Topic: Petition to remove Wasabi from recommendations of bitcoin.org - page 11. (Read 2983 times)

Why should a user be warned about using Wasabi?


Why should a user be cautioned about using Wasabi?

You are fabricating the existence of some sort of threat to users of the software when there is not, which everyone can verify for themselves since it is entirely open source.

Yeah, Kruwed on GitHub is surely the Kruw we have learned to love here on Bitcointalk.

It shouldn't have a 'Good' rating in the privacy category. If it was up to me, I would take it down to 'Acceptable', maybe even 'Caution'.

We should then create a petition to have everyone abandon bitcoin.org and move over to the new and forked website.

It's interesting to see that discussion continues even on github with one of wasabi contributors, propagandist, and probably team member.
However, I don't expect to see wasabi removed from recommended wallets in bitcoin.org website, but maybe they should add some type of warning.
Maybe someone should fork or create alternative for bitcoin.org website, and remove wasabi wallet.
I liked wasabi v1 but this version is awful and it has very bad interface.

Wasabi does not stop being privacy software just because a business does not want to accept your money.  You can use any coordinator with Wasabi, including your own.  The signers of this petition can simply coordinate coinjoins among themselves since they are all united in their decision not to use the default coordinator, and no one could stop you:

Just stop it with your propaganda and sweeping the issue under the carpet. You know what I am talking about. Multiple people have said it in many different ways in the Wasabi thread. Do we really have to talk about it here as well? Fine.

Many users, me included, don't consider Wasabi a privacy tool anymore because your default and most popular Wasabi coordinator allows a malicious entity (blockchain analysis company) to tag UTXOs and put them in different categories based on their level of naughty. It matters not one bit whether you do it personally, or you listen to what your blockchain analysis buddies say. The fact remains that if my coins are considered dirty enough, I am not going to get any privacy from you. And who knows what your malicious blockchain partners will do with that information. I doubt they will just put it on file and do nothing when it can be sold or shared with government agencies for profit or favors.

It's time you stopped playing naive and trying to divert the attention from that. I will not grow tired mentioning it unless you stop trying to hide it by highlighting other features of your software. And me not supporting Wasabi to be removed from bitcoin.org does not affect my opinion about what you deem to be the ultimate bitcoin privacy software.       

What I define as nefarious in this context are anti-Bitcoin entites either open or in secret which their goal is to co-opt Bitcoin and compromise it. It's not what I see in WasabiWallet. They are simply too small because their market demograpic is too small. We can always tell our fellow plebs to avoid using their centralized coordinator.

Plus what I see in Wasabi is a group of developers who believe that there's more incentives for them financially and for their security if they filter out "questionable" UTXOs.

"Enforcing government sanctioned blacklists", no they can't and "censoring their users", no they're not. They're merely filtering UTXOs that enter THEIR centralized service.

I'm not saying that the community shouldn't inform the public, in fact I believe we should, but avoid drama. It was good during the first few moments, but currently it's making us look like a group of Karens.

Your privacy is completely protected when using Wasabi.  By default, it uses Tor to mask your IP address for all network connections and compact block filters to mask your xpub address when discovering the balance in your wallet's addresses.

I have no objections to what you are saying and agree with every word. However, those are mainly privacy-related problems. Being spied on by blockchain analysis and having your UTXOs checked for naughtiness. You can't force people to be privacy-conscious or force them to act according to what you believe is the proper way in terms of privacy. Not you personally, I am just saying.

Since this is supposed to be a privacy-software, but isn't, I'd like to see the right warnings and banners informing unsuspecting users of what they are doing behind the stage. If the wallet had poor security, which results in coins miraculously disappearing and getting stuck and becoming unobtainable, I would vote to get rid of it from the recommendations.

Having said all this, I am really curious of what actions (if any) Cobra will take. 

They are directly funding blockchain analysis companies, which are the exact same companies providing flawed evidence to the government to prosecute privacy devs for writing code. They are enforcing government sanctioned blacklists and censoring their users. They are enforcing the concept that bitcoin is not fungible. In what way is any of that not nefarious?

THAT'S IT! That's why I believe we're becoming Crypto-Karens because of our insistence of this issue. Cobra won't remove WasabiWallet unless they're confirmed to be nefarious people who are there to co-opt Bitcoin. They're actually not. Wasabi developers merely accepted the trade-off and hired the services of some Blockchain Intelligence Agency, the B.I.A. to protect zkSNACKS and themselves from the authorities.

Sorry, I don't think it's going to happen. I have had my share of problems with their representative Kruw in the Wasabi thread like some other members here, and have a very bad opinion of him. Still, I don't see Wasabi as a malicious entity that would require it be removed from bitcoin.org. Proper warnings about their activities and partnership with blockchain analysis should be posted though, and I would support that any day of the week. Any time they call themselves a privacy tool should be corrected that they aren't, etc. 

Github issue created: https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/Bitcoin.org/issues/4097.  Voting with thumbs up from your github account would help.

Coinjoining with whirlpool is the next option you're looking for.

You forgot the part where they're lying about it. They don't even believe how dumb that is, so it's quite difficult to support that "update" and be honest simultaneously. Have a look at zkSNACKs' official website: https://zksnacks.com/. "Privacy for everyone in the digital age". Apparently, not for those you dislike. 

Long story short: Wasabi likely got warned by governments and 3-letter agencies so they had to either join the opposition or stop their Wasabi business entirely. They chose the former, went public about it and they’re now trying to convince us that their partnership with blockchain analysis corps is the ultimate solution to Bitcoin’s privacy. They basically sold themselves and they’re trying to manipulate everyone else into thinking it’s the best thing that’s ever happened.

In fact, Wasabi is a software that works as a wallet and allows direct interaction with a mixing protocol, meaning that they are not a mixing protocol or a mixer. If any of the existing mixers were combined with any wallet, we would get similar results, exactly as it happened with the Samurai wallet.

Most mixers will not do this because they are forced to release open source software and a wallet that many people trust, which is a headache compared to creating online website.

A middle option is to make Coinjoin Electrum plugin So far, I wonder why no mixer has worked in such implementation even CM was a dead one.

I've been hearing a lot of complaints about Wasabi lately, I've read in more than one place about some negative things about Wasabi wallet that made me wonder what's going on? I remember Wasabi being among the good privacy wallets, but maybe they seem to be hypocritical to get government approval.

Sending an email to bitcoin.org explaining your dissatisfaction with Wasabi might help a bit, but it's better to spread awareness in the Bitcoin community about the downsides of a wallet and ultimately everyone gets to decide which wallet is right for keeping their coins and privacy.

Then they should shut up and stop mocking their previous customers and attacking them. They're taking the wrong road, not us. I don't think we're "Karens". They received a ton of support and love from us back when they were telling the truth (hopefully). I used to strongly suggest and support their Docs, which at the time were extremely useful to anyone who wanted to know more about Bitcoin privacy, with or without being interested in Wasabi's product.

But it's a bad ending anyway. We shut up and Wasabi and everyone else gets the "empathy" and by the end of the day everyone's gonna just accept this as Bitcoin's fate, every company will have no more respect for their clients' privacy, we introduce taint as if it ever was a thing, governments are happy, Wasabi's devs are happy with their fulfilled pockets and we, the customers, are the ones to suffer. But this is a domino in the making. Look at CEX's! Nobody said a thing about KYC and now how many CEX's still allow you to trade without KYC? Pretty much none! This is a war that began more than 6 years ago, I will never forget the day Bittrex suddenly changed their policy to being able to withdraw only if KYC is fulfilled. Robbers! Now they're under bankruptcy and I received an e-mail that I can withdraw my coins. Jokes on you, they're still impossible to withdraw unless.. you guessed it, unless I send my KYC info. Look at ATMs in the US! How many of them have no KYC for purchases and sells? That's arrived in the EU as well now, it's getting less and less free and they're taking our privacy away entirely. Look at Ledger! They're turning their "your seed never leaves the hardware" into a "pay to get the seed to a safe place"! Empathy and care for what? I'm sick of this all!! I challenge you: take a break of at least half an year from crypto and come back. You'll be surprised to see how quickly privacy is being demolished. I'm sick of liars, I'm sick of pretending everything's fine, because it's not! I'm literally looking at the people I used to admire with disgust and feeling betrayed. They've done what I thought they'll always fight against. Work with Coinfirm, deceive new customers into believing you're the ultimate solution to privacy and argue with those blaming you for what you're doing. I'm sick of it!! Does it look like showing empathy really works as a solution?

They are clear on that agenda like they have specified in their SEC filing also that if any case they go bankrupt the users funds will be used to pay off any liabilities although not too much advertising about it but still better then claiming like your funds are yours.They are also among those platforms who doesn't care about your privacy putting restrictions on withdrawal but when we talk about Wasabi then it seems like decent options who are not cheating with the users trying to scam them.

It ends when there's no entity that violates basic principles.

We're not attacking anyone. We're merely trying to defend. When someone provably malicious tries to manipulate newcomers, the least we can do is warn for their behavior.

Manipulating newcomers and portraying yourself as the ultimate privacy solution, at the same time when you're cooperating with mass surveillance firm, lying and failing to provide those levels of privacy is an attack to part of the Bitcoin network.

I'm merely saying that we should avoid being too much of a Karen, because if we're successful in cancelling Wasabi and nopara37, who knows where it ends? Who does the community attack next for the trade-offs taken by some developers? It's a dangerous path, and I'm just asking for a little care and empathy, and a little understanding on why some developers make unpopular decisions.

It's not as if nopara73 is attacking the network like what the NYA signatories did, so let's breathe deeply and relax.