Topic: Project Anastasia: Bitcoiners Against Identity Theft [re: Craig Wright scam] - page 7. (Read 4450 times)

This is what a lot of people fail to understand. At this point in time, even if Craig actually had and used the keys, that would be far from any proof that he's Satoshi. To be clear: It has gotten to the point where it is impossible for him to prove that he is Satoshi because of the very same reason that you mentioned.

Satoshi was a true visionary, firstly to create Bitcoin, bring it to reality
[with the help of others] and then at an opportune moment step out
of the activity and dissapear knowing that to do so was the correct
action to take while the project is at a secure stage with the right
people guiding it.

The visionary thinking applys to the pseudonym "Satoshi Nakamoto"
if you plan on abandoning your project and leaving it to others you
cannot use your own name, He/She/They knew as early as possibly
2007 and certainly early 2008 that Bitcoin would create major disruption.


CSW on the other hand cares little for the Bitcoin project, and doesnt
care about the potential damage he is causing to Bitcoin, and the
credability to himself and the embarrasment to his family, not to mention
the stress to the Kleiman family and others.

Satoshi would never create a rival technology to Bitcoin and have the
nerve to call it Bitcoin SV.

CSW has shown to lack the class of Satoshi.

I pretty much agree with you @aoluain and @JayJuanGee... There are somethings tho which I can't wrap my head around... Most of these people who support CSW claim he has the credentials for being Satoshi but what I fail to understand is why didn't he reveal himself right at the inception? Surely his credentials would have given the bitcoin's community a sense of stability. Why would a person who was so deeply focused on his privacy all of sudden want to give it away?... The Math doesn't add up to me at least... Imagine if someone published the general relativity theory anonymously and once it was proven correct, Einstein came forward to claim it was all him all along. It would appear it was him as he has the credentials but there would have been no way to verify his claims. But we all know Einstein stood by his theory and was proven just recently. I mean if CSW truly believed in his "Idea" why didn't he stick with it? Put your credentials on the line from the right go why hide behind an Alias... Thoughts like these will never make me believe CSW is Satoshi.


I will trust your judgement on that @nullius as I clearly lack the technical knowledge of ACISs and cryptography.

OK.  If so, I hope he has fun.  Because that’s all he could get.  He doesn’t have the resources to “pull off” the attack:  Nobody does, and I am much more sure that he will not “get lucky” than I am sure I will not be killed by a flying fire hydrant today.

Seriously, think about it:  Being killed by a flying fire hydrant has actually happened to somebody, somewhere!  Whereas even for an attacker who can spend millions of dollars on an attack, to “get lucky” cracking Satoshi’s keys is still rather less probable than a plague of flying fire hydrants suddenly killing people all over the world.  Just won’t happen.


In the topic to which you linked, OP combined a small, crudely-stated insight into batch attacks wrapped in a pile of misunderstandings about how Bitcoin works, how ASIC miner chips work, etc., plus some shoddy maths and general handwaving.  I think that thread received only small attention, because the Development & Technology forum gets so many of these crank posts by idiots who are so smug that they have found a brilliant new way to break Bitcoin’s security.  I should probably reply there sometime later.

---

Disclosure:  I myself have tried to crack Satoshi’s keys.  Indeed, it is a longtime hobby of mine—a stimulating intellectual exercise, not unlike my project to build a flying saucer out of empty beer bottles in my garage.  As Faust aspired to the infinite, I yearn for the impossible.

Of course, I am not so foolish as to ram my head into the astronomically large numbers involved.  Instead, I try to find practical attacks of the type I expect the NSA would probably attempt, if they wanted to break Bitcoin.

It is my heartfelt desire to create a Satoshi-signed message saying, “Craig Wright is not Satoshi, and neither am I!”, and then live off the proceeds of strategically flooding the BCH/BSV markets with my fork coins.  (Satoshi’s Bitcoins are sacred!  Spend!?  I think such holy relics deserve being swept into the world’s biggest UTXO at a beautiful bech32 address.)

Alas, I must report that thus far, the very best attack that I have been able to design is:  Magick.

Quote from: nullius on January 13, 2020, 07:29:56 PM

I myself cracked Satoshi’s private keys by performing esoteric rites, and then quantum-meditating until my soul developed the power of sumperimposing all possible keys in all possible universes into a single O(1) bruteforce attempt that is mathematically guaranteed to succeed.  FOR REAL.  My soul makes Shor’s Algorithm as obsolete as doing point multiplications on an abacus.

With great power comes great responsibility; and I don’t want to inadvertently FUD the Bitcoin market by revealing any proof of my mystical achievement.  So sorry, you will must needs take my word for it.

Craig Wright has no magick.  He is only a charlatan doing cheap parlour tricks to bedazzle fools.  Therefore, methinks Satoshi’s keys are quite safe from him!

---

Good talking points:

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 18, 2020, 09:46:56 AM

It has been pointed out so frequently that the attention-seeking whore behavior of CSW and his various attempts to privatize, commercialize and even seeking self profits with bitcoin is so damned inconsistent with the whole presentation of satoshi, that there is almost NO possibility that narcissist CSW is satoshi - unless he had suffered from some kind of brain injury that had suddenly changed his personality (not wanting to provide any playbook for his next fraud claim attempt).

Quote from: aoluain on January 18, 2020, 12:42:41 PM

Actually the Bitcoin whitepaper kind of paints an image of finance sucking
banks who want control of more and more of our funds, CSW is a representation
of everything which Satoshi created Bitcoin to combat.

Well, no wonder he can’t even meet the threshold of signing with Satoshi’s private keys.

The part I rendered in bold is eminently quotable.

This has entered my mind before, what CSW is attempting and how he is going
about it is so un-Satoshi like, we dont know Satoshi but we can get a sense of
what he was about purely by his gift to us.

CSW being  Satoshi just doesnt add up and the longer and harder he tries this
identity theft the greater the distance grows between the two persons.

Actually the Bitcoin whitepaper kind of paints an image of finance sucking
banks who want control of more and more of our funds, CSW is a representation
of everything which Satoshi created Bitcoin to combat.

There have already been many folks in the bitcoin community, to the extent such a thing exists, who have already suggested that if Craig were able to move some of the coins or sign some of the addresses from those likely satoshi blocks, that would ONLY become a starting point that would help his claim towards being satoshi, not serve as conclusive evidence of such claim.

Sure, if on day one, when that diptwat CSW had asserted that he was satoshi maybe more benefit of the doubt could have been given to various pieces of evidence and less proof - however, with the passage of time, CSW has employed scheme after scheme of deception and inferior (and even fraudulent) means of making his claims at being satoshi...

Remember that bullshit shenanigans that he attempted to pull right after he had supposedly privately signed some addresses with Gavin, and then CSW made a more public attempt at showing some signing that had been based on publicly accessible information that he had doctored.  When CSW was called out in detail on that obvious fraudulent doctoring of information, he asserted that he was going to go  back into hiding and never to be seen again. 

Sure, CSW disappeared from the scene for a few months, but then we soon thereafter got the joy to experience that pathological attention-seeking diptwat again, who showed that he could not even keep his promise to go away for more than a few months.  In essence, reasonable inferences could be made that CSW had been spending his time of "going away" as a means to planning and plotting his next scheme attempts rather than really making any efforts at getting out of the limelight.  The attention seeking whore loves the limelight.. so I feel a little bad about even talking or thinking about him.

It has been pointed out so frequently that the attention-seeking whore behavior of CSW and his various attempts to privatize, commercialize and even seeking self profits with bitcoin is so damned inconsistent with the whole presentation of satoshi, that there is almost NO possibility that narcissist CSW is satoshi - unless he had suffered from some kind of brain injury that had suddenly changed his personality (not wanting to provide any playbook for his next fraud claim attempt).

I wonder if he is trying to crack satoshi's keys... I mean he definitely has got the resources to pull off an operation on this scale and he is maybe trying to get lucky... If he even succeeds to crack one most people will actually become convinced that he is satoshi. He already is getting things patented so it will serve him up in the long run. A perfect scam? Thoughts?


I think the demand should be all of Satoshi's addresses, not just one. Given the scenario above we can make it harder for people to steal satoshi's identity...

The latest development in the saga is that known identity thief CSW has failed, for the nth+1 time, to sign a message or provide any proof of private keys.

He allegedly received a "bonded courier", which he previously swore in front of the court under penalty of perjury contained all the private keys to Satoshi's addresses. Instead, this week he submitted to the court only a list of addresses which are attainable by anyone thanks to the public nature of the blockchain, and his lawyers have now stated that he does not possess the private keys to Satoshi's addresses.

Don't worry, though. He is confident he will receive the keys at an unspecified "later date", but won't disclose when, by what method, in what form, or by who. All he will say is that the keys might come "split into parts", conveniently setting the groundwork for his next lie as to why he still cannot sign a message.

An excellent point.


Craig Wright is a professional liar.  He can invent a new lie every day, so as to keep you running in circles debunking his wild claims.  This simultaneously drains your time and energy, and misleads people who don’t understand the deeper issues to wonder:  If he’s so wrong, why does he have so much to say that people keep needing to argue with him?  This facially absurd question rises from a mass-manipulator’s exploit of a well-known basic fallacy in human psychology.

hv_’s attempts to divert and reframe this thread exemplified the same propaganda technique (among others).  Look at the archival snapshots I took before deleting his posts; there is a reason why I archived before deleting.  Lies must be kept on record for examination, without letting liars dominate and derail the conversation.  Observe that besides some insults (e.g., “segshit”), hv_ kept trying to lure people into an endless argument over issues that are both irrelevant to my OP, and unreasonable to even consider when Craig Wright has not produced a cryptographic authentication of his claim to the identity of a cryptographic innovator who has known public keys.


This is called a threshold question.  An affirmative answer thereto is necessary but insufficient to conclude an argument; and if the answer is either negative or nonexistent, then further questions need not be reached.

Craig Wright has not passed the threshold of proving his alleged Satoshihood.

It’s important that there be publicly available lists of his lies, debunking him point by point.  But that is important only for the few who will want to analyze the subject in depth, more for intelligence purposes (or doing what I just did for hv_) than anything else.  Those few are precisely the ones who will not be easily fooled—and, excluding ill-intended shills, the large numbers of people whom Wright actually misleads are precisely the ones who will never even bother to examine such lists!

I think that the well-intended suggestions to put massive effort and publicity into such point-by-point refutations are misguided, and may even play straight into Wright’s hands—see above about human psychology, and the mass-manipulative techniques of a master liar.

aoluain is correct:  In wider public discussion, the answer to every question about Wright is to firmly stay on-point without letting Wright divert the public discourse:

Quote from: aoluain on January 17, 2020, 05:10:07 PM

[...]
Should have asked him to sign a message from a known Satoshi wallet
[...]
Dont need CLUES, just one task, ask him to sign a message from a known Satoshi wallet
[...]
Great, ask him to sign a message from one of the Satoshi wallets
[...]
Did you ask him to sign a message from one of the Satoshi wallets?
[...]
and so on and so on until we get all the way into court and still the question is not being asked....

and the statement isnt being said, "if you cannot access the wallets . . . sorry for your troubles, come back to us when you can"

That last bit is, “Come back to us when the threshold is met, so we are not wasting our time by examining additional purported evidence.”

I came here to this thread again to post what im posting below and I read this
post to catch up on things here and this hit it for me.

What I was going to post was:

I cannot understand how he has gotten so much traction and gone so far along
this "Real Satoshi" claim, who in their right mind was the first person to believe
his claims without asking the question which we are asking now and have been
asking for quite some time, "sign a message ...and until such time as the message is signed you are treated as a fake"

The answer to every statement he ever said about Satoshi's wallets or ownership
of same should have been "sign a message from a known Satoshi wallet ...and until such time as the message is signed you are treated as a fake"

2015
https://www.wired.com/2015/12/bitcoins-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-this-unknown-australian-genius/  
Is Bitcoin's Creator this Unknown Australian Genius? Should have asked him to sign a message from a known Satoshi wallet

https://www.wired.com/2015/12/new-clues-suggest-satoshi-suspect-craig-wright-may-be-a-hoaxer/
New Clues Suggest Craig Wright, Suspected Bitcoin Creator, May Be a Hoaxer
Dont need CLUES, just one task, ask him to sign a message from a known Satoshi wallet

2016
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36168863
Australian Craig Wright claims to be Bitcoin creator, Great, ask him to sign a message from one of the Satoshi wallets

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2016/05/02/craig-wright-reveals-himself-as-satoshi-nakamoto
Craig Wright reveals himself as Satoshi Nakamoto Did you ask him to sign a message from one of the Satoshi wallets?

and so on and so on until we get all the way into court and still the question is not being asked....

and the statement isnt being said, "if you cannot access the wallets . . . sorry for your troubles, come back to us when you can"

Its amazing how blindly some people can be led down a winding path

This is growing into an excellent discussion.  Although I do have much more to say here, I’ve recently been happy to step back and watch people examine the issue from different angles.

Because of how merit is sometimes perceived, I must note, I did not agree with, or fully agree with, every post I recently merited.  Some raised meritorious, albeit (in my opinion) arguable points that I encourage others to examine.  Some good dialectics are organically picking up here; and I want to encourage intelligent, constructive discourse, as a necessary but insufficient precursor for action.

Speaking of which...


Yup. :–)


Archived and then disposed of, per what I said before:

I believe that they, deep inside, believe that Craig Wright is a fraud/liar, and have become trolls. Or they already know that he is already a fraud/liar from the very start, and have been trolling.

I have only read a few articles from sources which support CSW's claim of being satoshi and they all throw in this stupid analogy. Are they really out of any other ideas? Bitcoin is supposed to a "currency" smdh, You don't go out in the real world giving out stakes in your house in exchange for services and goods, that's not how it works! You use "Cash"... I find this analogy really dumb, but then again I shouldn't be surprised as these people actually think CSW is Satoshi... BTW the "deed" of the house is the "Key" in this analogy! That's how the state identifies you as being the owner of the "house"... How da Fuck! can these people not recognize that? We are in 2020 and people are still dumb as fuck!

I really liked the Anastasia-themed style and the message to oppose identity theft. I also agree that Craig is almost certainly a liar and that impostors profit from their actions. Craig, for one, received great popularity and is even often invited to Blockchain forums and similar events, unfortunately. To oppose identity theft, however, there must be some criteria that let us decide whether it qualifies as identity theft or not (how sure we must be to call it out), and what exactly can we do to oppose it.
I also see the following problem. I have a friend who is sincerely absolutely sure that Craig is the real Satoshi and it's a matter of time till everyone realizes it. What can we do about such people that would defend a potential impostor?

I'm aware of the story and events surrounding Anastasia, and that's some pretty screwed-up history over a name right there. This just proves that identity is so valuable to each and every one of us that it may cost us our lives for the comfort of others'.

Now as for CSW continuously claiming the brains behind bitcoin yet cannot do a simple signing of addresses and/or any other keys the real Satoshi laid out in the open is enough evidence that this man is a nutjob. He's constantly delaying the process of him laying out the necessary evidences that will seal the deal; he's making the entire crypto community dumb as he thinks we are by evading a long withstanding 'request' from his multitude of peers and supporters all over the world. As of this moment, he's so deep into his lies that a single wrong step in the path that he's taking and he's dead. Frankly, we know why he's doing all these things: for monetary gain and evading law enforcement, but it's only a matter of time before the nutjob faces his grim (and well-deserved) fate.


All of which CSW failed to acknowledge, prove or comment with veracity and integrity. Some of his statements do not complement one or the other even, so I don't think Mr. CSWrong does provide us any sort of proof to his claims as Satoshi.

If he is, he'd definitely save us the hassle of guessing who he really is and cross-referencing every vague statement he had released over the years.


Partly true, and CSW used that to his (dis)advantage perfectly.

You tell me.  How long is it going to take you to figure out that he's not what he's pretending to be?  How many times does he have to lie to your face before you finally figure out he's using you?  Every time you defend him, you are enabling a charlatan to defraud more people.  Does that not bother you?

At this stage, I honestly don't care if you share some ideological views with Faketoshi.  Keep pushing for larger blocks if you genuinely think that's what is best.  But stop supporting this absolute parasite attempting to coopt satoshi's identity.  You are currently complicit in his crime.

I hope years. He is Bitcoin's villain/troll that every Bitcoiner loves to hate, and everyone needs. He would be a good introduction on learning, the hard way, https://twitter.com/andrespollan/status/1185455536084541441

He do not deserve anything. A thread is enough to do it to prove that he is fake and at the same time express your anger towards him with facts. Maybe a group of articles and proofs in a single thread against faketoshi's claim.

I personally think that this thread is enough for the community to reveal that what he is doing is an identity theft. Because newbies tend to not know about this kind of technical things, like the wallet signs and all those things that is hidden about Satoshi that only theymos knows. faketoshi can't prove a single thing. Veterans however have seen faketoshi's schemes long ago.

That's why we as a community should spread this thread on every discussion about faketoshi (aka craig wright) to help newbies be aware as they are the target of this scammer.

Once he get's his next payoff (with the forkening of that shitcoin and the ability to take control over unmoved coins, such as those that satoshi would have had), if he does not get put into custody, he may disappear, at the point of cashing some of those out.  Liquid enough?  enough believers to keep up the price while he is cashing out? 

He might need some kind of facial (non)recognition surgery, too.  Maybe a trip to India, even if that one has already been done? He is not exactly a stickler for originality, so he can build upon previous used techniques, take them to a new level of absurd and claim them as his own.

Yep, there's no way back for him now.  People either already recognise him for the fraud that he is, or will soon recognise him for the fraud that he is.  It's only a matter of time before he's totally discredited, but he has literally no other choice, short of disappearing from the public eye and going into hiding, perhaps, than to keep pushing forward with increasingly implausible lies.