Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin - page 12. (Read 22437 times)

This train of thought is what destroys the Christian organized religion, and leads to a more personal, spiritual understanding of religion. And I'm all for it. For some people, like me, an extra step of just dropping the spiritual side was needed, for others they're perfectly content holding on to whatever part of Christianity they are willing to leave themselves with. As long as people realize that their ethics come from themselves, and not from a dogmatic book or some set of man-made laws, which claim to be inerrant, I'm ok with it.



The issue I have with this idea is, let's say someone broke into your house, and stole one of your most cherished possessions. Or worse, killed one of your loved family members. This criminal is the one who did the act, who must now seek your forgiveness. What would you say if I said that I forgive him on your behalf? What about god forgiving him on your behalf? That's what Jesus did when he "died for our sins." So why were the people who lived during Jesus's time accepting that "everything is cool now" because someone else forgave those who wronged them personally? I guess some would say that such act requires forgiveness from both, god, and the person who was wronged, but then the fact that god may have forgiven someone who didn't do anything against him personally (except maybe break a few laws) is little solace.



I think that depends  more on how one lives their life, than whether there is Jesus in it. My life is totally devoid of Jesus, as are the lives of many others I know, and our lives are still filled with joy and love. We get that from the world around us, and our family and friends. At the same time, those people who are constantly afraid of hell and sin if they don't follow strict dogma, are likely miserable, despite having lives filled with Jesus. I guess you would say that we live lives as Jesus intended, while others don't, and thus we still get joy out of it. *shrug*

I can conceive that stories or fantasies can be inaccessible to logical analysis, but not knowledge. Mainly because knowledge is something based in a concrete world, which happens to follow a set of strict logical rules, and to violate those rules would mean throwing everything else out of the window. Like, if things don't have to follow logic, why should 2 + 2 = 4 or the speed of light be a constant?

The way it played out in the states was a nauseating goulash of pop interpretations of pop interpretations of "i'm Running Earth Wiccan vulva goddess and this is mystical shit."  Almost made fire & brimstone seem attractive.

New Age is fine, but still, it's the 'coming' of something..

Yeah, we had that in US too, we called it New Age   Crystalz and dreamcatchers & Tarot & scented candles. 

That's 'coz we Americans are so darn complex

It's interesting when they adopt a certain belief they tend to accept the whole 'package', a complete system of world view and way of living, while in East Asia we casually hop from one to another from time to time, and mixing things up a bit, and can hardly feel anything unusual. Maybe we are just quite a bit more superstitious and want blessings from any deity we come upon.

Otoh, whether there is a place for a creator in the Universe is an interesting question on its own, if you can throw away some of the premiums that came with the 'package'.

Same here. Guess freedom of speech and will encourages discussions and conflicts between those who think different. It isn't something that anyone can change or easily influence.

Why Americans have to draw lines when it comes to belief is beyond me.....

I think you are right.  There is a sense of fairness in each of us and when something does not seem "fair" we can't help but question. Because I believe God is just and fair, then something does not work with the entire "Suicide is a cardinal sin" idea.  And I agree that if God was not fair, then why should we serve him?

So, it might surprise you,  but I don't believe that suicide is a cardinal sin.

This is where I differ from most Christians.  I struggled with the whole idea of how a loving God could send people to hell who like the girl were suffering from such horrid things they took their own life.  Or what about the people who never got a chance to even hear about Jesus and make that choice?  Talk about unfair?  Just because you are born into a family that is not Christian, and you never have the chance to even accept Jesus you go to hell?  That is unfair too.  Hence why I did some soul searching on this.

Christians get so dogmatic in the simplistic interpretation of hell and it leads to all kinds of problems.  I had a professor in college that mentioned that the English bible has taken places in the afterlife such as "Sheol and Hades" and simplified the places with "hell" instead.  The problem with this is "hell" has become what we all think of eternal flames and eternal punishment.  Once you are there, you have no chance but to suffer there forever.

In Catholicism purgatory is believed to be a temporary place the dead go to.  The word "purgatory" is not mentioned in scripture though.  However, Sheol and Hades are mentioned.  I think that perhaps there is some hidden truth in the idea of purgatory however. Although the idea of praying for people in Sheol or Hades or paying for indulgences I don't agree with.  But it is something that I think the Protestant churches have ignored.

Basically I believe that when Jesus was in the grave for the 3 days before he rose again he was speaking to the "dead" in a timeless place.  I believe that all people who never had a chance to accept him, or who had a horrible life like that girl, will get a chance there.  Just like here, people will have the chance to accept or reject him though.  Perhaps Jesus is even more merciful to those knowing what they had to endure?  I would say knowing Jesus like I do, that he would certainly reach out with love and compassion and comfort those who had to suffer so much!  It says that Jesus holds the keys to death and the grave in Revelation; "I am the living one. I died, but look--I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave."   Also in 1 Peter 18-19 it says "Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. 19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison"—   I believe that means he spoke to spirits that never got the chance to accept him, for all of time.

In discussing this with other Christians many argue with me.  They have been taught that everything is so "black and white" and it is really hard for them to see beyond that.  Also, there is the concern that in accepting that there is a way for people to accept Jesus after death we may not be as "evangelical".  There is often a desperation among Christians thinking that if they don't force others to believe like they do they will instantly go to hell after death.  I guess I have become more "relaxed" than I used to be in that.  However,  that said, I do have a greater trust that God is fair.  I suppose the reason I still feel compelled to share with others is that life without Jesus is not easy.  It can be a lonely dark place.  Life with Jesus, although not easy, is filled with hope, joy and love.  I am thankful that I can believe and trust in a God that is truly good, loving and kind.  

The Bible doesn't teach morality.  Morals, ethics, all of that stuff's purely secular constructs.  You can be as moral (whatever the society's definition of that happens to be at the moment) as you choose to be -- that's society's measure of your worth.  If the society happens to be a Christendom, being a Christian is a part of being "moral."  You can also be a Christian & absolutely blow it when it comes to mores & social norms -- depends on society.  You might be fed to the lions for lulz.

EDIT flash flash flash:
Forgot the important part:  What are we supposed to learn from it.
The tl;dr is "Love & have no fear," but this has to be internalized all at once, because otherwise it becomes very circular:  You need to have one of the two to get the other.  Sort of like defining x in terms of y, and defining y in terms of x. This sort of anti-intellectual learning is not unique to Christianity, or even to religion/mysticism.  Sure, there are Buddhists who ask you to quiet your mind & dispel mundane logic with koans & stuff.  If that's not your thing, think of gaming, riding a bike or surfing:  You can explain the basics, but to actually do those things reasonably well you *must not think* or your reactions will be too slow.  That's an analogy, and as all analogies, it's neither perfect nor convincing if picked apart, so simply a pointer to a pointer.


Just to make sure we're on the same page:  You can conceive, just as a hypothetical, that certain knowledge is inaccessible to logical analysis?