Topic: Ripple or Bitcoin - page 37. (Read 34131 times)

Right. But there was no reason for Ripple to base its transaction system on UNLs and consensus. This transaction system is just inferior to Bitcoin. They could have easily used the Bitcoin transaction system (ie. hashcash/proof-of-work) to record all transactions in Ripple, but they chose not to... instead we have to rely on "trusted" nodes in order to fend off sybil attacks. If people find the Ripple gateway system to really be a benefit, I think it would make sense to build it on top of Bitcoin protocol. As far as ripples (ie. the coin)... that seems to be just another currency with an inferior transaction system.

The receiver of fiat IOUs needs the services of a gateway to receive fiat, and they must pay a fee. But it's the same with Bitcoin. "Competitive" BTC to fiat rates today provide poor value to the consumer.

If Ripple becomes the new platform for the "businesses that offers currency conversion", costs will be slashed for exchanges and gateways and rates will be much lower for everyone.

You could send your cousin in Mumbai rupees directly to their Ripple wallet paying virtually no fee. Of course, they'd have to pay a fee to get their rupee IUOs out of the system. But on the whole, the fees would be much lower than they are today.

Bitcoin can only work to supplant other currencies slowly over time. It will be a long process. Bitcoin = apples, Ripple = oranges imo.

On the other hand, the only service I've needed to convert bitcoins between dollars so far has been localbitcoins, and I'm not sure what would motivate me to use a ripple gateway for that purpose. I can understand the benefit of ripple gateways as a stable pricing mechanism for the whole network, but from an individual's perspective, I don't see what benefits it offers. People already have many places they can go to convert dollars to bitcoin so I'm not sure where the motivation will come from to bring mass adoption of the Ripple system. If you were to draw a comparison between Ripple adoption and Bitcoin adoption, what new benefits would you say Ripple offers the individual over what options are already available for the individual? What drives the individual to choose Ripple over all other options? For Bitcoin, this is incredibly clear to the end consumer, without any need to understand how it works; it makes payment a hell of a lot easier than all tradition methods before it and lowers fees. What does Ripple have to bring to the table that is a clear benefit to an individual who has not looked at the Ripple technology and has no understanding of how Ripple is supposed to benefit the world? If I want to convert currencies, I would go to a business that offers currency conversion, I would then give them one currency and expect for them to hand to me the currency I asked for... why would I care how this business does this for me? As the end consumer, all I care about is that I'm given the currency I asked for in exchange. So why does the end-consumer care about Ripple anymore than any other crypto-currency?

Ya. It just means that I have to rely on Bitcoin to buy magic carpets from Iran and to make donations to wikileaks. But I still think that Ripple could be made better by incorporating superior technologies like Bitcoin with the concept of gateways, or some other method of increasing the decentralization of exchanges.

This has nothing to do with gateways. This is about how servers achieve consensus on what transactions are valid and what is the correct order of transactions. All servers must reach this consensus for there to be a unified ledger of all transactions.

I agree it's taking a step backward in a pure technological sense. However, this step backward from Bitcoin is necessary to move everything forward.

To me, Ripple's failure would have no impact on Bitcoin, and Ripple's success could mean a good chance for Bitcoin to grow.

Obviously you're a terrorist.

I'm assuming a state would have jurisdiction on their local gateways, but not on the global network.

Is it that easy for a superpower to go in and shape the whole network? Couldn't gateways in the Middle East facilitate the carpet transactions despite a fascist state's attempt to block them?

And your point? You are just repeating what I already just pointed out.

Edit: The point is that it has to rely on "reputable parties" in order to fend of Sybil attacks. Bitcoin was an innovation because it did not have to rely on "reputable parties" and now Ripple is taking a step back in the opposite direction. That was the beauty of proof-of-work. Now Ripple comes along and says "Hey, I know, we can just rely on trusting certain people! Who needs proof-of-work!"

The network is made up reputable parties, and according to the wiki "immune" to Sybil attacks :/ https://ripple.com/wiki/Consensus#Split_personalities

So what happens when those nodes that came with the client, and most people are connecting to, become taken over by authorities and start dropping all transactions that are suspected to be involved with Iran? Huh? I can no longer purchase my magic carpet with Ripples?

Here is the advice on how to choose which nodes you should connect to with your ripple peer: http://ripple.com/wiki/Unique_Node_List:


In Bitcoin, my client just connects out to many nodes and chooses the block chain that has the most provable work... so much simpler and less centralized. When you have to know what nodes you can trust, then this drives a tendancy towards centralization. Anybody can forward me the blockchain that has the most provable work... I really don't care who that is, what is important is that it has the most work in it, so I'm guaranteed that most of the network is focusing on that chain. With UNL... there is a high probability that the most trusted nodes (ie. nodes that come with the client, will have the greatest power over transactions)

Bitcoin

With UNL, you are trusting people to tell you which nodes you should connect to. I thought one of the main reasons the bitcoin invention was considered so great was because it came up with a way to get around the need for cumbersome UNLs by using proof-of-work, and connecting out to many nodes.

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned here, since this is a thread comparing Bitcoin to Ripple... isn't it a big drawback that Ripple must depend on UNLs in order to fend off sybil attacks? This UNL thing seems rather cumbersome and centralized.

You don't have to buy XRP for their system to work. It's not like Bitcoin where if price stagnates there's no growth.
OpenCoin have major VC backing and will use this to corral payment industry partners. Every bulk purchase of XRP will further stabilize (and increase) the price of XRP.

Ripple is disruptive, but it's not a confrontational solution like Bitcoin which aims to work against a system that is thought of by so many as "trusted". Re: "Ripple is our way to bootstrap to a better world" - Katz.

The tech developer/investor community in the US alone probably has many tens of billions of dollars in disposable cash just waiting to be pumped into new things at a moment's notice. So, why isn't more cash pouring into Bitcoin post-Bitcoin2013 conference? Hm... (maybe it is being pumped into companies, but I doubt it)

Do you think the Winklevii represent smart money owning 1% of all coins? All they can do is piggyback on nerds, and pump and dump. Who will be their greater fool? Joe?

If the tech investment community in the US doesn't even really embrace a technological solution, when will Joe? There are 500M Joe Regulars in The West alone, each with ~$100-$200 of loose cash that should go into Bitcoin, that's $75B. When 1BTC is worth $7500, we'll be on to something, and we'll have some real capital. Now how to make this happen...? I WANT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN! Don't you? (Will I now be criticized again for wanting to work hard towards a better world while also being able to put food on my family's table?).

Not to sound like a Bitcoin doomsayer, but:

If Ripple can provide both an excellent medium of exchange AND a store of value based on the stability of a global free market of firms in investment and payment spaces, what's the need for Bitcoin? Is it just for hiding money via Zerocoin?

Reading the Ripple forums, it looks as though they promised a giveaway by the end of May and that has yet to happen.  If this is the case, I think this reflects negatively on the Company who should be doing everything under their power right now to build trust. It shouldn't be difficult to distribute a pre-mined product to a small beta user base.  If they're unable to do it at this scale, who's to say they can do it on a much grander one?

Full disclosure, I am not part of the giveaway and will receive nothing whether they pay out or not.

Part of me thinks the zealots are doing just that while you aren't looking.

I don't trust ripple.

Well the conversation has reached a point where we can all start asking,

How can i give all my money to opencoin to fund their unregulated IPO?