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Topic: [Photo] First of 2013 Casascius Silver Coins Now Available For Sale - page 6. (Read 15863 times)

donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
Casascius has been sending unfunded coins for a long time now, for the simple reason that there is a risk of theft in mail - a risk much higher than Casascius being randomly killed.

no, the reason is import tax and customs fees and stuff. He will fund the coins even if they get stolen.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1009
So is there an order cutoff date for being included in the "first batch"?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500

Casascius has been sending unfunded coins for a long time now, for the simple reason that there is a risk of theft in mail - a risk much higher than Casascius being randomly killed. Really it's to protect the buyer - how would you feel if your coin arrived opened and drained, or not at all?  You think Casascius wants to deal with people demanding their bitcoins back because of mail theft when it's easy and secure to fund the coins on arrival?

In any case, it's a non-issue as these foreign buyers just want a different invoice so they have to pay less VATS.


Fair shout; I have more trust in Casascius than I do in FedEx or the mail system in general.  This is my first large (well large by my standards) purchase with bitcoin, so just feeling a little skittish. I don't intend on redeeming the coins for at least a decade, so a slight delay in funding isn't really a big deal.  I do plan on using them to help explain bitcoin to some people that are interested but have reservations due to the lack of it being tangible.
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
Out of curiosity, how many of these silver coins are you producing this year?
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
Doesn't this amount to making you an interest free loan until the point the coins are actually funded?

Unless you were planning on immediately opening your coin upon receipt and investing the bitcoins, what's the difference to you? You could've saved a lot of time by not buying the coin in the first place.

Quote
What happens if you get hit by a beer truck between when they ship and when you intended to fund them?

Probably the same thing as if he gets hit by a beer truck between the time you sent your payment and the time he ships. IIRC, Casascius has a pretty robust dead man's switch in place for his business.

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I don't feel particularly comfortable receiving unfunded coins and bearing that risk just to help foreign buyers get their coins through customs cheaper.

Casascius has been sending unfunded coins for a long time now, for the simple reason that there is a risk of theft in mail - a risk much higher than Casascius being randomly killed. Really it's to protect the buyer - how would you feel if your coin arrived opened and drained, or not at all?  You think Casascius wants to deal with people demanding their bitcoins back because of mail theft when it's easy and secure to fund the coins on arrival?

In any case, it's a non-issue as these foreign buyers just want a different invoice so they have to pay less VATS.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
Doesn't this amount to making you an interest free loan until the point the coins are actually funded?

Yes.

What happens if you get hit by a beer truck between when they ship and when you intended to fund them?

Then you will own a truly rare specimen: an unfunded Casascius coin in the wild - and in the wake of my unexpected death it will probably fetch no less than your initial cost on ebay, even being short the funds.  You'll make out just fine!  On top of that, whoever handles my estate will probably be able to fund your coin anyway -- assuming you value it more being funded versus unfunded.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
I think what I am going to do is, when I get all these initial orders shipped, I may wait to fund them so that the FIRST funding transaction funds as many as possible, to give them "first batch" distinction.  That might mean that those who get them the quickest might have to wait 7-10 days for me to fund them to let others catch up.  I'm curious on others' opinions.  If I don't do this, then only US buyers would have a chance to get "first batch" coins because theirs will arrive the fastest.

If I do this, I will at least publish where the funds are, so everyone can see they're just sitting there and not accruing "interest" in a ponzi scheme.

(These won't have incrementing addresses like my newest brass coins do... I will just be using the 1Ag* addresses I already generated long ago, in truly random order, since I have so many of them that aren't used)

Doesn't this amount to making you an interest free loan until the point the coins are actually funded? What happens if you get hit by a beer truck between when they ship and when you intended to fund them?  I don't feel particularly comfortable receiving unfunded coins and bearing that risk just to help foreign buyers get their coins through customs cheaper.
tlr
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
What size Air-Tite cases do these fit in?
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
I think what I am going to do is, when I get all these initial orders shipped, I may wait to fund them so that the FIRST funding transaction funds as many as possible, to give them "first batch" distinction.  That might mean that those who get them the quickest might have to wait 7-10 days for me to fund them to let others catch up.  I'm curious on others' opinions.  If I don't do this, then only US buyers would have a chance to get "first batch" coins because theirs will arrive the fastest.

If I do this, I will at least publish where the funds are, so everyone can see they're just sitting there and not accruing "interest" in a ponzi scheme.

(These won't have incrementing addresses like my newest brass coins do... I will just be using the 1Ag* addresses I already generated long ago, in truly random order, since I have so many of them that aren't used)

For what it's worth, waiting a week or two for the coins to be loaded is not an issue for me.
tlr
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
Not wanting to sound stupid but why is the 1BTC priced at 2.5BTC?!

Because it's made of pure silver, and it's really pretty.

To be clear, there's only about 0.2 BTC worth of silver in each of these. But they are really pretty and I'll probably be buying some.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
Molecular: I could offer deferred loading but strictly for customs purposes and not as an anti-loss measure.  In other words all coins you get must eventually be funded.

Does Germany charge VAT on the premium or just the silver?  And is Einfuhrumsatzsteuer something in addition to VAT (which I understood was Mehrwertsteuer last I was there)

Yes, I want deferred loading purely for customs purposes, not anti-loss measure.

Einfuhrumsatzsteuer is VAT. Umsatzsteuer and Mehrwertsteuer are the same. So Einfuhrumsatzsteuer is "import VAT".

import VAT is charged on the premium also and yes, it would even be charged on the bitcoin value of the coins if they were loaded. Therefore I agree with 2weix that it's probably best to use 2 invoices (see his post #37
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1005
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Molecular: I could offer deferred loading but strictly for customs purposes and not as an anti-loss measure.  In other words all coins you get must eventually be funded.

Does Germany charge VAT on the premium or just the silver?  And is Einfuhrumsatzsteuer something in addition to VAT (which I understood was Mehrwertsteuer last I was there)


VAT is the equivalent of Einfuhrumsatzsteuer.
I edited my above post to answer your question while you were posting it^^
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
Molecular: I could offer deferred loading but strictly for customs purposes and not as an anti-loss measure.  In other words all coins you get must eventually be funded.

Does Germany charge VAT on the premium or just the silver?  And is Einfuhrumsatzsteuer something in addition to VAT (which I understood was Mehrwertsteuer last I was there)
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1005
this space intentionally left blank
just placed an order with you, mike.
noticed the substancial (!) premium over silver. phew!

anyways. also ordering with you if you're ready, smoothie.

Please share you customs experience with us. You probably have other experience importing silver to germany... can you share it?


You pay 19% on the silver value.
100oz of silver @ 14€ = 1400€ * 0.19 = 266€ Einfuhrumsatzsteuer.

Sadly, customs are going by the value ON THE INVOICE, so if I buy 20oz at a 250% premium, I will pay 250% premium on my VAT as well!
100oz of silver @ 24€ = 2400€ * 0.19 = 456€ Einfuhrumsatzsteuer.


That's why an invoice stating "100oz .999 silver rounds" with the silver spot price denominated in USD is probably the best way to bill the goods, with the funding of the coins AND the premium of manufacturing invoiced seperately!


so preferrably:

a) pay the silver
c) pay the premium +  funding

this may all be consolidated in the FINAL receipt, but should be separated for shipping.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1009
Not wanting to sound stupid but why is the 1BTC priced at 2.5BTC?!

Because it's made of pure silver, and it's really pretty.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 501
Not wanting to sound stupid but why is the 1BTC priced at 2.5BTC?!
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
They're really nice!

Are you considering making them with the BTC in gold (like before)?

Thanks!
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
I think what I am going to do is, when I get all these initial orders shipped, I may wait to fund them so that the FIRST funding transaction funds as many as possible, to give them "first batch" distinction.  That might mean that those who get them the quickest might have to wait 7-10 days for me to fund them to let others catch up.  I'm curious on others' opinions.  If I don't do this, then only US buyers would have a chance to get "first batch" coins because theirs will arrive the fastest.

If I do this, I will at least publish where the funds are, so everyone can see they're just sitting there and not accruing "interest" in a ponzi scheme.

That's a good idea.

Since you didn't answer about my "billing" suggestion above, I take it you're reluctant to do this?
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1009
I think what I am going to do is, when I get all these initial orders shipped, I may wait to fund them so that the FIRST funding transaction funds as many as possible, to give them "first batch" distinction.

This would be extra special for the silver halfs with the Series 2 hologram Smiley
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
I think what I am going to do is, when I get all these initial orders shipped, I may wait to fund them so that the FIRST funding transaction funds as many as possible, to give them "first batch" distinction.  That might mean that those who get them the quickest might have to wait 7-10 days for me to fund them to let others catch up.  I'm curious on others' opinions.  If I don't do this, then only US buyers would have a chance to get "first batch" coins because theirs will arrive the fastest.

If I do this, I will at least publish where the funds are, so everyone can see they're just sitting there and not accruing "interest" in a ponzi scheme.

(These won't have incrementing addresses like my newest brass coins do... I will just be using the 1Ag* addresses I already generated long ago, in truly random order, since I have so many of them that aren't used)
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