Topic: PBmining - legit? - page 25. (Read 67932 times)

They already spent the income buying the hardware. How are they going to fund buying new hardware? New customers? Bingo! Ponzi.

if you assume that anyone runs antiquated hardware...  which is insane

You don't see a problem with that? The cost of electricity alone is 3x what they bring in from each customer.

It's legit.



Sorry, have a low post count so thought it would make sense to post that.

Looking at risk/reward here: I don't see any spectacular rewards that would justify investing anything at this risk level. There are better investments.

I, sadly, feel as thought it'll be proven out as a scam soon enough so there isn't much point in really arguing about it.  I think there is enough information in this thread that a wise person would not invest in PBMining until they disclosed evidence that they are indeed mining.  Since no such evidence exists, it's a complete and total gamble that you'll make your money back from investing with them, let alone profit from it.  Some people have money to lose...

You're completely ignoring 75% of the operating costs.

Even at $0.08/kwh it still costs more than $80,000/month.

I didn't defend a scam. Read my post again. Exact words: "Could it be a scam? Sure."

I merely attempted to debunk bad information. In response I got more bad information.

Lets get more detailed. They claim to be hosted in saskatchewan.

Here's saskatchewan's power costs:
http://www.saskpower.com/wp-content/uploads/saskpower_supplied_transformation_rates.pdf


(14500*.11335)+((540720-14500)*.05952)+27.43=$32991.91

Less than my original calculation. All I'm saying is yes-there is the possibility that this is not a scam.

If you're going to defend a scam, at least use realistic calculations. Operating costs involved in running huge mining operations are not limited to electricity alone.

Here is a realistic calculation

375th*2w/gh*1.3pue=975kw*720kwh/month*0.1$/kwh=$70,000/month in electricity

Add another $25,000/month for rent on a warehouse big enough for 1mw worth of hardware and an additional ~$5000 per month for other costs like internet/setup/staff/maintenance

So at least $100,000/month or more than 1/3 of what they mine.

If they are buying Antminers (I thought you said S2, it was my mistake) they are unprofitable at your 7 cents a watt in 5 months.  Then they need to buy something else to support the rest of the five year contract that people paid for.

The Antminer prices just fell anyway, and they'd arrive there in a week maybe.  So these estimates aren't even realistic.  PBMining is dropping their prices dynamically based on the current Bitcoin price and allowing people to earn based on time. 

The margins for the Antminer to profit are extremely small.  Do they just have free Internet, AC and a staff to handle the hosting of all these miners with no defective units to stay under these tight margins?

Think about it.  They have a website that basically says that if you purchase from them, you ALWAYS PROFIT more Bitcoin than you spent.  Forget FIAT for a moment.  They are saying that if you spend 1 Bitcoin you're ALWAYS going to get back 1.1 Bitcoin.  (Example estimate, not exact by any means.)

You think that is possible?  Nobody else is able to do it.  Nobody.  Just these guys.  Who have no identities, no proof of miners, who laundry their coins, and flat out don't exist anywhere except for an EBay account which is basically useless.

All they have to do is point to their mining address, or take a picture of their hardware.  Everyone else does.  They don't. 

You're entitled to your opinion and I won't try to change it. I will correct your facts though.

The S1 is BTC0.484 per 180gh/s. 0.484/180=BTC.002688888/gh/s
.00268*439=$1.17/gh/s

Draw of the unit is 360 W at the wall - not 1100.

If we were to assume their whole facility were antminers, that would put their total electric consumption per hour as follows:

((TotalHashrate/HashratePerUnit)*WattsPerUnit)/1000

((375500/180)*360)/1000=751

So in a given month thats ((30*24)*751)=540720

I think they said they were in canada: the average electric price in canada (1) for an industrial facility is $.0732/KWh CAD or $.07USD

540720*$.07=$37,850.4 Monthly Power Cost

Per GH that's 37850.4/375500=$0.1008 Cost per month.

Over 5 years that's $0.1008*(12*5)=$6

So - we can deduce that in order to maintain profit, they'll have to upgrade their hardware after a year assuming they are running S1's. But, customers have paid up front. So they have the capital to get new hardware.

Furthermore, since they are charging double the hardware cost, they could buy double the hardware, basically using the customer as a loan for them to build a huge mining farm half of which is mining for them.

Power consumption aside - baseline - they are basically doubling their money on hardware. Further profit can be derived from merged mining. Even further profit can be derived from the fact that their fixed payment calculator accounts for avg 10 minute blocks. As difficulty increase approaches blocks are solved faster, and then when difficulty increase arrives they pay out less. They are mining more than they are paying out. Users, like me, are okay with this because of their guaranteed fixed payout rate.

At 375TH/s they are making about $4,423.36 per month just in NAMECOIN. There's room for profit. Could it be a scam? Sure. Does it scream scam from the hilltops? Nah.

There's a risk involved. There's a risk in pre-ordering hardware.

But if you're going to say it has to be a scam - at least try to back that point up with correct figures.

Isn't the Antminer S1 $1.18 per GH at the moment?

It's not even close to that cheap for an S1.  Bitmain has them for $2.59 per GH as of right now.  PBMining is mining at $2.20 per GH.  You're saying that PBMining worked out some kind of deal that got them a price lower than that, that factored in the 1100watts per unit power charge and somehow gives them a profit that pays for the management of this operation for a bunch of full time workers? 

Use your head.  It's a scam.

The Antminer S1 is nearly that cheap, for one thing. I'm sure if you're buying them in bulk you can get a discount as well...

Really?  Where?

ots hardware is avail@ .0025 btc/ghs or less

What he's saying is that the amount of Bitcoin earned is not based on anything but time.  You get instant payout by the second, simply by refreshing your browser.

And that there isn't cheap-enough hardware available, custom or otherwise, to allow them to provide the rates they are giving. 

Everything points to this being a scam. 

Greed blinds people. 

OK. Please check that screenshots with timestamps

http://imgur.com/EfWMmnY,JkHmGeI#0


After refreshing page same things.
I mean it looks very similar like deepakpore told amazing.
Each refresh give increasing value in BTC account.
They count not number of shares but exactly BTC.
I mine on that pool myself. You can join and check yourself.
Regards.

PPS like all other methods can only yield BTC reward after a block is found.
The only thing a pool could count you every second would be your number of shares of the total pie.

Since block duration is completely unknown, continiously counting BTC to an account (regardless of method block rewards are shared) is therefor impossible and any such figure has no credibility.

Not so amazing.
If you mine with f2pool same things because PPS.

Regards.

This one is amazing,
if you have brought a contract go to your own profile.
check your balance.
and refresh page.
without block findings pbmining.com will add money straight to your account every second.
amazing