Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 111. (Read 96804 times)

Tape out was February 23. The fabrication process takes just under 2 months from what I've seen/read.

Here's a handy calculator that someone posted to ecointalk.  Retroactive BTC calculator

http://retrocalc.net/

so far, according to that, this delay has cost 8.5169 BTC on an X-3

even at today's relatively low price of BTC, that's a serious shot in the ass.

What was the date of tape out again?  Does anyone have an estimate of when the chips should be done at fab based on the tape out date?  It should be in the next week correct?

"We trust that Bitcoin mining will be profitable in May as well or all the Bitcoin mining will stop. The online profitability calculators are wrong just because nobody in the right mind will keep doubling the hashrate of the network every month if they are loosing money. The hashrate of the network will keep growing only if the bitcoin value goes up again. For this reason and because we provide the lowest prices possible we do not think that our miners will have a negative return of investment. However, we understand that you might not agree with us and we'll offer you the refund if you decide to go ahead with it."





Difficulty jumped by about a billion Saturday.

when was this and do you have a link.  I could not fiind it.

   
Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $1.99/GH/s, miners from $2.97/GH/s
April 03, 2014, 12:54:06 PM
Reply with quote  #3270
   
Completed the all X1 and X3 hashboards designs sent to factory, waiting for final prototypes to be manufactured
Everything on the control board is working proplery, we're writing the software
Approved the X3 PSU, mass production has started.
The mold for mass production of the heatsink has been completed and we have received the first batch of heatsinks. See gallery.
We have started sending the advance payments for components.
Received X3 case prototype
We are evaluating more than 20 fan types  otto determine which provides better airflow with lower noise; Now that we have all parts in place for X3 we have purchased a smoke machine and conducting tests on the fans.
More work has been conducted on our website payment system.
Pool design is continuing according to the plan.
Click here for pictures

I'll be happy to take R&D and production engineering. 

as an added bonus, I'll spit out CAD renderings that will amaze and delight us all!  AutoCAD, Solidworks, whateva, whateva

I for one am inspired to call up BA and offer any accounting services...pro bono of course...that they may need in order to get this done faster.

Simply amazing!

I think they're lying, but not to themselves.  The truth, if they're going to be delayed further, increases the run on refunds, without a doubt, so they're simply not answering the question, which has been asked repeatedly at this point.

Last time around they claimed they didn't lie, because they didn't have the information, which was pure BS IMO, although it's irrelevant at this point.  We all know it was crap, whether they decided not to release the information and hang their PR people out to dry so they could continue spewing misinformation or not.  They knew long before they released the information.  

This time they're simply not answering  the question, which goes right along with how this has played out for months, so I expect that they would claim they haven't lied either, although it's a clear lie of omission if they know they're not going to hit that May 1 date.  The tap dancing and prevarications have become as predictable as they are pathetic.

If they're still on track for May 1 then it's easy enough to state.  The know whether or not they are, just as they did leading up to the last delay.  The fact that they haven't made any statement on this issue of delivery date, which is the most important one of all, and continue to ignore this simple yes or no question, coupled with their past behavior on this type of thing, tells me all I need to know.

This is the question.  The delivery date is supposedly May 1.  You can still order a batch 2 unit with availability showing as April 30.

How this May 1 date for completion of batches 1 and 2 can be possible when they haven't even gotten the prototypes for the hashboards I have no idea. 

In <30 days they need to receive prototypes, assess them, troubleshoot, order and receive hundreds/thousands of components as necessary to fulfill batches 1 and 2, train assembly personnel, get the assembly line running, assemble the units, and ship them. 

I'm going with no fucking way, although if BA thinks they're still on schedule for May 1 delivery it would be nice to hear, along with how all of that, and more, is going to happen in 27 days.  If they were ordering the hashboards TODAY, which they're not, I doubt this all happens in 27 days.  Just knowing the lead time on the mass production run of the boards, which they do know, would answer this question, and I have a feeling the answer is not a good one.

This is looking to me like 60 days, or June 1, would require running the table from here on out with actual shipping commencing somewhere between 60 and 90, with another month, likely 2, for production to catch up, and that's with no major screwups in designs, supply chain, or other logistics going forward. 

If you're in batch 2, or towards the tail end of batch 1, do the ROI math on that.

If it's not going happen, it would be nice to know what a realistic date is at this point so people can assess the situation with real information, which would be nice for a change.  Seeing the order queue and knowing where one is in it as it exists today would also be useful.  Neither of these things is likely to happen, however, if past behavior is any indicator.....

Bitcoin's price will go back up eventually - hopefully - and then ROI won't be too much of a problem... hopefully.

Ok thanks for passing that on, I will be watching my email/mail

Just for reference, will update when this is resolved...

I requested a refund from MinerSource last Friday, was immediately told it would get done and mailed on Monday or Tuesday of this week, and I would receive a tracking number.  I have still not received a tracking number and have emailed twice asking for a status update.  I have no idea if it is in the mail or not, or the status of my refund.  Bobsag, please look into my email inquiry.

Thanks,

DebitMe

You are using "FUD" wrong.

Regardless, our funds were supposed to be used for the purpose of paying for development and operations costs to get these chips to fruition.  That means they would have to be turned into fiat somehow, and used to pay with.  The devices are also priced in USD, and the bitcoin amount changes with price fluctuations.  Essentially, I was not paying in btc, I was paying a set fiat amount.  I should be entitled to a set fiat return of the amount equal to the date I paid.

Since they were supposed to convert the bitcoins into currency at the time of purchase in order to pay for the production of the miners, will refunds be for the amount of bitcoins paid or for the order?  Certainly they do not have any bitcoins since everything is being used to fund the production run...and as such we should receive the USD value back from a refund correct?

That's assuming they ship on May 1.  She says they'll be able to issue refunds after they ship.  After watching these people split hairs and equivocate for months what I notice is there is no date by which they'll refund.  That's about as open ended as you can get, and par for the course with these people. 

Sometime after May 1.  Well, that just clears it right up.  It's not even an answer aside from saying it won't be sooner than that.

If they decide to bail and not ship, it's nada.  If they're not satisfied with their financial position or they're late again and May 1 brings nothing but more refund requests we'll see what they say at that point.  "We did not say May of what year, please check back in 2015"

Does that mean people who ordered in November on BigCommerce will finally have their orders transferred?

seems to be pretty close to the way it is, likely due to consumer protection laws and the assumption, right or wrong, that people won't file in China to litigate.

the shell game of who is in charge makes it somewhat unclear as to where would be the best place to file until people start to probe those limits, which will likely happen if they blow through May 1.  At that point those balsa wood barriers of obfuscation will get blown through immediately and will prove worthless.  

Yup that's the same letter I've seen from others.

1.  We'll try to refund, but aren't obligated to do so.  We'll try to shift the order to someone else.
2.  The mining calculators are wrong.

1.  I doubt they have a line of customers forming to move orders to.  These things are not profitable at this point by any calculator but theirs, apparently.

2.  They've been saying this for months about the difficulty.  Yet the difficulty keeps going up.  People are not unplugging their miners, industrial centers are coming online and other manufacturers, such as Cointerra, are shipping.  I've got a Cointerra running myself, so I know they're shipping on time at this point.  Nice miner, easy setup.  A kid could plug this thing in, although it's louder than I expected.   I'm only mentioning it, as I'd expect these from BA to be similarly loud.  I had to stick this thing in a room and wall it off, as it's like a 747 sitting on a tarmac, so make sure you've got the ability to do that, in terms of your wiring and your data cabling.  When summer rolls in I'll have to do something in terms of ventilation although right now I'm blowing it out into the house and using it as some amount of heating for the upstairs.

Further to that, if they're so sure that these will continue to be profitable, they should be covering their batch 1 people with the expectation that they will continue to sell miners or make a killing mining on their own.  By their own logic, the more people that cancel their orders, the more money BA makes in the long term, as they keep those miners and profit from them.  

As has become typical to the point of predictable, their words do not in any way match their actions and you could drive a truck through the holes in the logic.  They tell us mining will continue to be profitable but are seemingly unwilling to shoulder that risk themselves.

they've failed to deliver, difficulty is through the roof, I don't see it likely that they're going to make this May 1 deadline either, and they're leaving their customers to twist in the wind while telling them that all is going to be just fine.  Meanwhile, they're marching merrily down the path spending our fucking money setting up their cloud/self-mining op and scrypt miner operation.  

These are not the actions of an ethical company, nor one that values it's customers.  The actions speak to a greed driven model with risk pushed off to their customers and the profit sucked up by pigs who couldn't give 2 shits that the people that made their enterprise possible are getting creamed.

They can do better.  They should do better.  Their business is going down the shitter unless they step up, as their name is up there with the other dirtbags in this industry at this point.  Will they?  doubt it.  they've shown no morals, and precious little vision.  a company run by lawyers and calculators that doesn't value goodwill one iota - and that's a huge fucking mistake.