Still why so grumpy? Since I wrote that last post you "investors" have locked in another $300,000 or so in profits!
What are you going to buy with your share?
What are you going to buy with your share?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P-gDZmFnTQ
Topic: Pirate accomplices - page 4. (Read 30323 times)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P-gDZmFnTQ
So you're saying unethical is preferable to stupid. Thanks for admitting you feel this way. I will be sure to avoid doing business with you in the future.
Oh noes you got me notme; I am shady. That is why you won't find a single person with an unresolved complaint. Feel free to take it that way and not do business with us.
Then again we don't offer pie in the sky 3400% APR so I doubt you would be interested anyways.
Still why so grumpy? Since I wrote that last post you "investors" have locked in another $300,000 or so in profits!
What are you going to buy with your share?
But when he started opening up to public BTC, did he ever say no? Even something growing by leaps and bounds would need to setup some controls such as investment rounds. Perhaps he is a wizard who can plan for a completely uncapped investment flow. So far I haven't seen anything past speculation at his business model, far from the confident proclamations of "I've figured it out and you might be able to as well if you are resourceful" from some Pirate backers a while ago.
There wasn't unbounded growth. There were people that weren't ever going to invest with Pirate. There were people that were only going to invest X with Pirate. Still others couldn't afford to buy more coins because they ran out of funds and/or the price was goin gup past their preferred purchase point. That only leaves the new coins from mining and obviously, that's limited as well too.
2) So much growth he doesn't seem to have a need to control how much inflow of investors there are? Opening up to the public with seemingly no limits or buy in rounds? I know this is an "internet" business but I thought the dotcom bubble and now facebook would have killed the idea of such growth.
There wasn't unbounded growth. There were people that weren't ever going to invest with Pirate. There were people that were only going to invest X with Pirate. Still others couldn't afford to buy more coins because they ran out of funds and/or the price was goin gup past their preferred purchase point. That only leaves the new coins from mining and obviously, that's limited as well too.
He said no by lowering interest rates, like a free market business should. Too bad the FUD masters incited the herd to stampede for the exit
. Out of curiosity imsaguy...
1) How do you pronounce your name? I keep pronouncing it like I'ms (or Iams, like the dog food) A Guy
2) At this point, given the long delay and minimal communication do you think Pirate will be able to pay out the rapidly increasing debt he owes as per the terms of his post (principle + interest to the hour)?
1) How do you pronounce your name? I keep pronouncing it like I'ms (or Iams, like the dog food) A Guy
2) At this point, given the long delay and minimal communication do you think Pirate will be able to pay out the rapidly increasing debt he owes as per the terms of his post (principle + interest to the hour)?
1) Illinois Math and Science Academy (IMSA)
2) I've said and continue to say that I am going by the terms of the Vandroy bet which has a deadline of Wednesday if I'm not mitaken. When the bet was made, it seemed no one had issues with the terms, so if both sides signed off on it, I should be ok with it as well. It is frustrating to not have any information, but outside of filing legal action, there's not a lot I can do. Most lawyers (hell, even the credit bureaus) won't touch any sort of default until at least 30 days have passed, so it seems prudent to wait and see. So to answer your question directly, the longer things go, the lower my expectations.
Much more respect for you now that I know you're not I'm "something awful" guy.
So congrats are in order I guess. All you "investors" just made another cool million (on paper)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98958txVSrE
The respect of someone that clueless, lost doesn't mean a whole lot.
I had more respect for you when I thought you believed it was a ponzi and were just looking to time it for max profit. Unethical but not stupid. This theory is just stupid. On par with ideas like "a rich person could destroy Bitcoin by buying all the coins" but nobody was ever foolish enough to invest on that idea.
In related news Mr-10%-OTC-Trader no longer only owes his creditors ~$5 mil USD.
It is now more than $6 mil USD and increasing at a rate of $0.75 per second.
500K BTC * 1.07 * 1.04 * $11.00 = ~$6.1 mil USD.
So congrats are in order I guess. All you "investors" just made another cool million (on paper)!
I had more respect for you when I thought you believed it was a ponzi and were just looking to time it for max profit. Unethical but not stupid. This theory is just stupid. On par with ideas like "a rich person could destroy Bitcoin by buying all the coins" but nobody was ever foolish enough to invest on that idea.
In related news Mr-10%-OTC-Trader no longer only owes his creditors ~$5 mil USD.
It is now more than $6 mil USD and increasing at a rate of $0.75 per second.
500K BTC * 1.07 * 1.04 * $11.00 = ~$6.1 mil USD.
So congrats are in order I guess. All you "investors" just made another cool million (on paper)!
So you're saying unethical is preferable to stupid. Thanks for admitting you feel this way. I will be sure to avoid doing business with you in the future.
I think many here are so invested in the "ponzi proposition" that they're refusing to consider other possibilities.
...
Ponzi or not, there's no legal activity that I can think of that would allow paying such returns for any length of time.
We all did exactly what you just did. We considered it, and then rejected it as completely implausible....
Ponzi or not, there's no legal activity that I can think of that would allow paying such returns for any length of time.
So what is it you know about pirate's op that causes you to reject the possibility of some other non-ponzi scheme, like money laundering or tax avoidance? (not trolling, just curious)
Purely hypothetical...but it seems to me that if one runs in certain circles, one would know plenty of people willing to pay 90, 80, or even 70 cents on the dollar to clean/hide their money. Maybe I'm missing something, but a steady stream of dirty funds wanting to be cleaned would certainly allow
But even so, it doesn't matter. If something is indistinguishable from a Ponzi, and most likely a Ponzi, you should treat it like a Ponzi. If you have a gun that looks like it's loaded, you should probably treat it like it's loaded.
Hey, I'm all about the "if it walks/talks/tastes/smells like a X, then it is a X" line of reasoning; it's a great rule of thumb that has served me well. But by definition, rules of thumb are not axiomatic.
Again, I'm not trolling or even trying to be argumentative. In fact, if someone held a gun to my head and said "Ponzi or not ponzi....decide or I'll shoot!", I would immediately choose ponzi - whether the gun was loaded or not. Thing is, the more I feel like I'm about to become convinced of something, the more I try to challenge my own assumptions (as long as no one's holding a gun to my head). Since I don't really trust myself to do this on my own, I seek outside help. No other place to do that but this forum, and I fully expect to get flamed, labelled a troll, or otherwise marginalized in the process. Especially on this forum when emotions are running so high.
In this case, my process has led me to the conclusion that it is in no way certain pirate was/is running a ponzi. I see no hard evidence that tips the balance towards ponzi vs some other shady alternative like laundering/tax avoidance/etc. Joel, if you or some other smart mofo can show me the error in my position, all the better for me.
To be sure, I see no compelling argument at all that the operation was conducted legally. If someone who claims to know what pirate was doing would care to offer an explanation to the contrary, I would gladly change my mind. Again, if there was nothing illegal going on, there's no reason why anyone who knew the nature of pirate's op couldn't share it with the community now (given that the op is shuttered).
Just so no one has any ideas about any bias on my part: I've NEVER invested or bought BTC. I currently have a few BTC in a wallet somewheres that I earned via mining a long time ago. I think bitcoin has potential, but only if/when it's used as a medium of exchange beyond the current pitiful level. When that happens, all the drama related to these "investment" scams will become largely irrelevant to the broader BTC world.
BTC is a legal grey area.
Really?!? Say it aint so! But as Vladimir pointed out, using BTC as a vehicle to facilitate a criminal enterprise doesn't change the legality of the overall operation one little bit.
Duck fallacy!
Har! I mean aarrgh!
hooo, oohhh ohhh ohh, ho hohooo ohhhh maannnn, those weren't pills your attorney just gave you, Goat...
He's on a boat u know ..... and on 12 different airplanes..... (he even has a commercial for this here on bitcointalk) 
*that was not meant to harm Goat in any way*
*that was not meant to harm Goat in any way*
You are telling me you have no evidence it is a ponzi... If you have it, and posted it somewhere please just copy and paste it here or link it.
You guys are asking me to prove it is not a ponzi but I think it is about time you guys prove it is...
You guys are asking me to prove it is not a ponzi but I think it is about time you guys prove it is...
Maybe this will teach people not to lend or borrow money anymore. It does not matter if it was a ponzi or not, there is a lot of risk in lending and borrowing.
That's exactly what brings an economy to a screeching halt.
That is what THEY want you to think an economy needs. There is no problem investing money into projects rather than loaning money out. Also, borrowing money to build businesses or to finance a lifestyle is adding more risk than is necessary. Most businesses fail because they borrow too much money, don't have a decent income stream, and then can't make the interest payments. Start small, build your income up and that company would be in a better financial situation than a competitor that is swimming in debt.
People, governments, and societies can't borrow their way to prosperity.
He's ruined on this forum/community if he doesn't.
Not only in this community but also IRL, AFAIK people know his identity and more or less where he lives.
If someone was selling pitchforks for BTC, they could make a killing (snicker) right now .
I think many here are so invested in the "ponzi proposition" that they're refusing to consider other possibilities.
...
Ponzi or not, there's no legal activity that I can think of that would allow paying such returns for any length of time.
We all did exactly what you just did. We considered it, and then rejected it as completely implausible....
Ponzi or not, there's no legal activity that I can think of that would allow paying such returns for any length of time.
But even so, it doesn't matter. If something is indistinguishable from a Ponzi, and most likely a Ponzi, you should treat it like a Ponzi. If you have a gun that looks like it's loaded, you should probably treat it like it's loaded.
Duck fallacy!
He's ruined on this forum/community if he doesn't.
Not only in this community but also IRL, AFAIK people know his identity and more or less where he lives.
I wonder what has gone wrong or was he really that stupid to run a ponzi scheme? I will retract my words if it proves to be otherwise but so far it seems there is little doubt that it's a pyramid.
It is ironic how Bitcoin is being destroyed by idiocy of its users. I wonder what Satoshi thinks when he reads threads about guys falling for Pirate's scam.
On a side note - when is Pirate supposed to pay out? I must sell my btcs until then.
On a side note - when is Pirate supposed to pay out? I must sell my btcs until then.
Why is bitcoin being destroyed by that scam (or fail; since nobody knows what's really is?)?
If anything history has taught us that these big scam's always eventually make us stronger.
Look at the Mtgox Hack of last summer... people were saying Bitcoin was dead and gone when the price crashed to $2 but it made a very strong come back and the network is more secure than ever.
When Pirate closed down shop the Bitcoin value was almost cut in half (from $15-$7.50) however in only what a week's time has recovered very nicely in a much shorter amount of time than the last big disaster.
Why is bitcoin being destroyed by that scam (or fail; since nobody knows what's really is?)?
It is ironic how Bitcoin is being destroyed by idiocy of its users. I wonder what Satoshi thinks when he reads threads about guys falling for Pirate's scam.
On a side note - when is Pirate supposed to pay out? I must sell my btcs until then.
On a side note - when is Pirate supposed to pay out? I must sell my btcs until then.
He was trying to earlier today in IRC. I only glanced in once in awhile, but apparently he was having issues with downloading the blockchain, then sent to a different computer who's wallet didn't have the blockchain in order to sign a message, and has to download it there as well.
He hasn't even proven he controls enough coins to pay out, despite being asked to multiple times.
He's ruined on this forum/community if he doesn't.
He's pretty much staked his whole reputation on it so even if he doesn't pay, everyone still gets their pound of flesh.
One more point: did Matthew actually put any money on the table?
No. He has stated he will payout if he loses but hasn't escrowed any of the 10K BTC he wagered.
He hasn't even proven he controls enough coins to pay out, despite being asked to multiple times.
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