PBmining - legit? - page 27. | Bitcointalksearch.org

SelbyTsang

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Quote from: tempestb on May 02, 2014, 12:52:11 PM

Difficulty is a moving target right now. As of this posting...

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/7149750ea6

It profits. But you see that the price of a coin is $450 right now and the difficulty per month went down by 1 percentage point. (These are all defaults, I modified nothing) All of that can change. It's a moving target.

In the setting, you just barely break even.
So, if difficulty goes lower than that, or bitcoin price goes higher than that, you should see profits, and vice versa.

tempestb

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Difficulty is a moving target right now. As of this posting...

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/7149750ea6

It profits. But you see that the price of a coin is $450 right now and the difficulty per month went down by 1 percentage point. (These are all defaults, I modified nothing) All of that can change. It's a moving target.

Syke

legendary

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Quote from: brian_23452 on May 02, 2014, 03:02:54 AM

Posting less than an hour after you:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/673794a076

All red.

Why don't YOU post a link that shows ROI? But please, without lowering the difficulty this time.

Tradeblock doesn't work well past a few months. The difficulty is not going to keep growing like that. PBMining could easily break even within a year, if they last that long. I really doubt they will.

brian_23452

sr. member

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Posting less than an hour after you:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/673794a076

All red.

Why don't YOU post a link that shows ROI? But please, without lowering the difficulty this time.

tempestb

hero member

Activity: 729

Merit: 500

Also, again you have the wrong numbers put in. They lowered their price to .0053 at the time of posting. Add 100 to GH and the share price so that it can do the percentages properly. (It's not the best calculator at low numbers) So act like you bought 100 shares and not 1 and you will get a more accurate display.

Note, as of 12:52am on 5/2 it profits. If you come on here two days later again and say it doesn't, check it again when they lower the price on PBMining, typically when the difficulty is recalculated. (Suspicious) And you'll find that it once again profits.

tempestb

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Quote from: brian_23452 on May 01, 2014, 06:53:47 PM

What? Why would I put April when it isn't April? It's May. Here it is again:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/9c7bd552ea

See when you ROI? Oh right, you don't, ever.

I give up trying to explain it to you, you obviously don't understand how Bitcoin works. The difficulty calculator is based on the current difficulty. You need the current price from PBMining and the current difficulty. If you put it into the future, even in the same month, the steps can be off because the difficulty rises every 10 days.

The entire reason for this thread here, is because it always returns on investment. That's the PROBLEM. In a normal world that shouldn't be the case because basically PBMining is saying you will always make money by investing with them. Between that and the money switching, it looks very much like a Ponzi scheme, but people are investing in it and taking a risk.

You sitting here telling people who know how to calculate difficulty that they will lose money is silly. You gotta learn more about what you're talking about before you argue it.

At the end of the day though, you'll probably end up right that it's a bad investment, but not because of why you think. It'll be because they'll vanish... maybe.

OC19850520

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Quote from: brian_23452 on May 01, 2014, 06:53:47 PM

What? Why would I put April when it isn't April? It's May. Here it is again:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/9c7bd552ea

See when you ROI? Oh right, you don't, ever.

You assume difficulty will go up so fast forever, but I dont think it is possible because at some point electricity cost more than you can mine with most effective 28nm ASIC miner.

brian_23452

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Quote from: tempestb on April 29, 2014, 11:36:11 PM

You're doing it wrong. The difficulty in May is 10 million and the PBMining price you set is .0056

The difficulty changed today. It is currently 8 million. And PBMining adjusted the price to .0053

Don't choose MAY. Stick with April since that is now, today's difficulty, and the difficulty is factored on that. If you choose May, it's 1 month in the future so it changes the difficulty to 10 million.

If you do it correctly, your investment profits.

What? Why would I put April when it isn't April? It's May. Here it is again:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/9c7bd552ea

See when you ROI? Oh right, you don't, ever.

tempestb

hero member

Activity: 729

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You're doing it wrong. The difficulty in May is 10 million and the PBMining price you set is .0056

The difficulty changed today. It is currently 8 million. And PBMining adjusted the price to .0053

Don't choose MAY. Stick with April since that is now, today's difficulty, and the difficulty is factored on that. If you choose May, it's 1 month in the future so it changes the difficulty to 10 million.

If you do it correctly, your investment profits.

brian_23452

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Quote from: tempestb on April 29, 2014, 11:15:59 PM

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 05:16:51 PM

Nevermind, I think I see why people buy these things, they don't get basic math. According to the calculator YOU linked to, 1gh/s purchased at 0.0056btc will never return 0.0056btc. Ever. I do see where you made your mistake, if you run the calculator starting in April it will eventually return more than 0.0056btc. But of course April is already over. Starting now, since pgmining doesn't seem to offer a time machine on their website, you can expect to get around 0.004 btc back by August.
Regarding your second point, you keep saying that if the price of btc goes up it makes this a profitable move. It doesn't. Obviously the dollar value of the btc you get back would go up in value, but then so does the dollar value of the cost you paid. One last time, paying 0.0056btc now to get 0.004btc later is not a good deal! And makes no difference what the btc is worth in dollars. But Im a very generous person. If you think it is such a good deal, I promise to give you 0.004btc in august for every 0.0056btc you give me now. Any reputable escrow service you wish to use.

You're not zeroing out the electrical costs, the accessory costs and the like. You pay none of that. You have to measure with the current difficulty vs what you're buying. It profits. Learn how to use the mining calculator. It's funny that you think you're smarter than all the miners. We must all be idiots right?

I explained the math on how mining makes more than holding, but you're not getting it. If you buy a Bitcoin and it becomes $4,000 in value. Great. Now, if I buy a miner for the same price that you bought the Bitcoin at. The only reason the miner ever stops making money is if the cost of electricity is higher than what it earns. If the value of Bitcoin reaches $4,000 then the miner WILL EARN MORE BITCOINS THEN I PAID FOR IT.

You say no, but that is incorrect. It's simple math.

I zeroed out all costs except the price of the hash. Here it is: https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/975f84599c
Notice if you change the value of bitcoin it does not change your bring even date (which is never)
Why do you keep bringing up miners? We aren't talking about purchasing miners. We're talking about purchasing a hashing contract.
And to answer your question, no I don't think you're all idiots. I think the only ones are idiots are the ones purchasing a contract that is clearly going to pay out less then the contract. On the contrary I think any miner who can sell their hashing power for more btc then it will ever create is a genius.

brian_23452

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Quote from: captgnh on April 29, 2014, 07:03:21 PM

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 05:16:51 PM

Quote from: tempestb on April 29, 2014, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 03:29:51 PM

None of that applies to a 5 year mining contract, since they are under contract to continue to provide the hashing power for 5 years whether it is economical to do so or not. This is simply basic math, the total proceeds from hashing for the entire 5 year contract come to be less than what it costs to purchase.

I don't think that's correct. The current cost of a gh on PBMining is 0.0056. https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/702307c1fb

It's profit by August forward. Assuming current BTC price remains constant. This is better than holding.

(Assuming not a ponzi for the purpose of this discussion only.)

I've already explained the apex where mining is worth more than holding, but you need a value around $4,000 for that to work out. Which isn't likely.

Nevermind, I think I see why people buy these things, they don't get basic math. According to the calculator YOU linked to, 1gh/s purchased at 0.0056btc will never return 0.0056btc. Ever. I do see where you made your mistake, if you run the calculator starting in April it will eventually return more than 0.0056btc. But of course April is already over. Starting now, since pgmining doesn't seem to offer a time machine on their website, you can expect to get around 0.004 btc back by August.
Regarding your second point, you keep saying that if the price of btc goes up it makes this a profitable move. It doesn't. Obviously the dollar value of the btc you get back would go up in value, but then so does the dollar value of the cost you paid. One last time, paying 0.0056btc now to get 0.004btc later is not a good deal! And makes no difference what the btc is worth in dollars. But Im a very generous person. If you think it is such a good deal, I promise to give you 0.004btc in august for every 0.0056btc you give me now. Any reputable escrow service you wish to use.

The dollar value of the cost I paid does not go up. It remains the same. If the BTC I am mining goes up so does my profit. Perhaps you need to re-think your argument. It is flawed. According to you, no one mining is making any money. What would happen if everyone stopped? If I listened to people like you, I would do nothing but purchase coins. Then what? Without miners, you have nothing. So get over it.

Huh? You aren't buying the shares with dollars. You are buying them with bitcoins. This really isn't that difficult to comprehend.
You and I each have 0.0056 bitcoins. You buy one of these shares. I don't. Bitcoin goes to the moon, and hits 10,000 dollars by august. You have 0.004btc worth 40 dollars. I have 0.0056btc worth 56 dollars. Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

tempestb

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Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 05:16:51 PM

Nevermind, I think I see why people buy these things, they don't get basic math. According to the calculator YOU linked to, 1gh/s purchased at 0.0056btc will never return 0.0056btc. Ever. I do see where you made your mistake, if you run the calculator starting in April it will eventually return more than 0.0056btc. But of course April is already over. Starting now, since pgmining doesn't seem to offer a time machine on their website, you can expect to get around 0.004 btc back by August.
Regarding your second point, you keep saying that if the price of btc goes up it makes this a profitable move. It doesn't. Obviously the dollar value of the btc you get back would go up in value, but then so does the dollar value of the cost you paid. One last time, paying 0.0056btc now to get 0.004btc later is not a good deal! And makes no difference what the btc is worth in dollars. But Im a very generous person. If you think it is such a good deal, I promise to give you 0.004btc in august for every 0.0056btc you give me now. Any reputable escrow service you wish to use.

You're not zeroing out the electrical costs, the accessory costs and the like. You pay none of that. You have to measure with the current difficulty vs what you're buying. It profits. Learn how to use the mining calculator. It's funny that you think you're smarter than all the miners. We must all be idiots right?

I explained the math on how mining makes more than holding, but you're not getting it. If you buy a Bitcoin and it becomes $4,000 in value. Great. Now, if I buy a miner for the same price that you bought the Bitcoin at. The only reason the miner ever stops making money is if the cost of electricity is higher than what it earns. If the value of Bitcoin reaches $4,000 then the miner WILL EARN MORE BITCOINS THEN I PAID FOR IT.

You say no, but that is incorrect. It's simple math.

hodlmybtc

hero member

Activity: 700

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I also won 20 GH/s in their giveaway so at least I make some profit Grin

captgnh

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Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 05:16:51 PM

Quote from: tempestb on April 29, 2014, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 03:29:51 PM

None of that applies to a 5 year mining contract, since they are under contract to continue to provide the hashing power for 5 years whether it is economical to do so or not. This is simply basic math, the total proceeds from hashing for the entire 5 year contract come to be less than what it costs to purchase.

I don't think that's correct. The current cost of a gh on PBMining is 0.0056. https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/702307c1fb

It's profit by August forward. Assuming current BTC price remains constant. This is better than holding.

(Assuming not a ponzi for the purpose of this discussion only.)

I've already explained the apex where mining is worth more than holding, but you need a value around $4,000 for that to work out. Which isn't likely.

Nevermind, I think I see why people buy these things, they don't get basic math. According to the calculator YOU linked to, 1gh/s purchased at 0.0056btc will never return 0.0056btc. Ever. I do see where you made your mistake, if you run the calculator starting in April it will eventually return more than 0.0056btc. But of course April is already over. Starting now, since pgmining doesn't seem to offer a time machine on their website, you can expect to get around 0.004 btc back by August.
Regarding your second point, you keep saying that if the price of btc goes up it makes this a profitable move. It doesn't. Obviously the dollar value of the btc you get back would go up in value, but then so does the dollar value of the cost you paid. One last time, paying 0.0056btc now to get 0.004btc later is not a good deal! And makes no difference what the btc is worth in dollars. But Im a very generous person. If you think it is such a good deal, I promise to give you 0.004btc in august for every 0.0056btc you give me now. Any reputable escrow service you wish to use.

The dollar value of the cost I paid does not go up. It remains the same. If the BTC I am mining goes up so does my profit. Perhaps you need to re-think your argument. It is flawed. According to you, no one mining is making any money. What would happen if everyone stopped? If I listened to people like you, I would do nothing but purchase coins. Then what? Without miners, you have nothing. So get over it.

brian_23452

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: tempestb on April 29, 2014, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 03:29:51 PM

None of that applies to a 5 year mining contract, since they are under contract to continue to provide the hashing power for 5 years whether it is economical to do so or not. This is simply basic math, the total proceeds from hashing for the entire 5 year contract come to be less than what it costs to purchase.

I don't think that's correct. The current cost of a gh on PBMining is 0.0056. https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/702307c1fb

It's profit by August forward. Assuming current BTC price remains constant. This is better than holding.

(Assuming not a ponzi for the purpose of this discussion only.)

I've already explained the apex where mining is worth more than holding, but you need a value around $4,000 for that to work out. Which isn't likely.

Nevermind, I think I see why people buy these things, they don't get basic math. According to the calculator YOU linked to, 1gh/s purchased at 0.0056btc will never return 0.0056btc. Ever. I do see where you made your mistake, if you run the calculator starting in April it will eventually return more than 0.0056btc. But of course April is already over. Starting now, since pgmining doesn't seem to offer a time machine on their website, you can expect to get around 0.004 btc back by August.
Regarding your second point, you keep saying that if the price of btc goes up it makes this a profitable move. It doesn't. Obviously the dollar value of the btc you get back would go up in value, but then so does the dollar value of the cost you paid. One last time, paying 0.0056btc now to get 0.004btc later is not a good deal! And makes no difference what the btc is worth in dollars. But Im a very generous person. If you think it is such a good deal, I promise to give you 0.004btc in august for every 0.0056btc you give me now. Any reputable escrow service you wish to use.

tempestb

hero member

Activity: 729

Merit: 500

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 03:29:51 PM

None of that applies to a 5 year mining contract, since they are under contract to continue to provide the hashing power for 5 years whether it is economical to do so or not. This is simply basic math, the total proceeds from hashing for the entire 5 year contract come to be less than what it costs to purchase.

I don't think that's correct. The current cost of a gh on PBMining is 0.0056. https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/702307c1fb

It's profit by August forward. Assuming current BTC price remains constant. This is better than holding.

(Assuming not a ponzi for the purpose of this discussion only.)

I've already explained the apex where mining is worth more than holding, but you need a value around $4,000 for that to work out. Which isn't likely.

brian_23452

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: tempestb on April 29, 2014, 02:05:59 PM

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 01:35:35 PM

Paying 1btc now to get .5 btc at some point in the future is not ever, under any circumstances, a good business decision.
It completely baffles me how some people can actually think that is a good deal.

You're mostly correct, there is some upper level Bitcoin price that it can rise to where Mining produces more profit than holding. That's because the miner becomes unprofitable to run after a period of time when the electricity exceeds the miner's ability to produce coins. However if the value of Bitcoin rises, the miner can run longer and produce more Bitcoins. So in theory instead of earning only 1 Bitcoin, it could earn 1.1 Bitcoin if the value is large enough to make it worthwhile to keep running.

The other thing, is that some people simply aren't good at holding. It takes patience and confidence. Mining sort of forces people to hold, but in a different way. So that if the value of the coin rises, they gain the FIAT by the slow return on mining vs cashing out the Bitcoins now for a smaller profit.

None of that applies to a 5 year mining contract, since they are under contract to continue to provide the hashing power for 5 years whether it is economical to do so or not. This is simply basic math, the total proceeds from hashing for the entire 5 year contract come to be less than what it costs to purchase.

tempestb

hero member

Activity: 729

Merit: 500

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 01:35:35 PM

Paying 1btc now to get .5 btc at some point in the future is not ever, under any circumstances, a good business decision.
It completely baffles me how some people can actually think that is a good deal.

You're mostly correct, there is some upper level Bitcoin price that it can rise to where Mining produces more profit than holding. That's because the miner becomes unprofitable to run after a period of time when the electricity exceeds the miner's ability to produce coins. However if the value of Bitcoin rises, the miner can run longer and produce more Bitcoins. So in theory instead of earning only 1 Bitcoin, it could earn 1.1 Bitcoin if the value is large enough to make it worthwhile to keep running.

The other thing, is that some people simply aren't good at holding. It takes patience and confidence. Mining sort of forces people to hold, but in a different way. So that if the value of the coin rises, they gain the FIAT by the slow return on mining vs cashing out the Bitcoins now for a smaller profit.

brian_23452

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Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: captgnh on April 29, 2014, 07:28:45 AM

Quote from: brian_23452 on April 29, 2014, 12:03:46 AM

Paying 1 BTC now to get 0.5-.6 BTC later is a losing move. It doesn't matter what bitcoin does, it can go up, it can go down, it can stay exactly the same as it is, you willingly, of your own free will, gave them money now, to get less than that back at some point in the future. It doesn't have to be a Ponzi scheme, you lost money on this deal either way.

I don't happen to agree with you. The Bitcoin I spent on this mining contract costs me approx. $435. If, for the sake of argument, the price of Bitcoin goes up to $600 or $700 or higher, the value of the Bitcoin I am mining goes up as well and it becomes a much more attractive value. That is simple arithmetic. Maybe PB Mining is counting on this as well. According to everything I read, the general ongoing acceptance of Bitcoin worldwide and Wall Street's new involvment, I would say that's a given. Only time will tell. So far I have not lost a dime. I am certainly making more on my investment than a savings account, money market fund or the stock market. If, and it is a big if, I get ripped off, I will deduct it from my taxes and move on. I don't feel like playing the safe game. It gets you even less.

You completely miss the point. If bitcoin goes down, you lose money obviously. If bitcoin stays the same, you lose money. If bitcoin goes up, you make money yes, but a lot less money than you would have made if you cut out the middle man and just bought the bitcoin directly. You can't seem to understand this. They may or may not be a scam but it makes no difference. They don't have to be a scam for it to be a terrible deal. They could be exactly what they say they are and it is still a terrible deal.
I'll say it one more time:

Paying 1btc now to get .5 btc at some point in the future is not ever, under any circumstances, a good business decision.
It completely baffles me how some people can actually think that is a good deal.

ChuckBuck

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better everyday ♥

Quote from: Domino on April 29, 2014, 08:27:50 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 29, 2014, 08:10:43 AM

Quote from: gagalady on April 29, 2014, 07:50:36 AM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 25, 2014, 09:04:57 AM

PBmining or "Ponzi backed" mining.

Has a nice ring to it! Grin

I could say they are legit because I'm using them and already got my first payment so i got no complains so far but their site is pretty new If i'm not wrong so It's your choice to use them or not but from my experience i would recommend them.

You get payments now. Will you continue to in Year 2 through 5? Or will you be "forced" to reinvest? Or will they just up and vanish one day in year 2 through 5?

Something you'll have to ask at some point with basically a 5 year contract.

The main thing is if you can find out if they actually have mining equipment. So far there's been no proof given yet.

Indeed, this is true for all cloudmining sites.
With cloud mining, you don't need to do maintenance yourself, but you need to trust the site owners.

I know Cloudhashing.com is legit, have bought thousands of miners, have a few datacenters around the world.

Too bad their rates suck.

Topic: PBmining - legit? - page 27. (Read 67922 times)