Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 80. (Read 96804 times)

and Phinneaus Gage was right all along about these people.

Well well well...absolutely no surprise there BA.  You guys are the biggest scam artists of them all, hope you had fun mining with people's orders, and are just now planning to send them out, while offering people shit comp.  Always remember karma is a bitch as you will never receive another dollar from any one of your customers that have previously ordered from you, oh wait, yes you will, because they need PSU's for your shitty product since you didn't announce how to hook them up with ATX PSU's.  SURPRISE!

it doesn't surprise me at all.

they've been delaying further info  on the compensation until ship time with the explanation that it made no sense to talk about it until that point.  stringing people along.

it's what they've been doing since January and probably even before that, when they knew there was a problem with the initial date and waited until shortly before delivery to disclose that fact.

let's recap.  this is all from memory, as I'm not going back through this whole thread to reconstruct their bullshit, so this may be a little off.  I'll leave that to the lawyers and anyone else that would like to correct any of this.

1.  February was a conservative ship date.
2.  they would meet competitor pricing at ship time or offer equivalent compensation, or some such thing.  it's been such a long strange trip even I've forgotten what they've promised, but I know this ain't it
3.  They were two weeks ahead "last I heard" until shortly before delivery, at which point they had essentially nothing, hadn't hashed a hash or even taped out their ASIC.  They offered some cloud hashing BS as compensation.  Could not do anything more.  No way.  Too Broke (but we're working on a scrypt miner)
4.  Then it was May 1 delivery and an additional Th/s unit (but no power supply) and they continued to promise to keep the above promises with respect to $/Gh at shipping and there would be some surprise.
5.  Then oops our backplane doesn't work, but don't worry we're working day and night on this and will still meet our other promises.
6.  And here we are, a delay of ~4.5 months, which is longer than the time from when most people ordered to expected delivery and they have reneged on their other promises and, again, screwed people on compensation after telling them they were simply waiting to ship to update that portion of things.  Again, there's just nothing they can do (you  should believe us this time, although we were clearly full of crap last time)

but no, no lies here.  as far as I'm concerned this has been an obvious and concerted effort to string people along the entire time and they are now selling a unit that's worth about 3k to people for 6K, tossing in a minimal bone and calling it even.  that's utter bullshit.  fraud?  I dunno, you'll have to make your own judgements I suppose on whether or not this was an orchestrated attempt to keep the suckers onboard.  I know I'm filing complaints with every government agency I can find.

and for the couple/few nuthugging fools that were on here defending these people this entire time and berating those of us that were pointing this out all along as if we were paranoid tinfoil hat wearing assholes.  you are the biggest morons of them all.  

"wait, wait we've got a surprise and more compensation"

WHERE IS IT BLACK SHIT ARROW ??

ah also your 100 fucking chips will cost 5000$ to run
how do you think this is a compensation ??

"Currently we are unable to raise the compensation more than announced previously. The final decision will be made after we complete all deliveries in order to calculate the yield and our final costs.

    However, we have done all preliminary calculations possible right now and due to our design focused on quality including:

    -8 layer PCBs

    -heatpipe heatsinks

    -aluminium case

    -included power supply

    -long life 4 wire 5000 RPM fans

    -genuine parts (capacitors, resistors, mosfets, inductors etc)

    -capacitors that cannot explode

Our current design will not be able to directly compete on price with competitors’ design most of which are using one or more of the following:

    -4 layers PCBs

    -extruded aluminum heatsinks

    -steel cases or case-less units

    -no power supplies

    -1500 rpm 2 wire fan (no speed control, no rpm reading)"


what is this shit BA ? we don't give a fuck about your heatsinks we want TH power
you decided to use superior quality bulid , well that's your choice !!

you lied another time, now you don't want to compensate more than a shitty deal
just because of your "superior quality " shit ?

the added value added by theses "superior builds" doesn't equal the difference between
the other brands in terms of TH power

If it was deleted, it should have stayed deleted.

and refunds take months.

Regards!

I wouldn't imagine you'd admit you had.  The links I provided are for people to file general complaints if they so choose at this point. 

Complaints will be filed with appropriate agencies in the US and China.  You can make your arguments with them.

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Quote
Let's talk about those X1 orders for a minute. Any explanation from David or direct from BA as to why people who paid after I did to MS received their X1s and the earlier direct BA customers have not?

Here are some of the emails I received from BA in response to a direct refund request. By the end of it, it turns out BA does not have access to their own system to process refunds. This is seriously a scam. No question about it. Read it for yourself. They have stopped replying to my emails.



Dear *******,

We are sorry to hear that you do not wish to continue with your order. As your order has already been put in production it is difficult for us to issue you with a refund. However, we do not want to make anyone unhappy therefore we will do our best to refund your money by moving your order to a new customer.

We have started manufacturing the X1 with our control boards and we have received an update from the management.
And as the team is trying to smoothen out the challenges with Prospero X3; we were told of the new updates from the management that was just released; and you can view the latest and complete updates/news on our website's news section by clicking this link - http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list

We understand your concerns also your situation, and be assured that all efforts to expedite everything; is aimed to give our customers the best of our products and services.

We received queries and suggestions regarding compensation packages. We will address the compensation issues as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

Few months ago we announced that we have a surprise in store for our customers. We will disclose the full details as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

We recognize the importance of this topic and our management team will address it accordingly.
However, we understand that you might not agree with us and we'll offer you the refund if you decide to go ahead with it.

If you wish to proceed with the refund, please understand and agree with the following:
1. We can only pay the same way the payment was made, Black Arrow is not an investment or insurance company and cannot accept to be taken advantage of.

2. A refund request is final. We will not accept to reinstate your order if you change your mind later.

3. As per agreed terms and conditions of sale, we are not obliged to issue you with a refund and this delay is acceptable. However, we are doing our best to keep everyone happy and we'll issue the refund.

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

The date for all FIAT refunds is after we are able to ship our products. We will be able to issue refunds after we start shipping our products as at that time we can allocate personnel to process this type of refunds. We will do our best to start FIAT refunds at an earlier date if we will have available personnel.

Unfortunately we cannot provide refund in FIAT currencies at the earlier date. If you wish refund for more than one order, we will refund all orders in one transfer to minimize the costs.

To process your refund request properly, kindly share your banking details and please feel free to contact us if you will have any further questions.

Sincerely,
Sylvia



Dear ********,

We understand your situation as we also had order placed with the company before we started working in it and we have also lost a lot of money we have invested.

The refund can be done only after we ship 1st batch of the hardwares, as money collected are not just kept in bank account, but spent for the production.

I would ask you to kindly wait until we ship our devices 1st batch which is not far off from now and then your refund can be issued.

Apologies for the inconvenience this may have caused you and Please feel free to contact us anytime for further questions, thank you.

Sincerely,
Sylvia




Dear ********,

Kindly understand that I don't have access to the refund process and the only best thing that I can do for your request is to make a follow-up of your refund request. Also understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything.

And with regard to the refund process, this will be done soon. The management just needs to properly smoothen out the shipment of all Batch 1 and Batch 2 orders, and then all refund requests also with the other pending process requests will be the next priority.

Understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything, and that includes the refund process. And since your refund request has already been escalated, please make sure you do have a confirmation that you are on the refund list after the proper review has been done.

Sincerely,
Sylvia

Wow, attacks coming in already.  Let see what real people think, not trolls from BA.

Who is with me in contacting the other legitimate ASIC resellers and seeing if they will help support us in pursuing legal action? As part of the Bitcoin community, we need to stick together here and weed out scams like this one.

Let's agree on a list of potential resellers and manufactures to contact. Maybe the Bitcoin Foundation could help as well?

and these are all canned responses.  I've gotten the exact same ones.  

all of it is utter horse-shit and again, against the law.  Pre-order funds are mandated to be held in an account, so their assertions indicating otherwise are an admission that they are in violation of the law, as well as conflicting with their earlier statements that most of the money was raised outside of customer funds. 

In these cases they also bear responsibility for the cost of getting these refunds out, including bank fees AND interest for the time they've held our money, not to mention their 'handling fee'.  they owe us money, not the other way around, at this point.

basically, they will say whatever they think will delay these refunds from going out and they have played the same game in stringing customers along for months at this point.  it is a pattern of behavior seemingly based on fraudulent practices and intent.

it is time for anyone that actually wants their money back to file complaints.  the actions of these people indicate to me that they have absolutely zero intention of refunding a dime to anyone.

Take a look at how Projects led a horribly successful scam using similar tactics. You can see how this works here, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4377568. I am not just trying to be an a$$ here. Blackarrow really is a scam.

Let's talk about those X1 orders for a minute. Any explanation from David or direct from BA as to why people who paid after I did to MS received their X1s and the earlier direct BA customers have not?

Here are some of the emails I received from BA in response to a direct refund request. By the end of it, it turns out BA does not have access to their own system to process refunds. This is seriously a scam. No question about it. Read it for yourself. They have stopped replying to my emails.



Dear *******,

We are sorry to hear that you do not wish to continue with your order. As your order has already been put in production it is difficult for us to issue you with a refund. However, we do not want to make anyone unhappy therefore we will do our best to refund your money by moving your order to a new customer.

We have started manufacturing the X1 with our control boards and we have received an update from the management.
And as the team is trying to smoothen out the challenges with Prospero X3; we were told of the new updates from the management that was just released; and you can view the latest and complete updates/news on our website's news section by clicking this link - http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list

We understand your concerns also your situation, and be assured that all efforts to expedite everything; is aimed to give our customers the best of our products and services.

We received queries and suggestions regarding compensation packages. We will address the compensation issues as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

Few months ago we announced that we have a surprise in store for our customers. We will disclose the full details as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

We recognize the importance of this topic and our management team will address it accordingly.
However, we understand that you might not agree with us and we'll offer you the refund if you decide to go ahead with it.

If you wish to proceed with the refund, please understand and agree with the following:
1. We can only pay the same way the payment was made, Black Arrow is not an investment or insurance company and cannot accept to be taken advantage of.

2. A refund request is final. We will not accept to reinstate your order if you change your mind later.

3. As per agreed terms and conditions of sale, we are not obliged to issue you with a refund and this delay is acceptable. However, we are doing our best to keep everyone happy and we'll issue the refund.

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

The date for all FIAT refunds is after we are able to ship our products. We will be able to issue refunds after we start shipping our products as at that time we can allocate personnel to process this type of refunds. We will do our best to start FIAT refunds at an earlier date if we will have available personnel.

Unfortunately we cannot provide refund in FIAT currencies at the earlier date. If you wish refund for more than one order, we will refund all orders in one transfer to minimize the costs.

To process your refund request properly, kindly share your banking details and please feel free to contact us if you will have any further questions.

Sincerely,
Sylvia



Dear ********,

We understand your situation as we also had order placed with the company before we started working in it and we have also lost a lot of money we have invested.

The refund can be done only after we ship 1st batch of the hardwares, as money collected are not just kept in bank account, but spent for the production.

I would ask you to kindly wait until we ship our devices 1st batch which is not far off from now and then your refund can be issued.

Apologies for the inconvenience this may have caused you and Please feel free to contact us anytime for further questions, thank you.

Sincerely,
Sylvia




Dear ********,

Kindly understand that I don't have access to the refund process and the only best thing that I can do for your request is to make a follow-up of your refund request. Also understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything.

And with regard to the refund process, this will be done soon. The management just needs to properly smoothen out the shipment of all Batch 1 and Batch 2 orders, and then all refund requests also with the other pending process requests will be the next priority.

Understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything, and that includes the refund process. And since your refund request has already been escalated, please make sure you do have a confirmation that you are on the refund list after the proper review has been done.

Sincerely,
Sylvia

http://answers.usa.gov/system/templates/selfservice/USAGov/#!portal/1012/article/3202/Overseas-Fraud

FAQ #3202 | Last Reviewed: 6/9/2014
Overseas Fraud
Overseas Companies
To file a complaint about fraudulent business practices committed by overseas/foreign companies, contact the country Desk Officer at 1-800-USA-TRAD(E) (1-800-872-8723) or by writing to:

International Trade Administration
U.S. Department of Commerce
1401 Constitution Ave NW
Washington, D.C. 20230

Overseas Fraud Online
To file a complaint specifically about e-commerce (business or trade that takes place on the Internet) across international borders, please visit http://www.econsumer.gov

U.S. Citizens
If you are in the U.S., contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357) or file a complaint online using their Online Complaint Assistant .

Up up and away! 

Yes, it is a scam! You need to stop fooling yourself here. Ask yourself how long it took from the first 'working' video of the X1 and when paying customers (not David, a BA spokesperson) actually received it. O wait, I still haven't received my batch 1 order for X1s from Blackarrow. They refuse to say if I am on this mythical 'refund list' and they have not shipped anything. So, good luck with your 'proof' of X3 existing and shipping next week.
 

I paid $2799 for a nonexistent X3 last year, so I would guess they will sell for around that if they get produced.  

I want a conclusion to this fraud. Black Arrow needs to deliver their worthless garbage, declare bankruptcy or do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars go directly to jail.

END THIS FUCKING GAME YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES!