Topic: [POLL] Trump Impeachment Poll: Who's Fault Is It? - page 3. (Read 2167 times)

I'm simply pointing out the massive amount of hypocrisy that goes on in US politics from both sides.  

I think that most peoples views on this whole impeachment thing is mainly driven by a drive for whatever side they agree more with policy wise to win.  That's fucked up.  Your views on immigration or healthcare or taxes shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not it's ok to blatantly lie to the country.  Yet whenever a politician lies, only the opposition calls them out.  And I'm not just talking about Trump.  This is just a general example.

It's become perfectly normal to respond to someone you disagree with by insulting them and trying to make them look or feel stupid which just creates a vicious cycle of non-productive 'debate'. (if you can even call it that).  Without productive debate, we aren't really a democracy.  The best ideas won't be considered.  We'll just use the ideas of  whoever is best at making the other politicians look the most stupid.

I feel dirty clicking on ZeroHedge links. You do realize there are other "news" sources out there, right? Its quite easy for me to find the Fox News version of a story and post it here just to make conservatives more open to reading it. Can't you find a "lefty" publication like CNN, CBS, NBC or MSM that makes your same point? Oh, you can't? Wonder why that is.

We have already established you don't care about due process, the rule of law, or precedent. You can call being able to present a defense "muddying the waters" all you want, that doesn't wave a magic wand over totalitarianism and make it right. Rather convenient you can just unilaterally declare a defense not necessary, because after all nothing should get in the way of this extrajudicial railroading right? Your proclamation that if the roles were reverse they would act the same is nothing but you justifying democrat totalitarianism with assumptions based on absolutely nothing. The House has oversight authority, not just one half of The House. Nothing about this process is within the law. So again, those non-subpoena subpoenas? Still pretty quiet... No matter, just keep shifting to new accusations as you fail to justify the last, people have short memories and you can perpetually justify this insanity by simply sliding the topic.

I'm totally fine with not allowing the GOP to have the power to subpoena whoever they want.  It would be foolish to give them the power.  They'd use it to delay, muddy the waters, and whatever other political moves they come up with.  And I wouldn't fault them for doing that.  There's also no chance in hell they'd give the democrats the same power if the roles were reversed. 

Remember, this is not the trial.  We're just deciding whether or not there should be a trial.  We don't do special prosecutors anymore.  The house will lay out the prosecution and then send it to the senate where a few of them will serve as the actual prosecutors, and the president will have every chance to defend himself.

Opinions are great. Where are the facts?

The hive mind is alive and well and they all voted for the first option. That's what constitutes a "hive" - the overwhelming majority of a population. I just didn't want the P&S conservatard/conspiratard majority to feel left out, so I gave them an option.

Before you post your go-to meme, I'm countering it with my No U To Infinity card.

The reason it took almost 10 months for them to have these impeachment hearings is because not enough democrats supported it.

I'm one of those people that think Trump has at least 'deserved' to be impeached since not too far into his presidency.  Like most people who agreed with me at the time, I believed my reasons were valid.  Just because you believe they are not valid, does not mean I don't care whether or not they are valid.  It just means have a different opinion on what valid is.

Kavanaugh was already vetted. Second of all I am amazed you think bringing that up is supporting your argument when the whole thing ended up having ZERO substantiation behind it whatsoever. You keep pretending like the democrats subverting the law and due process is just how its done and is a virtue. All they are doing is splitting the nation in half with their lawless efforts to subvert the vote of the people to try to take back power at any cost.

When Clinton was impeached he was allowed to defend himself including being able to call his own witnesses, make his own subpoenas, and introduce their own evidence. This isn't due process, this is a fraud, and the fact that you try to justify it shows me you would rather this country be ruled by lawless totalitarianism than by rule of law. Who ever heard of the accused being able to introduce evidence to defend themselves right? What is justice is the accusers totally defining everything and anything introduced. Now THAT is due process! Who gives a fuck if it leads to civil war right? What counts is Trump is removed. Fuck the will of the people, you need to win at all costs.

You are here now, and still quite silent on the non-subpoena subpoena issue. Not like facts matter, just shift the topic to the next accusation and pretend like this total disregard for the rule of law, due process, and precedent is just always how it has been done. All you have to do is believe and magically it becomes true!

It does look that way. The thing is, these guys have publicly advocated impeaching Trump since the very first day he was in office, and they really didn't care if there were or were not valid reasons for doing so. And they've been upfront about it, not hiding it at all.

No need to play these games man.
He did it because he wanted a shot at filling the vacancy with a Conservative.  And it worked.  Which is fine.  It's politics.

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I mean, refusing to even hold a hearing for the guy the president nominated for the Supreme Court isn't just "something" either.  Some would argue it would have a greater affect on the Country than any president.

One party does everything they can to make something happen, and the other does everything they can to stop them.  Both sides are going to do whatever they can to make the other side look as bad as possible.
If Clinton won and the GOP were trying to impeach her using the same plays that Pelosi is using, would you really be like "wait a minute, that's not fair!  The Dems should be able to subpoena whoever they want, even if they don't have control of the House!"  Of course not.

It would be foolish to allow the Republicans to subpoena whoever they want.  They'd use it to keep the Dems from controlling the pace of the hearings, which is a huge advantage for them.  

You aren't really surprised the Democrats are keeping them on such a short leash, are you?

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Had a big project to finish past couple weeks, that's why I haven't been active.

This isn't just "something", this is an attempt to unseat a sitting duly elected president. I believe you understand the gravity of this and are simply being disingenuous at this point. Speaking of being disingenuous... you seem oddly silent on the issue of the non-subpoena subpoena issue you insisted was legitimate so vociferously earlier. Funny how quickly such things become a non-topic for people trying so hard to topic slide when they run out of arguments.

On the contrary, after Scalia passed away and left a vacancy on the SC, the ever-diplomatic, gracious Republicans cited the "Biden Rule" in deferring the discussion about the SC vacancy:

The Senate's Republican leadership was quick to assert that the vacancy should not be filled until after the 2016 presidential election.[13] They cited a 1992 speech by then-senator Joe Biden, in which Biden argued that President Bush should wait until after the election to appoint a replacement if a Supreme Court seat became vacant during the summer or should appoint a moderate acceptable to the then-Democratic Senate, as a precedent. Republicans later began to refer to this originally little-noticed idea as the "Biden rule".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland_Supreme_Court_nomination#Biden_rule_debate

You know how the Democrats bitch and whine when the Rupublicans do something with a Majority without giving a shit about what the Democrats think?  (Merrick Garland for example.)

That's what you guys sound like right now.

Don't worry, you'll get to hear them bitching again as soon as the impeachment ball is in the Senates court.

It matters not how much they undermine the rule of law and due process, control must be taken at all costs.

Well now that's a crock of shit.

Your side can call witnesses in its defense, but they must be approved by your adversary.

Stalinist methods.

https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20191028/BILLS-116-HRes660.pdf

The comment streams are all that matter.

I voted for the Lizard People. In the poll, I mean, not in real life. Although in real life, yes, in a straight choice between Trump and the Lizard People I would be campaigning hard for our reptilian friends.

Politics in the Western world is becoming increasingly absurd. It is far beyond parody now. In the UK, it's just as bad. We're governed by a man with the brain and appearance of a dishevelled sock-puppet.

Zerohedge is not on my scheduled rounds, but I'm not remembering very many times when I've seen fabricated or 'fake news' on the site.  Most things I remember seeing have some basis in reality.  Most importantly to me, much of the stuff I've seen is perfectly valid and interesting information which no 'mainstream' outlet will touch with a 10 foot pole.  It's a good place to get leads of general interest to follow up on.

As for basic credibility, I would rate Zerohedge so far above CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc that the latter are not even in sight.  Also the comments are fun and interesting and seem to have a higher 'real-people/bot' percentage than the mainstream rags (which nowadays don't even allow user participation most of the time anyway.)

Some years ago I used to routinely skim stories then head directly for the comments where all the bullshit propaganda from the written piece was dissected.  Not long after than the owners of most of these platforms started highly editing and simply deprecating comments.

Zerohedge does now and then have an interesting scoop.