Topic: Physical Casinos Decoded : - page 9. (Read 3374 times)

Quote from: deisik on July 01, 2020, 11:57:22 AM

And who is to decide on what constitutes a conviction and what not, criminal or otherwise?

Right, it is the task for a court of law in any conventional jurisdiction. So it may or may not be enough, but no matter the circumstances and evidence, neither the casino nor the police can convict anyone on their own (unless we are in some dystopian future where "I'm the law"). Technically, in many jurisdictions police can give you a warning without going to court if you admit an offence, or impose a fine on you, which you are entitled to challenge before a court of law by claiming, for example, you were forced to make and sign the statement (or just want to throw a Hail Mary)

Only a court can convict a person, of course. However, the police or Prosecutor's office can evaluate the evidence and decide whether to open a criminal case. And whether there is enough evidence for a conviction

And this basically leaves out the casino

Which was the entire point. To sum it up, they can't arrest, convict, or punish anyone on their own (other than by firing them). All a casino can do is report on an employee who they think colluded with the gamblers. Indeed, this is only applicable to legal establishments as your adventures in an illegal one can end with a very different outcome (pun intended), both as a player and as a dealer (if it comes to that)

We only talk about legal casinos and only about legal methods of punishment. Naturally, they will hand over the violator of the law to law enforcement agencies

They can't arrest anyone

And thus they can't "hand over" anyone either. If they try to pull off that thing, they may end up a violator even if the fact of the collusion gets confirmed in the court. So, as long as we are talking about legal methods, all they can do is call the cops. And this is what happens when you call the cops in America

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Quote from: FontSeli on July 01, 2020, 05:38:17 AM

Quote from: FontSeli on July 01, 2020, 05:38:17 AM

And who is to decide on what constitutes a conviction and what not, criminal or otherwise?

Right, it is the task for a court of law in any conventional jurisdiction. So it may or may not be enough, but no matter the circumstances and evidence, neither the casino nor the police can convict anyone on their own (unless we are in some dystopian future where "I'm the law"). Technically, in many jurisdictions police can give you a warning without going to court if you admit an offence, or impose a fine on you, which you are entitled to challenge before a court of law by claiming, for example, you were forced to make and sign the statement (or just want to throw a Hail Mary)

Only a court can convict a person, of course. However, the police or Prosecutor's office can evaluate the evidence and decide whether to open a criminal case. And whether there is enough evidence for a conviction

And this basically leaves out the casino

Which was the entire point. To sum it up, they can't arrest, convict, or punish anyone on their own (other than by firing them). All a casino can do is report on an employee who they think colluded with the gamblers. Indeed, this is only applicable to legal establishments as your adventures in an illegal one can end with a very different outcome (pun intended), both as a player and as a dealer (if it comes to that)

We only talk about legal casinos and only about legal methods of punishment. Naturally, they will hand over the violator of the law to law enforcement agencies.
I'm afraid to even imagine what can be done with a cheater in an illegal casino. Perhaps he will never be able to deceive anyone again)

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 30, 2020, 05:00:12 AM

And who is to decide on what constitutes a conviction and what not, criminal or otherwise?

Right, it is the task for a court of law in any conventional jurisdiction. So it may or may not be enough, but no matter the circumstances and evidence, neither the casino nor the police can convict anyone on their own (unless we are in some dystopian future where "I'm the law"). Technically, in many jurisdictions police can give you a warning without going to court if you admit an offence, or impose a fine on you, which you are entitled to challenge before a court of law by claiming, for example, you were forced to make and sign the statement (or just want to throw a Hail Mary)

Only a court can convict a person, of course. However, the police or Prosecutor's office can evaluate the evidence and decide whether to open a criminal case. And whether there is enough evidence for a conviction

And this basically leaves out the casino

Which was the entire point. To sum it up, they can't arrest, convict, or punish anyone on their own (other than by firing them). All a casino can do is report on an employee who they think colluded with the gamblers. Indeed, this is only applicable to legal establishments as your adventures in an illegal one can end with a very different outcome (pun intended), both as a player and as a dealer (if it comes to that)

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Quote from: Sanitough on June 30, 2020, 06:12:28 AM

If it is established that the player and the dealer colluded. Wouldn't that be considered fraud?

Who established that, the casino?

If so, they don't even need an investigation into the matter, as in this case they can be the law unto themselves as well as the law enforcement agency. If we are talking about legal institutions, though, the fact of collusion can only be established in the court of law after the plaintiff reveals all of their evidence to that effect and the judge finds this evidence convincing and sufficient

Here is one case in the Philippines wherein the card dealer was colluding with his friends and has raked a total of 5 million PHP or roughly $100K. They did some investigations, and then called NBI (local FBI) and the police made the arrest on the casino floor itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhXNj87TNiE

Yes, it was sensationalised here in the Philippines when that news came out and if I'm not mistaken, that casino is Resorts World Manila, one of the big three here. 5 Mil PHP is already a big amount that those group try to milk the casino itself. Haven't heard what happened to that group, but I would certainly say that those people are going behind bars for what they did to the casino itself.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on June 30, 2020, 05:55:18 AM

We can read huge wins from slot machine but its rate to find high consecutive wins so the probability of people keep winning on slot machine is rare so we can't find those gamblers were kicked from casinos. Wink

Getting kicked in a casino would only happen if a gambler are caught cheating, it's very clear, you can cheat but don't get caught so you'll not pay the prize.

We all know that casinos are into profit, but there are also gamblers who are winning most of the time but I don't think casinos would not mind that as long as they'll be profitable in overall. When there are winners that means casinos are legit, they only win because of their advantage and that would attract gamblers as well.

Casinos will start noticing if you are winning in a streak on luck-based game and if you are cheating then it won't take too long to identify it from their side.But chances of cheating in luck based game is less to none that is why gambling sites are in profits for their lifetime.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on June 28, 2020, 01:08:21 PM

And who is to decide on what constitutes a conviction and what not, criminal or otherwise?

Right, it is the task for a court of law in any conventional jurisdiction. So it may or may not be enough, but no matter the circumstances and evidence, neither the casino nor the police can convict anyone on their own (unless we are in some dystopian future where "I'm the law"). Technically, in many jurisdictions police can give you a warning without going to court if you admit an offence, or impose a fine on you, which you are entitled to challenge before a court of law by claiming, for example, you were forced to make and sign the statement (or just want to throw a Hail Mary)

Only a court can convict a person, of course. However, the police or Prosecutor's office can evaluate the evidence and decide whether to open a criminal case. And whether there is enough evidence for a conviction.

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Quote from: FontSeli on June 27, 2020, 05:29:10 PM

Quote from: carlfebz2 on June 27, 2020, 05:16:51 PM

When it comes to multiple big wins on a consecutive manner or lets say hitting up continuously then im not surprised if those casinos would kick you out since you would be definitely

the culprit for their business to be on the unprofitable side.Making out alibis or reason for you to be cheating so that you wont able to play further but in most cases its already too late or the damage
had been done already.

There are lots of situations of this kind.

And isn't there a clause in the rules of most casinos that they can refuse to serve a visitor without explaining the reasons? I think on the basis of this, they can't allow to play people who often win, but their cheating is not proven.

Yes they can, maybe not legally but still they can refuse any player from entering into their casinos because casinos owned by private has their own rules as well. The same thing also happens with online casinos as well when someone win bigger they will be accused for some kind of cheating and their funds will be on hold forever.

I guess they are refusing certain people to avoid losing too much to them. Well, this will be somewhat justified if they are doing thesame to people who are vulnerable to taking big risk and losing hugh part of their weekly/monthly earnings to their casinos.
They seem to love themselves more

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Quote from: FontSeli on June 30, 2020, 05:26:20 PM

Quote from: shoreno on June 30, 2020, 05:30:52 AM

If it is established that the player and the dealer colluded. Wouldn't that be considered fraud?

Who established that, the casino?

If so, they don't even need an investigation into the matter, as in this case they can be the law unto themselves as well as the law enforcement agency. If we are talking about legal institutions, though, the fact of collusion can only be established in the court of law after the plaintiff reveals all of their evidence to that effect and the judge finds this evidence convincing and sufficient

The security service may find that the dealer deliberately lets a particular player win. This will be recorded by surveillance cameras. Various adaptations can be found.
Casino employees will call the police, provide them with video footage, physical evidence, and witness statements.
If collusion fraud took place, wouldn't that be enough for a conviction?

And who is to decide on what constitutes a conviction and what not, criminal or otherwise?

Right, it is the task for a court of law in any conventional jurisdiction. So it may or may not be enough, but no matter the circumstances and evidence, neither the casino nor the police can convict anyone on their own (unless we are in some dystopian future where "I'm the law"). Technically, in many jurisdictions police can give you a warning without going to court if you admit an offence, or impose a fine on you, which you are entitled to challenge before a court of law by claiming, for example, you were forced to make and sign the statement (or just want to throw a Hail Mary)

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on June 30, 2020, 05:13:28 AM

I think not just food and drinks, and they will offer other bonuses to us so that we will stay for a long time in their place. When you get drunks, it will be easy for them to keep you playing gambling without thinking that is enough for you. You can not deny what they want if you are drunk because they make you drink so many glasses or bottles. They will know that you still have money to spend on gambling games, and even if you lose your money, they will offer you to take a loan from them.

thats so desperate if what you were saying is true but i feel no . a casino offer drinks or bonus but they dont do it on a forced manner like its obvious for you to see it . they wont offer strong alcoholic drinks but those are just light wines like what we saw on formal ocassions . if players got drunk , players can do silly things and they dont like that to happen. havent heard a casino that offers loan but thats risky because they can hire someone to beat you up once you cant paid on time , just like i see on movies

They will not have a forced manner to the gamblers, but they will use a smooth way without any hard feeling anything. The casino knows how to treat the rich gamblers, so they don't decide to stop quickly, but they will only spend more money to play other gambling games. Maybe they will also offer a girl to that rich person to join with them or sit beside them because the casino will do anything to make that person comfortable with their services.

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Quote from: judeafante on June 30, 2020, 06:29:20 AM

If it is established that the player and the dealer colluded. Wouldn't that be considered fraud?

Who established that, the casino?

If so, they don't even need an investigation into the matter, as in this case they can be the law unto themselves as well as the law enforcement agency. If we are talking about legal institutions, though, the fact of collusion can only be established in the court of law after the plaintiff reveals all of their evidence to that effect and the judge finds this evidence convincing and sufficient

The security service may find that the dealer deliberately lets a particular player win. This will be recorded by surveillance cameras. Various adaptations can be found.
Casino employees will call the police, provide them with video footage, physical evidence, and witness statements.
If collusion fraud took place, wouldn't that be enough for a conviction?

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Quote from: deisik on June 30, 2020, 05:41:41 AM

It actually proves my point

That many casinos are a law unto themselves. You wouldn't really be surprised to find out that a casino is oiling local police's palm, would you? I wouldn't, either. Anyway, you intuitively expect such things from these extremely shady operations. Legally speaking, it is the police who should do the investigations, and then a judge should order an arrest warrant. Indeed, there are different jurisdictions with different laws (as well as lack of any, while we are at it), but then we are back to square one, i.e. walk away from brick'n'mortar casinos and spare yourself a lot of trouble

Gambling casinos are like a house of prey once inside they want you to shelve out cash, they make feel very special, and because of that you are obliged to play and to shelve out, you won't even notice that you are already losing a lot of money, because they provide you with everything including loan shark and credit line.

You'll know when you are losing when you are borrowing money already and those loan shark won't lend money to a gambler if it's not regular or does not have a collateral, what you are talking is another level already. For most gamblers, all they want is just to have fun and win, but they know that winning is just a bonus as most of the time when gamblers are into a casino, they lose all their money.

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Quote from: deisik on June 30, 2020, 05:41:41 AM

It actually proves my point

That many casinos are a law unto themselves. You wouldn't really be surprised to find out that a casino is oiling local police's palm, would you? I wouldn't, either. Anyway, you intuitively expect such things from these extremely shady operations. Legally speaking, it is the police who should do the investigations, and then a judge should order an arrest warrant. Indeed, there are different jurisdictions with different laws (as well as lack of any, while we are at it), but then we are back to square one, i.e. walk away from brick'n'mortar casinos and spare yourself a lot of trouble

Gambling casinos are like a house of prey once inside they want you to shelve out cash, they make feel very special, and because of that you are obliged to play and to shelve out, you won't even notice that you are already losing a lot of money, because they provide you with everything including loan shark and credit line.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on June 30, 2020, 05:55:18 AM

We can read huge wins from slot machine but its rate to find high consecutive wins so the probability of people keep winning on slot machine is rare so we can't find those gamblers were kicked from casinos. Wink

Getting kicked in a casino would only happen if a gambler are caught cheating, it's very clear, you can cheat but don't get caught so you'll not pay the prize.

We all know that casinos are into profit, but there are also gamblers who are winning most of the time but I don't think casinos would not mind that as long as they'll be profitable in overall. When there are winners that means casinos are legit, they only win because of their advantage and that would attract gamblers as well.

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 29, 2020, 08:00:03 AM

Quote from: Findingnemo on June 27, 2020, 09:53:41 AM

Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 27, 2020, 04:24:27 AM

Lol, a couple of players winning big in a casino won't mean that they will go bankrupt. Remember that it is a business and they have deep pockets to begin with. I'm not sure if you have been in a physical casinos, because everyday there are literally gamblers winning jackpot in slots but it doesn't mean that casinos will suddenly file for bankruptcy. And I don't think that you will get an outright ban if you win big. Casinos are more intelligent than that, they investigate first before banning someone, just not in their casino, but I'm sure that the word will go out in other casinos. So it will take time, unless as I have said you cheated your way.

If a gambler keep hitting too much jackpots on game like blackjack then they will be surely kicked out from the casinos and they will tell that you are cheating the game by counting cards which is actually impossible to prove by them but still they will ban you based on suspicious causes.

You can check forum like reddit to see how man people were kicked our from casinos for no reasons.

Blackjack is different though, there's no such thing as jackpot on them, and I do hope you know that blackjack has the highest odds of winning. If you are talking like slots games and winning jackpot then there's no way that you can simply be kick on ban just because you are lucky or really be rigging the machine itself which the mafia has done before but eventually they have been caught.

We can read huge wins from slot machine but its rate to find high consecutive wins so the probability of people keep winning on slot machine is rare so we can't find those gamblers were kicked from casinos. Wink

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 30, 2020, 05:00:12 AM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on June 30, 2020, 05:13:28 AM

If it is established that the player and the dealer colluded. Wouldn't that be considered fraud?

Who established that, the casino?

If so, they don't even need an investigation into the matter, as in this case they can be the law unto themselves as well as the law enforcement agency. If we are talking about legal institutions, though, the fact of collusion can only be established in the court of law after the plaintiff reveals all of their evidence to that effect and the judge finds this evidence convincing and sufficient

Here is one case in the Philippines wherein the card dealer was colluding with his friends and has raked a total of 5 million PHP or roughly $100K. They did some investigations, and then called NBI (local FBI) and the police made the arrest on the casino floor itself

It actually proves my point

That many casinos are a law unto themselves. You wouldn't really be surprised to find out that a casino is oiling local police's palm, would you? I wouldn't, either. Anyway, you intuitively expect such things from these extremely shady operations. Legally speaking, it is the police who should do the investigations, and then a judge should order an arrest warrant. Indeed, there are different jurisdictions with different laws (as well as lack of any, while we are at it), but then we are back to square one, i.e. walk away from brick'n'mortar casinos and spare yourself a lot of trouble

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Quote from: South Park on June 29, 2020, 12:40:30 PM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on June 16, 2020, 02:38:11 AM

Quote from: fiulpro on June 16, 2020, 02:04:06 AM

•The reason there are no clocks and windows at casinos are because they don't want to let the users leave !Plus they often give free drinks to make your judgement bad and lavender of ofc Making you drowsy .
•If you want to eat or to go to restroom or to even cash out your Chips , you have to go deeper and which actually means , go through more games , that one last game makes people loose a lot of money.
•Casinos are designed like a maze so that the user might face problems in finding the EXIT , so you will play more ~

That is some tricks from the casino that won't allow the gamblers to stop or leave the casino. They do that by secretly, so we don't feel anything and don't know if they trick us. That is why we need to have control while we are playing gambling, and we need to determine by ourselves how long we can play gambling. When you play for a long time, there will be difficult for you to stop the game before your money runs out.

Those tricks are very old but that does not mean they are not effective, another trick that I have seen casinos employ is that if you are betting large sums of money they will offer you all the drinks and food you may want, with the idea to keep you in the casino and in the case of the drinks to lower your ability to think in a rational way, that way you are more likely to lose money in whatever game you are playing, this is why when you go to a casino you should never carry with you more money than what you are willing to lose otherwise you could wake up the next day lamenting all the money you lost.

I think not just food and drinks, and they will offer other bonuses to us so that we will stay for a long time in their place. When you get drunks, it will be easy for them to keep you playing gambling without thinking that is enough for you. You can not deny what they want if you are drunk because they make you drink so many glasses or bottles. They will know that you still have money to spend on gambling games, and even if you lose your money, they will offer you to take a loan from them.

thats so desperate if what you were saying is true but i feel no . a casino offer drinks or bonus but they dont do it on a forced manner like its obvious for you to see it . they wont offer strong alcoholic drinks but those are just light wines like what we saw on formal ocassions . if players got drunk , players can do silly things and they dont like that to happen. havent heard a casino that offers loan but thats risky because they can hire someone to beat you up once you cant paid on time , just like i see on movies

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Quote from: South Park on June 29, 2020, 12:40:30 PM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on June 16, 2020, 02:38:11 AM

Quote from: fiulpro on June 16, 2020, 02:04:06 AM

•The reason there are no clocks and windows at casinos are because they don't want to let the users leave !Plus they often give free drinks to make your judgement bad and lavender of ofc Making you drowsy .
•If you want to eat or to go to restroom or to even cash out your Chips , you have to go deeper and which actually means , go through more games , that one last game makes people loose a lot of money.
•Casinos are designed like a maze so that the user might face problems in finding the EXIT , so you will play more ~

That is some tricks from the casino that won't allow the gamblers to stop or leave the casino. They do that by secretly, so we don't feel anything and don't know if they trick us. That is why we need to have control while we are playing gambling, and we need to determine by ourselves how long we can play gambling. When you play for a long time, there will be difficult for you to stop the game before your money runs out.

Those tricks are very old but that does not mean they are not effective, another trick that I have seen casinos employ is that if you are betting large sums of money they will offer you all the drinks and food you may want, with the idea to keep you in the casino and in the case of the drinks to lower your ability to think in a rational way, that way you are more likely to lose money in whatever game you are playing, this is why when you go to a casino you should never carry with you more money than what you are willing to lose otherwise you could wake up the next day lamenting all the money you lost.

I think not just food and drinks, and they will offer other bonuses to us so that we will stay for a long time in their place. When you get drunks, it will be easy for them to keep you playing gambling without thinking that is enough for you. You can not deny what they want if you are drunk because they make you drink so many glasses or bottles. They will know that you still have money to spend on gambling games, and even if you lose your money, they will offer you to take a loan from them.

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