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Could Ripple XRP replace bitcoin before it is widely accepted?
No.
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More important could Ripple become controlled by business or government?
It already is. By OpenCoin. The founders of Ripple.
Topic: Ripple or Bitcoin - page 38. (Read 34110 times)
No.
I...find the argument that Ripple is keeping XRP's to altruistically fund development to be a bit much.
Have you seen how many people they've hired?
What's elegant about keeping as much as you can get away with? It's profit maximizing for certain. Elegant though?
I'm not a Bitcoin Marxist Redistributionist. I see nothing wrong with private enterprise generating revenue / profit as long as they do not violate anyone's property rights. I hope the Ripple founders and company make a zillion dollars. If Ripple delivers on its promise, they deserve it.
We can agree on that point. It's a business like any other. I just find the argument that Ripple is keeping XRP's to altruistically fund development to be a bit much. By the way, have you ever met a "Bitcoin Marxist Redistributionist" -- that's a mouthful.
I see how it's great for this.
Only as long as you manage to stay anonymous. Otherwise governments can still confiscate any other assets you have. I don't think there is a master plan to try to control Bitcoin yet, what we're seeing is merely low level bureaucrats involved with combating money laundering doing their jobs. But there will be a plan, and part of it will be to gather as many identities behind Bitcoin addresses as possible. And then to pressure people into revealing the identities behind the addresses they've sent BTC to. This could be done simply by taxing all funds that have passed through a known address until the owner reveals who he's made the payment to, then by adding fines, then taint analysis and blacklists etc etc.
My main use for BTC is to protect my savings from confiscation.
I see how it's great for this.
My main use for BTC is to protect my savings from the effects of monetary inflation.
With BTC price instability as it is, is anybody really achieving a long term sort of protection of savings? Or are you worried about hyper-inflation of the USD in the short term? (Who is, really?)
Bitcoin is still a 1B micro-economy under the foot of all of the other moneys of the world. Is it even a deflationary environment? It's too nascent to be anything.
When the real world gets involved new chains could be created on a schedule, just look at all the clone chains today. We could be at the brink of a Keynesian nightmare without even knowing it.
Bitcoin is 100% part of the same insane financial system as the rest of the world at this point, and still in a role of a fringe experiment by geeks.
Joe Regular can change that, but until Bitcoin is ubiquitous (or there's a crisis situation), it's useless to him.
Bitcoin users need to stop using fiat, and use only Bitcoin. Yet today, aren't most transactions just money going in and out of fiat on the exchanges, or idiots playing S.DICE? I'm not seeing how we go from here to there.
Nothing I said was erroneous. Ripple facilitates IOU's between multiple parties. IOU's = Debt. There are zero repayment terms to these IOU's. It doesn't matter if Ripple was built to track loans, Ripple is the facilitator of the loan.
I disagree with the statement that this is the "point" of Ripple.
What's elegant about keeping as much as you can get away with? It's profit maximizing for certain. Elegant though?
I'm not a Bitcoin Marxist Redistributionist. I see nothing wrong with private enterprise generating revenue / profit as long as they do not violate anyone's property rights. I hope the Ripple founders and company make a zillion dollars. If Ripple delivers on its promise, they deserve it.
Bigg, you say you hold BTC, but you also say PoW is a big waste (and, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure you've stated the opinion Bitcoin will be a failure). Do you have any real use for BTC? Are these holdings based on pure speculation that BTC price will go up in the short term?
Whoa...failure? No no...I never said Bitcoin would be a failure. Quite the contrary Bitcoin will be, and already is, a great success! Bitcoin will always fulfill a useful function for as long as it remains the king of proof of work based digital currency.
Proof of work is only wasteful in the sense that Ripple uses a different solution which doesn't require mining. However, the mining in Bitcoin serves a function which is to decentralize the distribution of newly minted coins. Is it possible to distribute coins in a decentralized fashion without proof of work? I'm not so sure that it is. I think this was the genius of Bitcoin.
Ripple solves the problem a different way, and quite elegantly at that. They give themselves all the XRP so that they can fund the company and the software's development. The sequestration effect of ledger reserves allows them to give away billions of XRP without flooding the market (since reserves can't be spent). Ripple provides additional functionality that makes the network useful without having to hoard XRP. The only downside is that it could get people upset.
My main use for BTC is to protect my savings from confiscation and the effects of monetary inflation.
What's elegant about keeping as much as you can get away with? It's profit maximizing for certain. Elegant though?
Anyway, just to reiterate, Ripple could have and still could raise capital like any other company through a variety of mechanisms that wouldn't require them to keep all the XRP's to "fund" development. I actually find this argument hilarious. If you think about it, Ripple is keeping potentially billions of dollars to "fund" said development. Llet's be honest here, Ripple kept the XRP's to make a truckload of money. Good for them -- if that's the way you think.
My main use for BTC is to protect my savings from confiscation and the effects of monetary inflation.
It won't really do that if governments find out the identities behind enough addresses. They're well on their way towards doing that, even though it probably isn't part of a master plan - yet.
Bigg, you say you hold BTC, but you also say PoW is a big waste (and, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure you've stated the opinion Bitcoin will be a failure). Do you have any real use for BTC? Are these holdings based on pure speculation that BTC price will go up in the short term?
Whoa...failure? No no...I never said Bitcoin would be a failure. Quite the contrary Bitcoin will be, and already is, a great success! Bitcoin will always fulfill a useful function for as long as it remains the king of proof of work based digital currency.
Proof of work is only wasteful in the sense that Ripple uses a different solution which doesn't require mining. However, the mining in Bitcoin serves a function which is to decentralize the distribution of newly minted coins. Is it possible to distribute coins in a decentralized fashion without proof of work? I'm not so sure that it is. I think this was the genius of Bitcoin.
Ripple solves the problem a different way, and quite elegantly at that. They give themselves all the XRP so that they can fund the company and the software's development. The sequestration effect of ledger reserves allows them to give away billions of XRP without flooding the market (since reserves can't be spent). Ripple provides additional functionality that makes the network useful without having to hoard XRP. The only downside is that it could get people upset.
My main use for BTC is to protect my savings from confiscation and the effects of monetary inflation.
we're trying to provide him with something truly valuable.
"I'm heavily invested in something called Bitcoin. If you don't know what Bitcoin is....wanna buy some Bitcoin? You sure?" - Stephen ColbertDo you have any real use for BTC? Are these holdings based on pure speculation that BTC price will go up in the short term?
Ripple is too centralized, in my opinion, to be a threat to Bitcoin.
Ripple, a threat to Bitcoin? Let a few people pitch it that way if they want. I think the idea is ridiculous. The space is huge, and there's room for many innovative solutions. Bitcoin's competition is the USD, EUR, YEN, etc... Not Ripple. Slanderers of Ripple are shooting themselves in the foot.
Ripple is not a threat to BTC...
The ability to set up instant exchanges, create custom securities, fast transactions, etc...
Will all benefit the BTC Ecosystem dramatically.
Slanderers of Ripple are are putting THEIR interests AHEAD of Bitcoin...
BTC attracts sociopaths like shit attracts flies...
Behind that thinnest veneer of idealism people here care ONLY about filthy lucre.
And with a tiny $1 billion float BTC is not competing with Fiat currencies...
LOW VELOCITY Bitcoin is not even a "currency", it's a "commodity" people are hoarding...
And it will end up being just that = a GOOD, quaint store of value like gold.
Generation 2.0 networks will take over the crypto-currency space...
Since Bitcoin "development" is dysfunctional, ad hoc, and woefully underfunded...
And grinds to a halt every time Gavin takes a leak.
But in a parallel universe...
Bitcoin's hip, mysterious, post-cultural, omnipotent God-figure...
Will end the Times of Tribulation with His return and the Rapture...
As Early Adopters prevail in the final battle against unworthy Late Adopters...
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven.
I'm your biggest fan QuantPlus.
I want to work for your fund.
Ah, I see.
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And when I have seized the computer from which the transaction was sent I have cryptographic proof that the transaction was sent from somebody controlling it.
Cryptographic proof?Yeah but if I am a goverment I can go to that node, and then to the next one until I find the right one.
That's difficult though, and impossible if the data is thrown away. Do current clients even keep this information around?
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Under a deep packet inspection regime like china does it isn't even necessary to do this physically.
Encryption should solve that. Meshnets will also help.
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And when I have seized the computer from which the transaction was sent I have cryptographic proof that the transaction was sent from somebody controlling it.
Cryptographic proof?
Since Bitcoin "development" is dysfunctional, ad hoc, and woefully underfunded...
And grinds to a halt every time Gavin takes a leak.
And grinds to a halt every time Gavin takes a leak.
Oh Gavin!I'm unfortunately starting to see Bitcoin like Gold 2.0 now too. The network can't handle more than, what, 5 or 10 transactions per second? Won't big business just laugh at BTC as a B&M payment solution?
Ripple, a threat to Bitcoin? Let a few people pitch it that way if they want. I think the idea is ridiculous. The space is huge, and there's room for many innovative solutions. Bitcoin's competition is the USD, EUR, YEN, etc... Not Ripple. Slanderers of Ripple are shooting themselves in the foot.
Ripple is not a threat to BTC...
The ability to set up instant exchanges, create custom securities, fast transactions, etc...
Will all benefit the BTC Ecosystem dramatically.
Slanderers of Ripple are are putting THEIR interests AHEAD of Bitcoin...
BTC attracts sociopaths like shit attracts flies...
Behind that thinnest veneer of idealism people here care ONLY about filthy lucre.
And with a tiny $1 billion float BTC is not competing with Fiat currencies...
LOW VELOCITY Bitcoin is not even a "currency", it's a "commodity" people are hoarding...
And it will end up being just that = a GOOD, quaint store of value like gold.
Generation 2.0 networks will take over the crypto-currency space...
Since Bitcoin "development" is dysfunctional, ad hoc, and woefully underfunded...
And grinds to a halt every time Gavin takes a leak.
But in a parallel universe...
Bitcoin's hip, mysterious, post-cultural, omnipotent God-figure...
Will end the Times of Tribulation with His return and the Rapture...
As Early Adopters prevail in the final battle against unworthy Late Adopters...
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven.
Ripple had a chance to do something significant and special but they are dropping the ball at the 20 yard line. Where is the giveaways they promised for this month (not the bitcointalk thread but the others) and why is their ripple client in such poor condition...just sad.
we're trying to provide him with something truly valuable.
"I'm heavily invested in something called Bitcoin. If you don't know what Bitcoin is....wanna buy some Bitcoin? You sure?" - Stephen Colbert
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