Topic: POLL - which coins are scams as defined in the OP? - page 7. (Read 11787 times)

The bigger gun is not realistic, because the DEEP STATE can access $trillions charged to the collective.

Collectively going quietly into the night will be the next Dark Age.

Growing too many necks to cut off seems the most realistic, because TPTB (the-powers-that-be) bide their time patiently in this case because they always assume they can subsume any phenomenon due to that fact that economics of profit and capital centralizes into a power-law distribution and the power vacuum of the Iron Law of Political Economics.

Do something to benefit the masses in order to force TPTB to switch from full frontal attack to insidious co-option mode. Or remain insignificant enough to be ignored.

...that will be used in next altcoinUK's scam

And the IOTA shit has not even hit the fan. Imagine what will happen when the idiots (i.e. "investors") realize there is no revenue from JINN nor IoT and they have been scammed.

On that note, spread the info that the victims of the JINN/IOTA fraud can send me their personal info and then I will forward it to relevant law enforcements which will be either Norway, UK, Russia or US, depending on the location of the victims. That's how we jailed Ryan Kennedy the Moolah scammer, that's how the Banxshare and Bitbay scams are progressing and being in prosecuting and arrest warrant phase respectively, and that's how these two IOTA wankers will be the girlfriends of the horny prison population. We need to clean up from these scammers the digital currency sector.

I won't take the bait to derail this thread into a political discussion, let's go back to discussing my personality.

When a Lukashenko servant Belarusian like yourself start lecturing US citizens about politics, government, freedom and democracy, then we are starting to get the full picture how arrogant and delusional you are.

You have been living in the totalitarian shit hole of Belarus, put up with the totalitarian regime which kills journalists and human right activists, most likely you are a low life collaborator of the regime, in the meantime you are lecturing US citizens what democracy is. Really? No wonder an arrogant delusional like yourself can't see the consequences of your own actions and rolling out frauds such as JINN and IOTA. No wonder you have teamed up with the other delusional, David boy, who also don't see the consequences of his actions and that his scam is breach of US, Russian and EU security and criminal laws. Because you are arrogant and delusional, you don't understand your beloved motherland, the shithole of Belarus won't shelter you from Russian prosecutors. Hint: check with your government contacts how many criminals were shipped from your Belarus mother land to Russia last year. You fucked this up Sergey.

Everything that was produced from slavery was burned to the ground by the Union, so it was a zero-sum game.

Not bad actually. What %% of the wealth created by those slaves is it?

Hey... at least we gave our slaves 40 acres, a mule, and the right to vote.

Aye, seems so.

I think the reason all you Eastern Europeans were enslaved by the communists and now Putin is karma for what you all did to the serfs.

Everyone is half-fearful and half-hopeful that U.S. global hegemony is nearing its end, but it would be folly to bet the farm on a deadline for that end.  You just have to live with it.  Even if it ended tomorrow, the vacuum would just be filled with an even more eggregious hegemon, which, regardless of its current underdog rhetoric, would quickly apply any extraterritorial extrajudicial extreme prejudice which suited its interest.  

For that reason, I heartily report that jurisdiction-shopping in meat-space is a folly.  To escape the rule-by-wet-jobs you need an antifragile governance structure, hardened behind impenetrable walls of math.  As long as you appear un-threatening, or controllable by means of the overtly structured norms, you can get away with just about anything, if clever, but once you become a threat, you face a trilemma:  Get a bigger gun; grow too many necks to cut off; or, go quietly into the dark night.

That's the grown-up world, children.  You don't have to like it, but neither do you (yet) have the option to leave it.

Since it was mentioned:

Zcash is going to have profound scalability problems.  It is a premine scam owned by a corporation, attempting to sell tokens to a very sophisticated market sector, which will not brook such nonsense.  The cryptography is the principal thing going for it, and even that has big "moon math" question marks around it (as well as a built-in scalability time-bomb).  Zcash will fail on governance, fail on compliance, fail on marketing, fail on plumbing, and fail to deliver.  

The net positive I can see is that because it is centralized, it can swap-in quantum crypto as needed. (Also because it is centralized, I am sure a certain TLA will have a ready-made solution prepared, delivered and installed in good time.) Believe me, I am watching eagerly for breakthrough anonymity in a viable digital cash, because I want desperately to buy it, and to use it.  Zcash ain't it.  I will not bet with human lives on the security and governance of Zcash.

I am still stuck with XMR, which is flawed in every way - yet fatally flawed in no way, which makes it just about perfect.  As it matures, the stochastic guarantees it offers continue to improve, rather than degrade.  There, as in Bitcoin, my main concern is the chance of corruption and/or co-option of the core team. (However I have much more confidence in collective competence than I do for Bitcoin.  At least they do not appear to be doubling down on dysfunction.)

Haha, reminded another gem:

LET'S MAKE USA GREAT BRITAIN AGAIN

PS: Interesting if common USA citizens a happy with disservice provided by their govt. Most of bitcoin-related sites explicitly state that US residents are not allowed to use their service. Maybe it's just karma for what USA did to the slaves? Now US residents are treated as second-class citizens...

Thanks for showing me the ropes TPTB.  You have proved that many of today’s crypto companies cannot perform what they claim.  My initial portfolio selection sucked, forcing me to step back and re-assess what is even “possible” in crypto today.  

Early adopters can crash the share price at will.  You can’t escape the “the early bird gets the worm” principle, since it is time dependent, so I must disregard “equity distribution” concerns. Known equity distribution is history.  The choice to invest in the future is mine alone, but I will not choose proven liars (who do not indemnify) like Evan.

Who cares about a central entity taking control of a blockchain? Not me.  POW coins are all susceptible to this and so far none of the big cap coin miners have taken advantage of their power because they would destroy the value of the coins that they mine if they did.  

I can sleep even easier with POS since anyone can buy 51% of the company and make me rich before they destroy the value of the company which is an added benefit of POS attacks.

Me and the average Joe care more about "governance and services" than "decentralization and distribution".  Here's our revised portfolio
 
1.   Hashocracy (BTC) – bitcoin miners will not collude to crash the value of the coins they mine, but if they do seppuku, then I own:

2.   Meritocracy (BTS)– where I can vote those miners out, and vote in the miners who perform valuable work for the company.  "Valuable work"  such as file Bill Gate’s paperwork:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=21842.0

Do you really think that this miner is going to destroy the value of the coins that he just worked so hard to raise the value of? I don't know, why don't you ask him yourself.

3.   Hybrid Hashocrcy/Meritocracy – Decred – If you remember correctly, it was you, not me who first suggested this coin after informing me about Evan’s past theft with DASH.  And of course, you are correct in assuming that the founders are a group of like-minded individuals who will control the vote initially.  Actually, the initial distribution of every coin is a group of people with something in common.  This is just a function of tribalism.  I am free to purchase 51% of all Decred, and control this company.  But don’t you think that they would just leave to form another community with the money that I just gave them?  That’s why worrying about initial distribution is a waste of time.  If you don’t agree with the prevailing views, then why are you going to move into that community in the first place?

The development directions of both DASH and Decred are heavily dependent on the desires of the founders, but if I don’t like it, then I can always create my own coin, or simply decide to not join.  So what you have to ask yourself before joining any POS crypto community is simply:

“Do I agree with the prevailing ideology of the majority?”

I noticed that NXT has both public mining and shareholder voting on development decisions which seem to place it squarely into this category.  So it looks like I have 2 choices:  Decred or NXT.  It’s a toss up.  

File Storage sector – OK, so Maidsafe is not safe, but what about Alexandria/Florincoin who use IFPS? I’m not actually sold on this sector simply because security is paramount, and if it is hackable (as you have proven it to be) then it defeats the purpose.  I will be waiting to try some polished products before buying into this sector.  Furthermore, it would seem logical that “storage” is just a commodity that can be easily replicated and due to the “Tragedy of the Commons” as you say, will cause cheap and effective imitators to crop up because it would appear that when the only metric for success is price (price per megabyte), then it won’t matter which network you are on (name brand or “Brand X” who cares).  I don’t see how one storage company can differentiate itself over another by anything but price (how do you win the "network effect" here?), so I’m not buying into this sector for now.

Record storage sector – Factom – I read your “F-Factom” rant, plus accounting for the realization of commoditized storage problems of scale (low margin business), I have decided to currently refrain from investing in this sector for now, unless you know of any potential effective solutions.

Social Networking – Synereo – Yes, it does seem kind of “Pie in the Sky”, and again, after reading your rants, and trying to understand a single word of their hangouts, I can’t tell what is going on here besides the fact that they are still in the creative planning stages, and nowhere near as finished as Peertracks, which seems to be trying to encompass the social networking (attention economy) aspect, which is why I have lumped these 2 categories together.  

https://youtu.be/aQM4P7uFgk4

https://youtu.be/yWOUJehIfJc

Can I ask you, TPTB, how far along are you on your social networking project?  Because this is obviously a tremendously lucrative space that will be sprouting competitors continuousy for years.  What other competitors are there in this space besides Synereo, Peertracks, and Alexandria?

This brings me to the “World Computer” category, and according to Roach’s post, if Ethereum pulls this off, then Vitalik is 10x smarter than Satoshi.  Therefore, I will have to wait until Augur releases before I buy Ethereum, because, this platform certainly does not look scalable.  I will wait to see if they can create a valid POS network and a valid partitioned network first.  
Is this crypto business sector of “World Computer” invalid?  Or is this what IOTA is supposed to do?  I’m completely lost on this sector, and this new IOTA coin everyone is talking about.  This sector is going to take me some more research.

Wow, my portfolio is shrinking by the minute.  Let’s see, what sectors are left. Oh, yeah, anonymity solutions.  It looks like I will have to wait for Zcash, eh?  When is this coming out?  The top 3 coins with anonymity (DASH, BitShares, and Monero) are all in the same league, but Zcash (or Zerocoin /ZSnarks?) is in a whole other universe?  I’ll take your word for it, because those threads are brain busters!  

Well, now my portfolio only consists of a handful of coins: Bitcoin, BitShares, Peertracks, and Namecoin giving me a scam-average of 13% which is twice as good as the 24% average!  I'd say that is a pretty awesome score. What's yours?  You will need to recalculate the average each time since it keeps changing.

I still need to research the “World Computer”, “Social Networking” sectors and wait for Zcash.

One final question I have for the peanut gallery:

Is there nothing else out there that is effectively delivering what they claim to do (business solutions)?

BTW, what’s with the ABJ dis?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQGlcLFhwE0#t=16s

This remided me of a world map made for the USA. It places the USA into the center and splits Asia in halves - one on the left and one on the right. It's pretty funny how much effort this ex-UK colony puts into becoming the center of the world.

smooth looked:

Thanks for explaining why the SEC is likely going to be putting many insiders in jail for selling unregistered illegal investment securities to n00bs over the coming years. The G20 will cooperate on this. TPTB are letting these insiders incriminate themselves now. And some such as CfB think they are immune because they reside in some backwater Eastern European country, but I think they have not properly calculated the risk.

Now you know one of my other purposes for creating this thread and poll. It is to collect evidence for the authorities to use in the future.

Sell Pink Sheet shit to n00b USA investors without complying with the SEC laws is going to end up very bad for these scammers.


Nonsense about free/open markets. The market caps reflect insider manipulation, not any information. The is why the government has to regulate securities, because n00bs can't control themselves.

As you know, a market cap greatly overstates the amount of capital actually invested. Additionally these ICO/premine/ninjamine scams enable the insiders to control the float and buy from themselves pumping up the price, volume, and market cap and thus also causing jealous n00bs to follow and lose their money on the P&D.

Look at the chart history of all altcoins. They are all P&Ds. Not a single exception, except perhaps Monero's breakout from a downwedge that had existed since launch with the initial pump done by arguably by rpietila's pronouncements.

---

Sometimes he writes something astute.

The long-term investors appear to be HODLing Monero and Bitcoin (and perhaps Litecoin?).

I'd like a formal proof that FAA is soluble. When you have one, alert me so I can show you why you failed.

The reason you can't solve it is because it is impossible to know that a particular algorithm is full optimized. That is a fundamental mathematical restriction in the analysis of computation complexity. That is why the only way we can define computation complexity classes is by nebulous rules. Even Bitcoin's SHA256 is not proven to be fully optimized, but at least we only have one well studied hash function that controls the proof-of-work security. Whereas, you want to introduce unbounded number of new algorithms, and there is no means of forcing any particular level of peer review on them in a decentralized environment.

Really what you pumpers and scammers want is to be able to write some technobabble that n00bs can't comprehend and present insoluble problems as solved, so that you can sell tokens and make a profit on hype.

If you were a real career oriented software developer, you would work on things that have real world practical adoption baked in, and not be some 20 year old college dropout like Vitalik who has never accomplished any adoption in his life and waste $18 million on technobabble nonsense.


Satoshi did not solve the Byzantine Generals problem, and Bitcoin is failing because Satoshi's design is forced to centralize economally:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-all-centralized-coins-fail-1388887
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14144978
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13823607

The poll, imho, is nothing more than a pageant of a selct few. If BTC is up thereas a scam then all of them are scams. Listed or not.

Look, features aside, all of this is nothing more than a new and growing market, to either exploit or be exploited by in the name of profit. Whether through skill, luck, or the lack of both the only determination of ROI is timing, perception and patience.

Greed is neither good or bad. It's simply a motivating factor to be used by those who are astute enough to know when to rein in their own greed. Or to profit off of the greed of others.

As to the choices presented in the poll, to a noob, it would appear that all of them might be more risk than the effort of DYOD is worth.

Let us not kid ourselves, the vast majority of those who hold, develop, discuss ANYTHING in this cryptosphere do so because they believe there will be a decent ROI in it for their time, money and effort. So too will the vast majority of those who become involved in the foreseeable future.

This poll is far and away too exclusive. Again, in my honest opinion, a poll on all crypto currencies/platforms already exists. It's called the free/open markets.

Pumpers will dump. And whales will feed mightily and often. However even whales get slaughtered when they miss their mark and end up beached on the shores of this new ocean of greed.

Utility and the ability for anyone to easily access those utilities offered/required is paramount to the ultimate success of any crypto endeavor. Build that and deliver...the world will beat a path to your portal.


In the spirit of disclosure, I was able to learn to attain BTC only because I live in a town with a Robo ATM. I'm not open to having to disclose my banking information. Nor am I open to the local bitcoin community where I live. I learned to trade on the exchanges. Winning and losing is part of the tuition I must pay in order to learn what I have and I'm certainly not one who has the aptitude to learn the tech involved.

I'm certain there are many, many more individuals who are still sitting on the sidelines suffering various degrees of FOMO. For them, the risk to reward ratio is simply beyond their ken. They see but they just don't understand. And to say that this is their problem, to me, is the basic problem that is a real problem that DOES require a solution.

fdyl