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Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin - page 11. (Read 22398 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
June 03, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
I edited my previous post.  I could not comment on your posts Myrkul.  I humbly realize when my mental capabilities are inferior.  At least I can acknowledge that.  Some women do not seem to be able to, so hopefully you can at least respect that. Wink
Don't feel bad, we're straying beyond my ability to firmly grasp the concepts, and I suspect we left crumbcake in the dust some time ago. Suffice it to say that I consider the universe as a whole to be a chaotic (determinative, but difficult to predict, and impossible to predict accurately without omniscience) system, and that consciousness is a monkey wrench in causality. In other words, I believe in free will.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
June 03, 2013, 06:38:38 PM
I edited my previous post.  I could not comment on your posts Myrkul.  I humbly realize when my mental capabilities are inferior.  At least I can acknowledge that.  Some women do not seem to be able to, so hopefully you can at least respect that. Wink
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
June 03, 2013, 06:33:33 PM
Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  
This is good advice. If you wish to comment on anything I or Rassah have said, I'd be interested in hearing it.
Nutsacks and F'bombs.  Need I say more? 

But then I am not a guy.  Maybe it is a "male bonding thing" I just don't get.   Tongue
FWIW, that was all crumbcake. He's clearly not the most mature example of humanity.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
June 03, 2013, 06:30:45 PM
Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  
This is good advice. If you wish to comment on anything I or Rassah have said, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Myrkul- you are posts are beyond my mental capabilities so could not comment even if I wanted to unfortunately.

As for crumbcake:

Nutsacks and F'bombs.  Need I say more?  

But then I am not a guy.  Maybe it is a "male bonding thing" I just don't get.   Tongue
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
June 03, 2013, 06:23:59 PM
Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  
This is good advice. If you wish to comment on anything I or Rassah have said, I'd be interested in hearing it.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 03, 2013, 06:20:14 PM
Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  I am not sure how it degenerated to this?   Roll Eyes  I thought we were having a nice deep discussion here.  Sigh. Oh well. . .

If it's all the same to you, I feel as if our discussion has come to a really nice and amenable end, and I wouldn't want it to get mired in crap again, so I'd like to leave it where it is  Smiley
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
June 03, 2013, 05:50:59 PM
Yes, i get it.  To you, love could be reduced to altered brain chemistry -> altered release/reuptake of neurotransmitters.  Got it.  As i said, take a few tabs of ecstasy & go to town. Rinse & repeat.  
Somebody told me that all three of fruit fly's pleasure synapses are firing on the dime when it sticks its sucker into a drop stale beer.  Terminal happiness.  Nirvana.  Guys, it just don't get no better than this.  Just a curious aside for you.  BTW, you do realise that unless you start introducing variables & fudge-factors, you're stuck in clockwork determinism?  Irrelevant.
Forgive me if i don't weep with you when you tell your stories of young love on the rocks.  Now that you've explained it to me, i feel as much for you as for my washing machine.


Some people feel love and wonder at their sports or muscle cars. Some even moreso at their expensive exotic cars. I'm sure this wonder is an actual component in the engine somewhere, right? Or is it a soul in the transmission that god put there?

Also, no, it's you who doesn't know physics, but thanks for trying to cover that up by pretending that I'm the one who doesn't get it. My blood lineage is the reason we made it to the Moon and Mars in the first place, and, sure, I may not have lived up to it fully, but I'm no stranger to it all either.

Your blood lineage?  I could care less whose nutsack you came from, my furry little friend.  Mind your fuckin' manners.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
June 03, 2013, 06:19:53 PM
For your "consciousness" to do anything, something must first cause it to do so.  In a causally-bound universe, there are no uncaused events, no free volition.  So your consciousness is as predetermined as everything else, just a slightly more intricate clockwork.  Try again?
Is it? Are you so certain? Call it god of the gaps, if you want, but sapience, consciousness, volition, seems to me to be the one "uncaused" thing in this universe. I can decide that I want to, or do not want to, reply to your next post, and that decision influences my brain state, which in turn changes my actions. It's not a probabilistic function, nor a determinative one. It is a volitional act.

So you believe that some things fall outside of causation?  Your conscience, for one, is not bound by the same rules that govern the rest of the universe?  What exactly made your councience so special ... oh, wait, i said "made," that causal trap again... Cheesy

I've written chatbots (slightly more complex washing machines) which would have discussed Kant much better than 90% of the folks i know.  What's your point?
I'm sure you could.
  Not could -- did Grin

Quote
But it wouldn't be that chat bot discussing Kant. It would be you, putting your thoughts on his philosophy into a text file, from which the bot would choose, based on the question asked it. It's just a sophisticated way for you to discuss Kant with many people all at once.

Wait, are you saying if i was a Christian, by talking to people i'd be conversing with ... God? Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
June 03, 2013, 06:11:56 PM
Rassah,  just ignore crumbcake.  I am not sure how it degenerated to this?   Roll Eyes  I thought we were having a nice deep discussion here.  Sigh. Oh well. . .
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
June 03, 2013, 06:10:35 PM
For your "consciousness" to do anything, something must first cause it to do so.  In a causally-bound universe, there are no uncaused events, no free volition.  So your consciousness is as predetermined as everything else, just a slightly more intricate clockwork.  Try again?
Is it? Are you so certain? Call it god of the gaps, if you want, but sapience, consciousness, volition, seems to me to be the one "uncaused" thing in this universe. I can decide that I want to, or do not want to, reply to your next post, and that decision influences my brain state, which in turn changes my actions. It's not a probabilistic function, nor a determinative one. It is a volitional act.

I've written chatbots (slightly more complex washing machines) which would have discussed Kant much better than 90% of the folks i know.  What's your point?
I'm sure you could. But it wouldn't be that chat bot discussing Kant. It would be you, putting your thoughts on his philosophy into a text file, from which the bot would choose, based on the question asked it. It's just a sophisticated way for you to discuss Kant with many people all at once.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 03, 2013, 05:58:04 PM
Also, no, it's you who doesn't know physics, but thanks for trying to cover that up by pretending that I'm the one who doesn't get it. My blood lineage is the reason we made it to the Moon and Mars in the first place, and, sure, I may not have lived up to it fully, but I'm no stranger to it all either.

Your blood lineage?  I could care less whose nutsack you came from, my furry little friend.  Mind your fuckin' manners.

Now who's reducing it all to mechanics? It's not who's nutsack I came from, as you so eloquently put it, it's where I grew up, with whom, in what culture, who raised me, and with what values and history. All those things you accuse me of ignoring in your replies about mechanics of love. So kindly fuck off, good sir.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
June 03, 2013, 05:47:33 PM
Forgive me if i don't weep with you when you tell your stories of young love on the rocks.  Now that you've explained it to me, i feel as much for you as for my washing machine.
There's that wonder/mystery thing again. Look, just because we can fully explain what happens when someone falls in love does not reduce the wonder of that emotion. It is still a great thing, a driving force of the universe, and the result of our consciousness. Human consciousness is that "fudge factor," that turns a deterministic system into a chaotic one. Because we can, just by thinking, change the state of our minds. Our every conscious thought modifies the electrochemical patterns in our brain, making us far more wonderful (again, original, undiluted meaning) than a mere machine.

Remember i gave you the link to "begging the question," "petitio principii"?  Did you follow that link?  You should have.
For your "consciousness" to do anything, something must first cause it to do so.  In a casually-bound universe, there are no uncaused events, no free volition.  So your consciousness is as predetermined as everything else, just a slightly more intricate clockwork.  Try again?

When you make matter out of nothing, get back to me.
http://home.web.cern.ch/
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 03, 2013, 05:40:57 PM
Yes, i get it.  To you, love could be reduced to altered brain chemistry -> altered release/reuptake of neurotransmitters.  Got it.  As i said, take a few tabs of ecstasy & go to town. Rinse & repeat.  
Somebody told me that all three of fruit fly's pleasure synapses are firing on the dime when it sticks its sucker into a drop stale beer.  Terminal happiness.  Nirvana.  Guys, it just don't get no better than this.  Just a curious aside for you.  BTW, you do realise that unless you start introducing variables & fudge-factors, you're stuck in clockwork determinism?  Irrelevant.
Forgive me if i don't weep with you when you tell your stories of young love on the rocks.  Now that you've explained it to me, i feel as much for you as for my washing machine.


Some people feel love and wonder at their sports or muscle cars. Some even moreso at their expensive exotic cars. I'm sure this wonder is an actual component in the engine somewhere, right? Or is it a soul in the transmission that god put there?

Also, no, it's you who doesn't know physics, but thanks for trying to cover that up by pretending that I'm the one who doesn't get it. My blood lineage is the reason we made it to the Moon and Mars in the first place, and, sure, I may not have lived up to it fully, but I'm no stranger to it all either.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
June 03, 2013, 05:31:06 PM
Forgive me if i don't weep with you when you tell your stories of young love on the rocks.  Now that you've explained it to me, i feel as much for you as for my washing machine.
There's that wonder/mystery thing again. Look, just because we can fully explain what happens when someone falls in love does not reduce the wonder of that emotion. It is still a great thing, a driving force of the universe, and the result of our consciousness. Human consciousness is that "fudge factor," that turns a deterministic system into a chaotic one. Because we can, just by thinking, change the state of our minds. Our every conscious thought modifies the electrochemical patterns in our brain, making us far more wonderful (again, original, undiluted meaning) than a mere machine.

The genetic makeup of Rassah's brain determined that who he falls in love with will be male. He chose the values that would attract him to a person. He saw values he admired in that other man, and the interaction of his conscious decisions and genetic predispositions created that beautiful synthesis that we call love.

Try asking your washing machine what it thinks of Kant some day.

When you make matter out of nothing, get back to me.
http://home.web.cern.ch/
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
June 03, 2013, 05:19:09 PM
If you feel that love could be explained, to your satisfaction, as a set of chemical formulas, i'm afraid i have no better analogies.  You'll have to settle for dry arguments to internal consistency.  Of course, by expressing love in a set of formulas, you've made it as elevated & sublime as as the crap you took today, and just as laudable.

I didn't say that love was meaningless. We can measure changes in brain chemistry when someone feels love. We can measure changes in electrical brain activity. We can even track permanent structural changes in the brain synapses when someone falls in love, and the continuing changes as that love continues to affect that person's life. All I was saying was that it's measurable, not magical. Just because landing an SUV on Mars and being able to take high resolution pictures of another planet was entirely reliant on an enormous slew of physics calculations, doesn't make the fact that we actually f'in did that any less special. It also doesn't make it a magical miracle.
It's like the religious mindset has inextricably bound wonder and mystery together, and they find themselves incapable of experiencing wonder without the mystery.
I can tell you in pretty exact detail how the atoms in our bodies (and everything else) were formed. That doesn't make it any less awesome and amazing (in their undiluted meaning) that we are made of star-dust. How's that for wonder?

Stardust?  Meh.  The "i can explain everything with my maths & other learnings" offers a reality no more convincing than the the straw bombers made by & worshiped by islanders during WW2.  Yeah, sure looks similar, but ... will it drop goodies?  The straw bombers proved useless, but not for the lack of trying.  Goodies never fell from the sky after the murkans left, no matter what the islanders did.  Dat's 'coz they doing it wrong.

When you make matter out of nothing, get back to me.  'Till then, enjoy your cargo cult. Cheesy

Quote
Jesus died for your sins? That's nice. Stars died so that you can exist.

Drama. Cheesy
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
June 03, 2013, 05:01:21 PM
If you feel that love could be explained, to your satisfaction, as a set of chemical formulas, i'm afraid i have no better analogies.  You'll have to settle for dry arguments to internal consistency.  Of course, by expressing love in a set of formulas, you've made it as elevated & sublime as as the crap you took today, and just as laudable.

I didn't say that love was meaningless. We can measure changes in brain chemistry when someone feels love. We can measure changes in electrical brain activity. We can even track permanent structural changes in the brain synapses when someone falls in love, and the continuing changes as that love continues to affect that person's life. All I was saying was that it's measurable, not magical. Just because landing an SUV on Mars and being able to take high resolution pictures of another planet was entirely reliant on an enormous slew of physics calculations, doesn't make the fact that we actually f'in did that any less special. It also doesn't make it a magical miracle.

Yes, i get it.  To you, love could be reduced to altered brain chemistry -> altered release/reuptake of neurotransmitters.  Got it.  As i said, take a few tabs of ecstasy & go to town. Rinse & repeat.  
Somebody told me that all three of fruit fly's pleasure synapses are firing on the dime when it sticks its sucker into a drop stale beer.  Terminal happiness.  Nirvana.  Guys, it just don't get no better than this.  Just a curious aside for you.  BTW, you do realise that unless you start introducing variables & fudge-factors, you're stuck in clockwork determinism?  Irrelevant.
Forgive me if i don't weep with you when you tell your stories of young love on the rocks.  Now that you've explained it to me, i feel as much for you as for my washing machine.
 
No, it's not like that.  I assumed you understood the difference between Newtonian physics & quantum mechanics.  It's not a question of approximation & rounding off decimal points, it's  an entirely different paradigm with radically different results.  After you do something basic like convert mass into energy with Newtonian physics, get back to me.  In the meantime: Learn to physics.

I understand what the difference is, thanks. One applies to a scale that has little effect to the scale of another. Maybe my analogy would have been better if I had compared finding the circumference of a circle using Pi, to finding a never touching tangent to a derivative curve using an infinitely close approximation. Sure, the later can be close, but since it never touches and just gets closer, it's not the same.

No, you still don't get it.  Please learn to physics.

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Whatever. Point is that Newtonian physics is supported by repeatable testing, and is practically fact at macro scale, while quantum physics is all those same things at micro scale.

No, no and no.  I don't care if you don't know physics, but don't try to wing it.

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Neither type of physics involved fancy stories to explain something we don't understand, which are passed as fact.

You've obviously never studied physics.  Until you do, take my word for it:  physics is no moar "factual" than the flimsiest myth.  What's funnier, through explicit reliance on logic, physics is not even intrinsically sound.
  
Quote
Point me to something god related that is also testable and repeatable, and maybe I'll consider it.

I'm not offering anything up for your consideration, i'm not some born-again pushing Christianity on you.  This is not a sales pitch, don't lowball me. Cheesy

edit: tags
edit2: typo
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
June 03, 2013, 04:31:23 PM
If you feel that love could be explained, to your satisfaction, as a set of chemical formulas, i'm afraid i have no better analogies.  You'll have to settle for dry arguments to internal consistency.  Of course, by expressing love in a set of formulas, you've made it as elevated & sublime as as the crap you took today, and just as laudable.

I didn't say that love was meaningless. We can measure changes in brain chemistry when someone feels love. We can measure changes in electrical brain activity. We can even track permanent structural changes in the brain synapses when someone falls in love, and the continuing changes as that love continues to affect that person's life. All I was saying was that it's measurable, not magical. Just because landing an SUV on Mars and being able to take high resolution pictures of another planet was entirely reliant on an enormous slew of physics calculations, doesn't make the fact that we actually f'in did that any less special. It also doesn't make it a magical miracle.
It's like the religious mindset has inextricably bound wonder and mystery together, and they find themselves incapable of experiencing wonder without the mystery.

I can tell you in pretty exact detail how the atoms in our bodies (and everything else) were formed. That doesn't make it any less awesome and amazing (in their undiluted meaning) that we are made of star-dust. How's that for wonder?

Jesus died for your sins? That's nice. Stars died so that you can exist.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 03, 2013, 04:24:26 PM
If you feel that love could be explained, to your satisfaction, as a set of chemical formulas, i'm afraid i have no better analogies.  You'll have to settle for dry arguments to internal consistency.  Of course, by expressing love in a set of formulas, you've made it as elevated & sublime as as the crap you took today, and just as laudable.

I didn't say that love was meaningless. We can measure changes in brain chemistry when someone feels love. We can measure changes in electrical brain activity. We can even track permanent structural changes in the brain synapses when someone falls in love, and the continuing changes as that love continues to affect that person's life. All I was saying was that it's measurable, not magical. Just because landing an SUV on Mars and being able to take high resolution pictures of another planet was entirely reliant on an enormous slew of physics calculations, doesn't make the fact that we actually f'in did that any less special. It also doesn't make it a magical miracle.

 
No, it's not like that.  I assumed you understood the difference between Newtonian physics & quantum mechanics.  It's not a question of approximation & rounding off decimal points, it's  an entirely different paradigm with radically different results.  After you do something basic like convert mass into energy with Newtonian physics, get back to me.  In the meantime: Learn to physics.

I understand what the difference is, thanks. One applies to a scale that has little effect to the scale of another. Maybe my analogy would have been better if I had compared finding the circumference of a circle using Pi, to finding a never touching tangent to a derivative curve using an infinitely close approximation. Sure, the later can be close, but since it never touches and just gets closer, it's not the same.

Whatever. Point is that Newtonian physics is supported by repeatable testing, and is practically fact at macro scale, while quantum physics is all those same things at micro scale. Neither type of physics involved fancy stories to explain something we don't understand, which are passed as fact. Point me to something god related that is also testable and repeatable, and maybe I'll consider it.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
June 03, 2013, 04:14:13 PM
Classic god-of-the-gaps argument. For me, the very existence of the book of Isaiah, for instance, results in a number of serious gaps, which IMHO demonstrate the equation to be more like 2+2x=4y. When God is not making a point, all things work to the tune of 'x=2y-1', everything works predictably. Why would you pay any attention to 'y'? It's when it doesn't add up that you start to question, am I missing something? Is there a more intricate equation? Unfortunately you're also past that, to shrugging your shoulders. Also a terrible analogy.

Well, sure, that happens all the time. We always expect 'y' to be 0, but sometimes it's not, and so we investigate what 'y' is and expand the equation. We don't just say, "'y' must have been a miracle, praise god!"  Well, scientists don't. Fundamentalist Christians do.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
June 03, 2013, 04:09:59 PM
however the changes are normally so small and un-noticeable that they are easily identified.

Can you rephrase that please?

Ah, sorry:

Quote
however the changes are normally so small and un-notable that they are easily corrected.

Finding them is trivial, just run diff on the manuscripts.
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