Topic: [POT]PotCoin - Banking for the Legal Cannabis Industry ✦ ✦ ✦Grow With Us ✦ ✦ ✦ - page 129. (Read 920105 times)

By the way for any coders out there who are interested in possible pay for good work check out

https://www.reddit.com/r/potcoin/comments/3it48g/community_todo_list_d/cutq1kj

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/pot/#!extraction is the best place I have found to get detailed info on the coins they support.
Right now about 26% of coins are actively staking, so about 55million give or take. This # was as low as 21% early today/late yesterday.

Yes, you have pretty much summed up what redrhino asked me about for verification of his findings. This also explains why my 21k address is staking a larger % than my 100k. With the 48hr'ish window between the last 2 stakes it brought my extrapolated return up to 1.71% from less than 1. This pretty much confirms that I what I think is happening is indeed the case. If I am correct, we will all see our relative earnings increase as soon as the exchanges open up and more people can get their coins out and staking as well as when potlabs starts an advertising push to get potcoin into more peoples hands.

hehe, your laborday is like mine. 

Yeah, I suspect something is off as well... My calculations are assuming 100% of the coins were being staked - and while the block explorer I used shows the number of clients, it doesn't show the actual amount of coins staked.  I suspect you could estimate this by just summing the total value of the blocks for 1 day, since my understanding is your stake is part of the new block.  There would be some error in this (anything being done in the block that isn't the stake), but it would give a good ballpark. 

Roaming around some websites, it looks like the average might be in the $500 range, which would mean about 500k potcoins staked... So based on that the multiple should be 422x the default, since the vast vast vast majority of coins aren't staked.  Am I off on any of this, or is this just illustrating the problem you've been looking into?

Yes, you have it nailed down 99%. Based on some tests I have done with varying the time between stakes on one of my wallets, I am 99% certain that I am right.
I will try and explain it the best I can, you seem like you can handle the "big" words so I won't simplify anything.

Why I think the stake rate isn't correct for some of us, yet.
The amount of coins earned from a staked block is based on several factors. The total money supply, the weight of your coins against the total actively staking coins and the coin age of that block. What I think is happening is that we are staking blocks too fast for the blocks to age enough to be paid what they should for a staked block. POSv has accelerated aging for the first 14 days, it appears that
The solution? More blocks/addresses staking. To average 2160 blocks/day we need 720 active blocks of coins trying to mint a block and get some coin in return, what we have is close to 800 actively staking addresses, we also have an 8 hour maturity based on 40s block times. If we had 2160 addresses trying to mint we would all stake once per day on average. I am actively increasing the time between my stakes by locking my wallet, I also have a sheet setup to track the stakes and give me metrics for tracking. My goal is to figure out exactly where the exponential growth stops/slows down/reverses/etc. I have also been discussion with redrhino about this, he actually brought it to me asking me to pull my coins for a few hours and see if the payout would increase for me like it did for him.


Ok, ranting reply over. More beer for me. Everyone in the states or elsewhere who celebrates labor day, have a beer or shot on me

Awesome, I've got a handle on it... So right now there's 211m potcoins total, so the interest up for grabs per day (assuming we're running at 5%) is ~29k... So when I make 1pot/day, it's because the other ~93 people who are staking (according to the block explorer) make up substantially larger holdings. 

Right now that means my interest rate is closer to 1%, not 5% - but I also imagine just like with mining, there's variance that happens, so sometimes it's going to be higher, sometimes lower, but at the end of the year it will be ~5%.

I'm certainly interested to see how this plays out... One value of mining, even when they don't hold the coins is that they create transactions - even if it is just to sell.  It also was substantially more 'fun' to solomine Pot before, because you'd find blocks and it would feel like you had accomplished something, whereas now I'm obviously doing substantially less 'work', but it also doesn't feel overly satisfying.  But that's purely from a mining perspective, not a use perspective - so as people have pointed out before on the thread, now it's more about uses of the coin.

You hit the nail on the head. Yes, it sort of incentivizes people to tell others not to stake, but at the same time it incentivizes people to actively stake 24/7 and not store their funds at at an exchange. I doubt we will ever see anything more than 50%-75% of the coins actively staking, likely closer to 50%, this means that our individual effective rate will likely however around 10%. There are however 2 factors that work against your "negative incentive", first we need actively staking wallets to secure the network and keep it moving, this is achieved by onboarding others to the coin, the second is we need people buying the coin so that we have somewhere to sell our coin for those of us that can't spend it on weed or other merchandise like food .

Interesting - so if I understand this correctly, the 5-6% is of total coins, so for argument sake let's say there are 1m coins in the system, then the total interest paid in 1 year would be 50k coins, or basically 136 coins/day.

Then the actual coins that are awarded to staking is based on the active amount of stakers/wallets running - so let's say there is 100k staking (10% of total), this means that their EFFECTIVE interest rate is 10x of normal (since the majority in my example is not staking), or 50%, because if they were the only ones all year, they would receive 50k coins for their 100k stake.

Is this correct?

If so, that's interesting because it would seem to negatively incentivize you to NOT tell people to stake coins, because the less staking, the more interest you'll accrue.  On the flip side, this also means that the whole network still benefits from dead or unused coins, because they add to the total interest rate of the network.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to answer my questions - still wrapping my brain around POSV...

Damn I feel honored...

As I responded to markaz, the returns are not YET correct for most of us staking. My 100k address is staking less than 1%/apr while my 21k address is getting upwards of 16%.
redrhino and I have been attempting to figure out why and I think I know, but we won't know if I am right until we have several times the current blocks/addresses fighting to stake.
In short, I believe that coin age grows exponentially for the first 14 days and when you stake as often as we have been because of the few # of blocks of coins to keep the network moving, you cut off the compounding effect before it can give you an optimal return.

some staking info /\

it's a minimum of 5%, so daily pos finds wont be big but they will add up over time... keeps inflation to a minimum 

The 5-6% is yearly return for supporting the network. From what I can tell the returns are not what they should be, yet. This is due to the network taking time to get up to speed, mainly because we don't have cryptsy and bittrex online yet, those 2 have the most potcoin of all the exchanges that support it. We have had some lag getting the transition to POSv up and running at full speed. When the network is finally moving the way it should be you will notice that 5-6% is the inflation rate on the total money supply and your local stake rate is much higher than that. There might also be an issue with the code that needs tweaked, the devs are aware of it and looking into it.

I'd like to understand this payout system a bit better - I see the 5-6% mentioned all the time, but is that per block of staked coins, or what?   I've only got a small number of potcoins, about 30k, and in the last 24 hours, I think I've gotten barely 1 or 2 potcoins - is this to be expected?  And if not, what am I doing wrong?

The concept seems cool, but in practice I find it pretty non-obvious what the return is.

Thanks!

Are you working with Cryptsy on their issue with potcoin? Thanks -M

Edit add: What was the unexpected issue?

What is there to "understand". This is as terrible as your silence about the whole problem caused only by you appalling incompetence.

We are in the process of working with Bittrex on unlocking their wallet.

They have run into an unexpected issue which we are hopping to have resolved soon.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.
PotCoin

The Prince of Pot Himself That's awesome. Tell you if he gets on here I'm sure he would have plenty of people sending him some Potcoins to try it out

I live in Vancouver, and spoke to a very prominent marijuana activist worldwide by the name of Marc Emery. He is very well integrated into my personal social circle and life and I have mentioned this project to him. I have many other friends in the local marijuana community who are into technology and this is definitely a project that has potential in the legal world.

Polo and bleu are up and running. Aside from the slow slide starting to happen that is shaking out weak hands, I don't see this coin devaluing into oblivion.
Bitt and cryptsy will have to bring their wallets online at some point, if only to let people withdraw the coins they hold. If they don't, thats a decent chunk of coin that can't be traded and can't stake, that does 2 things, it effectively reduces the supply of the coin and it increases the stake rate for the coins that are online and staking.

I am arbing pot at every chance I get, and despite my taking the devs to task for the way things have shaken out, I am in potcoin for the long haul. Its the first weedcoin and the move to POSv gives people and legal head shops a reason to hold and support the coin. With the right promotional strategy and enough boots on the ground in legalized states we could easily see millions in weed sales flow through this coin in very short order.

Even so, I made what I would make from many years worth of staking the total amount I have with a tiny fraction of it instead.
Cryptsy will either unlock the wallets eventually, or the coin will devalue into oblivion.
I wonder what will happen first since the devs seem to be absent?

my 40 addys are hummin away

I have thought about moving some of my coins back into polo to arb, but when they get locked up at crypsty with no timeframe on them starting the wallet backup, no bueno.