Topic: Prevention is better than a cure. Please escrow. - page 17. (Read 298345 times)

As a mod here I don't want to intervene too much, and tell people how they should do business, and your proposed changes won't stop people from scamming and getting scammed .

In the past one had to make 4 posts and stay online for 4 hours (cumulatively) to be able to post outside the newbies' section, now it's 1 post & 4h. The 50 posts requirement to post in Marketplace wouldn't be much of a deterrent because there are plenty of people that post more than that daily, it would make more sense if it was based on Activity but I would still be against such measures as it would only stop the laziest and the most obvious scammers.

Ok,

I think there needs to be some new rules established for this forum. There are way too many scams going on in the marketplace and too many new users showing up with lots of pricey hardware for sale with little or no proof that they own it.

That said, I think some simple rules and regulations for posting in classifieds would be very helpful.

1. All for sale threads MUST have atleast one picture of the physical item you are selling which includes a piece of paper with user name and date in the shot. This is required on many other forums and is a no-brainer.

2. A list of payment options posted in the very first post with it clearly stated whether escrow is accepted or not and who the preferred escrow provider would be.

Finally. Its been a while since I was a newbie but if I remember correctly. There were requirements for post counts etc. before posting in the rest of the site. I think it would be nice if these were made a little stricter for the marketplace section... something like >50 posts required.

Thanks,

good advice ^


hope you are keeping well

i think people should have the details of any escrow service such as telephone number and address and next of kin telephone number.

not necessarily people who do escrow have to give out sensitive information but people should be advised only to use those who do

after all those people are holding our money.

see here (i am not affiliated and not promoting)  maidek offers escrow  see here   https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/escrow-by-maidakreg-2011-1-fee-icoipocontestscampaigns-247-service-133985  with phone number and his ebay details  which is a start.

i am only reporting this after seeing john k disappear for over a month without leaving a trace behind him and he was the biggest one.  he was always honest and was a college student but anyone who had money by him is now stuck with no contact.

see here and further posts  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4275680

just my 0.2BTC

if anyone finds anything wrong with this post pls contact and i can edit or remove it

I agreed  about using escrow thank you for share.

Escrow is very well and good but you are still putting trust in other people who may have a difference of opinion to the seller in terms of a dispute.

I firmly believe that buyers should be responsible for doing all the due diligence that they see fit before sending payment for any goods or services, common sense, above all else, should tell you if you're going to be ripped off or not.

If someone wants to sell something it is the buyers prerogative to make absolutely sure that the seller is genuine - of course it has hard to be certain that newer members are 100% legitimate - if you have doubt don't deal with them. Using an escrow service is fine, but I don't believe it is the future, especially for online retailers as they are not likely to accept BTC if escrow is required, it's simply too time consuming.

If a brand new member claims to have 1000 BTC and wants to sell, without even offering proof of wallet ownership - don't bother asking for escrow - it's simply a scam, move on. But if someone is trying to sell a small amount of BTC from a long time account and you are interested, it is for the buyer to meet the sellers terms if they choose to respond to the advert. The buyer after all did not advertise 'Selling $100 for 0.15 BTC, message if interested'.

I hate scams as much as anyone else, it's awful for people to contemplate stealing someone else's BTC or anything else for that matter. But if I want to sell something - you meet my terms. Just as if I want to buy something from you I would expect to meet your terms. I think only this way is the future for BTC. Use care and common sense and you should be OK.



 

How to find best escrow.. ??

How does one become an escrow "agent"?  I wouldn't mind help facilitating a sale or be the middle man in a sale.  I've never offered it before but I'd have to start from somewhere.  I'll do it for free.. no donations required either.. I just wanna' learn.

1) yes, Tho very busy.

2) I have used it, I have found it a good experience, The operator was helpful, If you use it, You will get e-mails every step of the way, Be careful not to click on the link to release funds! this is a one way deal, Watch your e-mail account, Some people do a deal, then hack your e-mail to release the funds!

Is John K around.  Ishe trusted still!???.



BTC CRow.      Anyone use it. Experience

When John K was busy, I got more contracts. Then he finally settled in, and the contracts dried up. So if he gets too many, escrow will become decentralized. Don't worry about it.

He deservedly has the highest fees now.

I video all my parcels, sign for them, take them in and open and inspect it, I even set it up in ONE take if necessary, This has helped me out more than once.

I'm sorta relieved i'm not on this other whitelist/blacklist thing, I am happy doing escrows on the quiet.

I would like to ask the community, EVERYONE is using johnK, Not saying this is a bad thing, He's a sound person and I have had good dealings with him, But the list of reputable escrows are still very slim, Do you think this is going to get too much for one person? Is this how we run a decentralized community?

I will never use Kluge for escrow again. Everyone got paid in the end, but he was extremely unprofessional, and dishonest.

Dabs should be there, but the trust system is still fairly new, and kind of wonky. Using defaulttrust to proclaim some objective trustworthiness rating is sketchy.

ETA: What crazyates posted below is true, and I have no defense against it.

Kluge, the evil mastermind, took it from you.

You're spot on.  The "you sent me an empty package" scam is common.  I know because I've sent out tens of thousands of packages in my business and there are customers who probably never pay for anything they order online.

What we do is carefully weigh every order before packaging it up.  That way they cannot claim the package was shipped empty or with missing items etc.  Well, they do sometimes try but at least we know for a fact it didn't happen.

In defense of some customers, it could be a little brother or other household member gets to the package first and removes stuff before the real owner knows the package has arrived.  This is actually quite common.

We really need a customer rating system too so that merchants can avoid them.

As you mention, a company selling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff every year is likely not going to try and scam you out of fifty bucks.  Doesn't make sense, just too small of an amount for them to risk losing the confidence of potential customers.

There is an escrow whitelist / blacklist compiled here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-bitcointalks-escrow-providers-ranking-blacklist-avoid-scam-276897

John K is of course in the top spot. (And yay!, I'm next.)

You cannot trust them "absolutely". But again you cannot trust anything "absolutely". You have to "relatively" trust them. For myself I follow these guidelines:

1- Never scale up escrow trusted amounts: (If the community trusted this escrow with 100-200BTC in the past, Don't go ahead with 1000+BTC deals with this escrow -_-!)

2- Never do any transactions in private (Self explanatory)

3- Have everything cryptographically signed by a known key for the escrow (Self explanatory)

I hope this helps.

well how can you know if you can trust the escrow service though :/

I am looking for small (tiny!) transactions to act as an Escrow Provider for to build trust in the community.

I posted more details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264799.new#new