setting.where(:key => "confidence_level").first.value.to_f
   surplus = Setting.where(:key => "surplus").first.value.to_f
   if Setting.where(:key => "buy_factor").first
   buy_factor = Setting.where(:key => "buy_factor").first.value.to_f
   sell_factor = Setting.where(:key => "sell_factor").first.value.to_f
   else
   buy_factor = 1
   sell_factor = 1
   end

   if surplus.abs > confidence_level
   amount = surplus.abs - confidence_level
   if surplus > 0
   amount *= buy_factor
   price = Ticker.last_tick("BTCUSD").selling * 1.02
   response = MtGox.buy!(amount, price)
   Setting.change_surplus(0-amount/buy_factor)
   else
   amount *= sell_factor
   price = Ticker.last_tick("BTCUSD").buying / 1.02
   response = MtGox.sell!(amount, price)
   amount = 0 - amount
   Setting.change_surplus(0-amount/sell_factor)
   end

   Trade.create(:amount => amount, :price => price, :response => response.to_s[0..253])

   end



  end

end

BadBitcoin (James Sutton)

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Activity: 452

Merit: 252

Quote from: genjix on June 15, 2012, 09:26:33 PM

Quote from: bitlane on June 15, 2012, 08:59:00 PM

I am sure there are a few proud families out there, somewhere in the world tonight....that's for sure. It's just too bad that they can't see this first hand and see what the fruits of their loins have accomplished in life.

Fuck you asshole. Our data is rubbish. What would you have us do? Refund every scammer? Or maybe just friends/people on this forum leaving out those not in the community. I never even touched Bitcoinica, and here I am going through hundreds of lines of nonsensical numbers and writing emails, not code. Your guilt by association is retarded considering we've run our own service for 2 years no without a single login or problem incident. Bitcoinica was a load of crap that had been broken into twice before due to incompetence and Tihan realised this, and rushed to acquire us. I was just looking at a piece of code for hedging and saw 3 bugs and numerous hacks to work around flaws. It doesn't surprise me that third time lucky it blows up.

The data is incomplete. To build a case you need to understand the big picture. Once you make a refund, you aren't getting the money back. I think only the scammers are making noise here to rush the process for their selfish gains. The most claimants so far that have emailed me have been very polite because they don't want to jeopardise their claim.

+1, that took a while

proudhon

legendary

Activity: 2198

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Quote from: bitlane on June 15, 2012, 08:59:00 PM

Quote from: bulanula on June 15, 2012, 04:50:23 PM

Also, has anyone received ANYTHING back or are these just stalling tactics until they can really pack their Interbags too Huh

Unless they all change their names (as in Christian Names/First Names etc) and begin life once again under assumed identities, I couldn't see anyone belonging to the Bitcoinica Consultancy or financially tied to them in any way, shape or form, EVER being given the chance to handle the informed public's money ever again.

This has been 'Stalling-101' at it's finest....but then again, what do ANY of them have to look forward to after this is finally over and done with ? Bitcoinica ~~2.0~~ 3.0 ?

As far as their futures in Finance and Technology, I wouldn't trust any of these clowns with the pocket change found in between the cushions of my couch or the management of a blank/empty USB thumbdrive.

I am sure there are a few proud families out there, somewhere in the world tonight....that's for sure. It's just too bad that they can't see this first hand and see what the fruits of their loins have accomplished in life.

Admittedly, I haven't always been the most mature person around here and I'm sure I've said some things that have offended people, but that was pretty harsh.

jojo69

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 4606

diamond-handed zealot

Quote from: rjk on June 15, 2012, 09:34:07 PM

Person behind keyboard instead of robot, VERIFIED.

ROFL!!

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: genjix on June 15, 2012, 09:26:33 PM

Quote from: bitlane on June 15, 2012, 08:59:00 PM

I am sure there are a few proud families out there, somewhere in the world tonight....that's for sure. It's just too bad that they can't see this first hand and see what the fruits of their loins have accomplished in life.

Fuck you asshole. Our data is rubbish. What would you have us do? Refund every scammer? Or maybe just friends/people on this forum leaving out those not in the community. I never even touched Bitcoinica, and here I am going through hundreds of lines of nonsensical numbers and writing emails, not code. Your guilt by association is retarded considering we've run our own service for 2 years no without a single login or problem incident. Bitcoinica was a load of crap that had been broken into twice before due to incompetence and Tihan realised this, and rushed to acquire us. I was just looking at a piece of code for hedging and saw 3 bugs and numerous hacks to work around flaws. It doesn't surprise me that third time lucky it blows up.

The data is incomplete. To build a case you need to understand the big picture. Once you make a refund, you aren't getting the money back. I think only the scammers are making noise here to rush the process for their selfish gains. The most claimants so far that have emailed me have been very polite because they don't want to jeopardise their claim.

Person behind keyboard instead of robot, VERIFIED.

genjix

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1076

Quote from: bitlane on June 15, 2012, 08:59:00 PM

I am sure there are a few proud families out there, somewhere in the world tonight....that's for sure. It's just too bad that they can't see this first hand and see what the fruits of their loins have accomplished in life.

Fuck you asshole. Our data is rubbish. What would you have us do? Refund every scammer? Or maybe just friends/people on this forum leaving out those not in the community. I never even touched Bitcoinica, and here I am going through hundreds of lines of nonsensical numbers and writing emails, not code. Your guilt by association is retarded considering we've run our own service for 2 years no without a single login or problem incident. Bitcoinica was a load of crap that had been broken into twice before due to incompetence and Tihan realised this, and rushed to acquire us. I was just looking at a piece of code for hedging and saw 3 bugs and numerous hacks to work around flaws. It doesn't surprise me that third time lucky it blows up.

The data is incomplete. To build a case you need to understand the big picture. Once you make a refund, you aren't getting the money back. I think only the scammers are making noise here to rush the process for their selfish gains. The most claimants so far that have emailed me have been very polite because they don't want to jeopardise their claim.

bitlane

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

I heart thebaron

Quote from: bulanula on June 15, 2012, 04:50:23 PM

Also, has anyone received ANYTHING back or are these just stalling tactics until they can really pack their Interbags too Huh

Unless they all change their names (as in Christian Names/First Names etc) and begin life once again under assumed identities, I couldn't see anyone belonging to the Bitcoinica Consultancy or financially tied to them in any way, shape or form, EVER being given the chance to handle the informed public's money ever again.

This has been 'Stalling-101' at it's finest....but then again, what do ANY of them have to look forward to after this is finally over and done with ? Bitcoinica ~~2.0~~ 3.0 ?

As far as their futures in Finance and Technology, I wouldn't trust any of these clowns with the pocket change found in between the cushions of my couch or the management of a blank/empty USB thumbdrive.

I am sure there are a few proud families out there, somewhere in the world tonight....that's for sure. It's just too bad that they can't see this first hand and see what the fruits of their loins have accomplished in life.

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Wow this is getting out of hand Grin

Fact is, they had been lucky to have over a month of stability, but I guess it wasn't going to last forever and BTC valuation would have to move either way.

Some people are missing big on this.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: LoupGaroux on June 15, 2012, 03:33:27 PM

Ah but when what they SHOULD be doing runs into what they ARE doing in support of this massive scam, too bad no soup for you! Looks like the favorite good old boys will get 50 cents on the dollar, and the rest of the world, whom they think too small to take action, will get the "oh, so sorry, bad records don't you know, wasn't our fault, we just came to the party after she was already pregnant, evil hackzorz stole all the good records, (except the ones we need to actually pull funds out for ourselves...).

Another graduate from the Mr.Bitcoins/Bitscalper/Shakuru/MyBitcoin/Bitomat School of Business Ethics is making his mark on bitcoin. Yay, everybody get ready for the shafting... its coming any minute now.

My dick gets hard when I read your posts, but keep this between us. Grin

Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 41. (Read 156711 times)