However the forum should not be called "Scam coins", but "Untested / Unproved AltCoins".
That works.
I agree
Topic: Ripple or Bitcoin - page 34. (Read 34110 times)
That works.
I agree
However the forum should not be called "Scam coins", but "Untested / Unproved AltCoins".
That works.
The way Ripple allows a more decentralized exchange is by allowing trading using multiple inlet streams. To trade on MtGox there must be fiat sitting in MtGox's account. But to trade on Ripple, the fiat can be sitting in any of the gateways' bank accounts. Currently there are only a couple gateways, but already that is more than the single account which is MtGox. As Ripple grows, more gateways will be added, increasing the decentralization.
Erik's point appears to be that a gateway will hold the money backing its IOUs in a bank. And that's the optimistic scenario, when they're not doing fractional reserve banking. And of course, the bank that hold your money for them does practice fractional reserve banking.
For professional gateways, the argument is likely correct. But for informal networks (or maybe the hawala network), this need not be the case. One of the cool things about the rippling system is that it nets transactions for you and allows you to do the settlements of those netted transactions in cash with your direct connections in the trust graph.
It should stay right here. The lack of distributed exchanges is one of Bitcoin's biggest problems right now. Ripple provides Bitcoin with an excellent solution for that (and so does Open Transactions) and that deserves a lot of attention. Those who are worried about XRP should not be allowed to censor the discussion.
Again this is more misinformation. Ripple does not provide any decentralized exchange. The fiat half of any exchange must sit in a physical bank account somewhere. Whether this is gateways in ripple or exchanges in Bitcoin, in both cases the same vulnerabilities exist.
The way Ripple allows a more decentralized exchange is by allowing trading using multiple inlet streams. To trade on MtGox there must be fiat sitting in MtGox's account. But to trade on Ripple, the fiat can be sitting in any of the gateways' bank accounts. Currently there are only a couple gateways, but already that is more than the single account which is MtGox. As Ripple grows, more gateways will be added, increasing the decentralization.
As for the title of the thread, "Ripple or Bitcoin", why not both? To me it seems they can work together, Bitcoin for value storage and trustless transactions, Ripple for credit and fast/small transactions. The bitcoin protocol is limited to a certain number of transactions every ten minutes and coins take an hour to confirm, I see Ripple as a way of allowing the bitcoin ecosystem to swallow a much higher frequency of transactions.
Very much this, although perhaps it is time to finally add a ScamCoin subforum. No reason solidcoin, novacoin, ripplecoin and all the rest of the scammy alts should be associated with LTC for instance. All new coins start in ScamCoin, after two years if still around maybe they get moved to AltCoin status.
I don't normally like you posts, but this is actually a pretty damn Brilliant idea.
However the forum should not be called "Scam coins", but "Untested / Unproved AltCoins".
This should be moved to the Alt Coin section. No reason why Ripple conversations get to stay out of the ALT coin subforum.
Very much this, although perhaps it is time to finally add a ScamCoin subforum. No reason solidcoin, novacoin, ripplecoin and all the rest of the scammy alts should be associated with LTC for instance. All new coins start in ScamCoin, after two years if still around maybe they get moved to AltCoin status.
Ripple claims that the exchange process is decentralized because they're talking about the exchange of fiat IOU's for BTC, not fiat for BTC. You can set up a fiat IOU destributed exchange with Bitcoin as well. But Ripple has better marketing and branding so people seem to think it's some magic new phenomenon.
Indeed, especially for any value of people in the set {clueless noob; invested shill}.
Again this is more misinformation.
I'm not trying to spread misinformation. If you read my posts, you'll see that's the truth.
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Ripple does not provide any decentralized exchange. The fiat half of any exchange must sit in a physical bank account somewhere.
No, that's not true, it could be cash in someone's hand.
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Whether this is gateways in ripple or exchanges in Bitcoin, in both cases the same vulnerabilities exist.
Not for informal exchanges.
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Ripple claims that the exchange process is decentralized because they're talking about the exchange of fiat IOU's for BTC, not fiat for BTC. You can set up a fiat IOU destributed exchange with Bitcoin as well.
Of course that could happen, and I'd welcome it. Open Transactions could be an important part of that.
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But Ripple has better marketing and branding so people seem to think it's some magic new phenomenon.
Ripple doesn't just have better branding and marketing, partly as a result of its much-maligned funding and distribution model, it also has a working implementation, again as a result of that model.
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For those who want a decentralized IOU exchange, Ripple is great. A decentralized asset exchange, it is not.
That alone would be a major step forward, and very good news for Bitcoin.
It should stay right here. The lack of distributed exchanges is one of Bitcoin's biggest problems right now. Ripple provides Bitcoin with an excellent solution for that (and so does Open Transactions) and that deserves a lot of attention. Those who are worried about XRP should not be allowed to censor the discussion.
Again this is more misinformation. Ripple does not provide any decentralized exchange. The fiat half of any exchange must sit in a physical bank account somewhere. Whether this is gateways in ripple or exchanges in Bitcoin, in both cases the same vulnerabilities exist.
Ripple claims that the exchange process is decentralized because they're talking about the exchange of fiat IOU's for BTC, not fiat for BTC. You can set up a fiat IOU destributed exchange with Bitcoin as well. But Ripple has better marketing and branding so people seem to think it's some magic new phenomenon.
For those who want a decentralized IOU exchange, Ripple is great. A decentralized asset exchange, it is not.
It should stay right here. The lack of distributed exchanges is one of Bitcoin's biggest problems right now. Ripple provides Bitcoin with an excellent solution for that (and so does Open Transactions) and that deserves a lot of attention. Those who are worried about XRP should not be allowed to censor the discussion.
This should be moved to the Alt Coin section. No reason why Ripple conversations get to stay out of the ALT coin subforum.
this night some people sold 40k BTC in mtgox and the price fell to 120. Like 8% in hours. This is not a steadiness standard. BTC is very volatile when people do this, suggesting its not very well distributed.
Sigh.
Bitcoin's volatility has decreased on average over time, yet people keep focusing on the fact that "it is not yet extremely stable." Well, stability comes with time. A $5m dump on the market a year ago would've dropped it like 70%. Today it drops it 10%. Next year it'll drop it 2%.
If BTC market is 1B USD today, and a 4M USD selling decreases 10% of the value, it means that a small percentage of BTC is being traded. It suggests that the big majority is silently held by OpenCoin-like players. People who paid very cheap price for their big amount of BTC and defend private (own) interests.
I think when ripple is ubiquitous and XRP mostly distributed, opencoin will suffer a lot of pressure for transparency and predictability.
this night some people sold 40k BTC in mtgox and the price fell to 120. Like 8% in hours. This is not a steadiness standard. BTC is very volatile when people do this, suggesting its not very well distributed.
If various arguments about the centralization of Bitcoin bother you, then you're in luck, because it's a self-correcting process which has been improving since the genesis block.
What you are saying is: As largely used is a currency, more steady its value, I agree. XRP and BTC obey the same laws, except that in XRP case there is one known big fish - OpenCoin, its central bank. In BTC, USD, GBP cases there are big fishes. Soros could defeat the Bank of England once. All currencies have controllers, but they don't wanna screw their treasuries, they just want to make more money.
this night some people sold 40k BTC in mtgox and the price fell to 120. Like 8% in hours. This is not a steadiness standard. BTC is very volatile when people do this, suggesting its not very well distributed.
Sigh.
Bitcoin's volatility has decreased on average over time, yet people keep focusing on the fact that "it is not yet extremely stable." Well, stability comes with time. A $5m dump on the market a year ago would've dropped it like 70%. Today it drops it 10%. Next year it'll drop it 2%.
And Bitcoin has also become "more distributed" over time as well. Far more people have Bitcoin today than a year ago. And the portion of BTC holders who have greater than X BTC will always be declining. Similarly, exchange volume is growing increasingly decentralized over time. Two years ago, Gox held 80% of the market. A year ago, more like 70%. Today, it's maybe 50-60%.
If various arguments about the centralization of Bitcoin bother you, then you're in luck, because it's a self-correcting process which has been improving since the genesis block.
With OpenCoin, at least you have a known face to beat, and if they screw XRP quotes or trustworthiness, they will screw their own equity.
If OpenCoin messes around then a different iteration of Ripple could take off. There's an interesting balance of factors here.These folks running around claiming XRP is a scam designed to "destroy bitcoin" are misguided fools.
+1These folks running around claiming XRP is a scam designed to "destroy bitcoin" are misguided fools.
Actually they are running around claiming something else entirely, namely that XRP will crash. But what you're saying must be what they are really afraid of. In which case they aren't just fools, but liars too.
this night some people sold 40k BTC in mtgox and the price fell to 120. Like 8% in hours. This is not a steadiness standard. BTC is very volatile when people do this, suggesting its not very well distributed.
These folks running around claiming XRP is a scam designed to "destroy bitcoin" are misguided fools.
Actually they are running around claiming something else entirely, namely that XRP will crash. But what you're saying must be what they are really afraid of. In which case they aren't just fools, but liars too.
Agree that XRP still requires a lot of enhancements and real world tests to become a true competitor but, assuming that it resists to this, and is largely distributed, it will be an option.
And also, who can say how concentrated is bitcoin today? How is it distributed?
With OpenCoin, at least you have a known face to beat, and if they screw XRP quotes or trustworthiness, they will screw their own equity.
And also, who can say how concentrated is bitcoin today? How is it distributed?
With OpenCoin, at least you have a known face to beat, and if they screw XRP quotes or trustworthiness, they will screw their own equity.
if you can pay what you pay with BTC with XRP, then XRP will be a competitor for BTC.
Who the hell wants to hold a large XRP balance or receive payments in XRP when Ripple is closed source, there's no research showing it's consensus model is robust and secure, and when OpenCoin holds ~98% of all the currency? Even if Ripple was all open source this very moment, Bitcoin still has almost 5 years of teenaged Russian hackers beating on the block chain and peer to peer network, and Ripple has none. Plus all the academic research. And Ripple's security model depends on having a sizable number of validators who we can be reasonably assured do not collude. There simply aren't enough validators for that right now, nor do we have scientific evidence that there are sufficient incentives for such validators to appear (unlike bitcoin miners, validators are uncompensated).
For the forseeable future XRP is no competitor.
These folks running around claiming XRP is a scam designed to "destroy bitcoin" are misguided fools.
XRP will compete with bitcoin, wich is descentralized and opensource. OpenCoin is limited in the management of XRP in a way it doesnt turns into a bad choice when compared to bitcoin. Otherwise, people would use XRP just to pay for transactions made in fiat money via gateways, and use bitcoin as a digital currency via bitcoin client, bitpay and whatever will still come.
I disagree. The market for Bitcoin versus Ripple comprises different groups. Most Bitcoiners want to hold a bitcoin balance, and pay for everything in bitcoin.
Compare this with Ripple, where you want to make a payment to someone. You deposit fiat into a gateway, send the payment, and the recipient receives it in fiat from another gateway. Two different use-cases.
I think we agree. I was comparing XRPs an BTC, you are comparing the ripple network with BTC.
Thats what I was trying to differentiate. The ripple network is what you explained above, but if you can pay what you pay with BTC with XRP, then XRP will be a competitor for BTC.
XRP will compete with bitcoin, wich is descentralized and opensource. OpenCoin is limited in the management of XRP in a way it doesnt turns into a bad choice when compared to bitcoin. Otherwise, people would use XRP just to pay for transactions made in fiat money via gateways, and use bitcoin as a digital currency via bitcoin client, bitpay and whatever will still come.
I disagree. The market for Bitcoin versus Ripple comprises different groups. Most Bitcoiners want to hold a bitcoin balance, and pay for everything in bitcoin.
Compare this with Ripple, where you want to make a payment to someone. You deposit fiat into a gateway, send the payment, and the recipient receives it in fiat from another gateway. Two different use-cases.
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