Ripple or Bitcoin - page 36. | Bitcointalksearch.org

nameface

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Quote from: mobile4ever on June 01, 2013, 10:02:23 AM

To a bitcoin purist, ripple is unnecessary.

I highly doubt 99.99% of humanity will ever fit your definition of a "Bitcoin purist". However, I can't be sure because I have no idea what you mean.

Can Ripple help Bitcoin grow? This is what's important.

All of the theoretical solutions out there are nice, but what matters is the solutions as they are. Bitcoin and Ripple provide real (prototypical) solutions.

timeofmind

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Quote from: misterbigg on June 01, 2013, 09:20:17 AM

Note that OpenCoin can't force anyone to buy XRP.

Correct.

Quote from: misterbigg on June 01, 2013, 09:20:17 AM

The price is set purely through free market forces.

Incorrect. OpenCoin has complete control over the price by having complete control over the supply.

timeofmind

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Quote from: mmeijeri on June 01, 2013, 03:57:26 AM

Quote from: nameface on May 31, 2013, 04:22:42 PM

I agree it's taking a step backward in a pure technological sense. However, this step backward from Bitcoin is necessary to move everything forward.

It would only be a step backward if the IOU system was all there was, but it isn't, there is also XRP, which is a (small) step forward compared to BTC. More importantly, the IOU system combined with the distributed exchange is a major leap forward compared to Mt Gox and its competitors. So in effect Ripple is a huge step forward, and not a step backward.

I don't think you were following the conversation... We were not talking about the IOU system or XRP. We were talking about the need for UNLs and consensus, which make Ripple servers totally dependent on a configured list of trusted nodes to fend off sybil attacks. Since XRP is just a unit of quantity that is being tracked on this weakened transactional system, how could you possibly call it an improvement? In addition, they decided to use a centralized model for distribution of XRP. How is that a step forward? Ripple transactions are dependent on the very weaknesses that Bitcoin was designed to overcome and ripple distribution is completely contrary to the goals of Bitcoin.

SamS

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Amusingly, I received a link last night for free Ripples and the redemption page throws an error when you try to redeem...

SamS

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Quote from: misterbigg on June 01, 2013, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: N12 on June 01, 2013, 05:57:31 AM

...I believe they think that being valued over Bitcoin market cap is a fair price, or that they think they must maintain it to continue generating profits selling their coins.

Note that OpenCoin can't force anyone to buy XRP. The price is set purely through free market forces.

Except for the fact that OpenCoin currently controls the currency -- like a government -- and can more or less set prices...

misterbigg

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Quote from: mobile4ever on June 01, 2013, 10:02:23 AM

To a bitcoin purist, ripple is unnecessary.

To a bitcoin purist, MtGox is unnecessary. But practically speaking, it is not currently possible for the vast majority of people on the planet to totally exit the fiat money system. Until all bills and living expenses are denominated entirely in bitcoin, "purists" will be unable to avoid it.

mobile4ever

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Quote from: nameface on May 31, 2013, 04:22:42 PM

To me, Ripple's failure would have no impact on Bitcoin, and Ripple's success could mean a good chance for Bitcoin to grow.

To a bitcoin purist, ripple is unnecessary. Adding things to something that can be molded, via its open-source and decentralised nature, is a waste of effort.

Not to mention the new decentralized markets that are springing up. Everything is fine.

misterbigg

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Quote from: N12 on June 01, 2013, 05:57:31 AM

...I believe they think that being valued over Bitcoin market cap is a fair price, or that they think they must maintain it to continue generating profits selling their coins.

Note that OpenCoin can't force anyone to buy XRP. The price is set purely through free market forces.

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

OK, which may be a small step forward, though off-chain add-ons like OT could provide similar solutions for Bitcoin.

misterbigg

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Quote from: mmeijeri on June 01, 2013, 03:57:26 AM

there is also XRP, which is a (small) step forward compared to BTC.

We don't know that for sure - there's no peer reviewed study of the consensus algorithm.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: N12 on June 01, 2013, 05:57:31 AM

Because OpenCoin has no plans in monetary policy and likely spontaneously changes their plans based on where the price is and where they would like it to go, it is probably prone to bubbles, even more so than Bitcoin, where the block chain relentlessly distributes according to an algorithm, no matter what.

Wherein by "prone to bubbles" what you really mean is "OpenCoin are deliberately trying to inflate a bubble in the hopes they will profit off the ignorant Bitcoin user".

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: oakpacific on June 01, 2013, 06:01:23 AM

Quote from: N12 on June 01, 2013, 05:57:31 AM

It appears that as prices for Ripples rise (they are currently valued higher than Bitcoin's market cap), OpenCoin will reduce the rate of distribution instead of sticking to a plan. Back when they first began handing out in this forum, they sent 50k XRP. They reduced this slowly, and now they are giving out 1k XRP. So, I believe they think that being valued over Bitcoin market cap is a fair price, or that they think they must maintain it to continue generating profits selling their coins.

Because OpenCoin has no plans in monetary policy and likely spontaneously changes their plans based on where the price is and where they would like it to go, it is probably prone to bubbles, even more so than Bitcoin, where the block chain relentlessly distributes according to an algorithm, no matter what.

They set themselves up between a rock and a hard place, if they want to maintain the price, at this rate of distirbution it will take more than half a century to inject the 50 billion XRPs they promised into the market, if they go quicker..... Roll Eyes

Half a century sounds reasonable considering the scope of their ambition.

N12

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Quote from: oakpacific on June 01, 2013, 06:01:23 AM

They set themselves up between a rock and a hard place, if they want to maintain the price, at this rate of distirbution it will take more than half a century to inject the 50 billion XRPs they promised into the market, if they go quicker..... Roll Eyes

When I asked, they said they wanted to do distribute the 50 billion within 2 years. Obviously, they had a change of plans.

Lots of people are going to get hurt on this once it pops as they prolong it, and I do think this is on the verge of scam now in how intransparently and arbitrarily they issue XRPs.

oakpacific

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Quote from: N12 on June 01, 2013, 05:57:31 AM

It appears that as prices for Ripples rise (they are currently valued higher than Bitcoin's market cap), OpenCoin will reduce the rate of distribution instead of sticking to a plan. Back when they first began handing out in this forum, they sent 50k XRP. They reduced this slowly, and now they are giving out 1k XRP. So, I believe they think that being valued over Bitcoin market cap is a fair price, or that they think they must maintain it to continue generating profits selling their coins.

Because OpenCoin has no plans in monetary policy and likely spontaneously changes their plans based on where the price is and where they would like it to go, it is probably prone to bubbles, even more so than Bitcoin, where the block chain relentlessly distributes according to an algorithm, no matter what.

They set themselves up between a rock and a hard place, if they want to maintain the price, at this rate of distirbution it will take more than half a century to inject the 50 billion XRPs they promised into the market, if they go quicker..... Roll Eyes

N12

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Activity: 1610

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It appears that as prices for Ripples rise (they are currently valued higher than Bitcoin's market cap), OpenCoin will reduce the rate of distribution instead of sticking to a plan. Back when they first began handing out in this forum, they sent 50k XRP. They reduced this slowly, and now they are giving out 1k XRP. So, I believe they think that being valued over Bitcoin market cap is a fair price, or that they think they must maintain it to continue generating profits selling their coins.

Because OpenCoin has no plans in monetary policy and likely spontaneously changes their plans based on where the price is and where they would like it to go, it is probably prone to bubbles, even more so than Bitcoin, where the block chain relentlessly distributes according to an algorithm, no matter what.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: ivanc on May 31, 2013, 07:23:05 PM

By the way, if this thread was not enough to entertain you guys, please follow up on this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/devil-worshipers-cult-illuminati-bilderberg-group-trying-to-ban-bitcoin-208985

It is kinda funny how this thread has pretty much died the sad death of becoming a discussion among the promoters themselves. Sort of like this other one.

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

Quote from: nameface on May 31, 2013, 04:22:42 PM

I agree it's taking a step backward in a pure technological sense. However, this step backward from Bitcoin is necessary to move everything forward.

It would only be a step backward if the IOU system was all there was, but it isn't, there is also XRP, which is a (small) step forward compared to BTC. More importantly, the IOU system combined with the distributed exchange is a major leap forward compared to Mt Gox and its competitors. So in effect Ripple is a huge step forward, and not a step backward.

ivanc

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By the way, if this thread was not enough to entertain you guys, please follow up on this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/devil-worshipers-cult-illuminati-bilderberg-group-trying-to-ban-bitcoin-208985

ivanc

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on May 31, 2013, 04:22:02 PM

Quote from: ivanc on May 30, 2013, 06:17:23 PM

That's so "american". One sentence: "let's make this Bitcoin Ponzi scheme bigger so we can all get richer!". Next one: "Let's make the world a better place together! Let's fix what isn't broken!".
Mix the two together and you get a recipe for disaster.

Obviously you're a terrorist.

Thanks god I'm not muslim... oh wait, are atheists still considered as terrorists on the other side of the atlantic?

timeofmind

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Quote from: timeofmind on May 31, 2013, 07:08:39 PM

Quote from: nameface on May 31, 2013, 05:29:16 PM

The receiver of fiat IOUs needs the services of a gateway to receive fiat, and they must pay a fee. But it's the same with Bitcoin. "Competitive" BTC to fiat rates today provide poor value to the consumer.

If Ripple becomes the new platform for the "businesses that offers currency conversion", costs will be slashed for exchanges and gateways and rates will be much lower for everyone.

You could send your cousin in Mumbai rupees directly to their Ripple wallet paying virtually no fee. Of course, they'd have to pay a fee to get their rupee IUOs out of the system. But on the whole, the fees would be much lower than they are today.

Bitcoin can only work to supplant other currencies slowly over time. It will be a long process. Bitcoin = apples, Ripple = oranges imo.

Right. But there was no reason for Ripple to base its transaction system on UNLs and consensus. This transaction system is just inferior to Bitcoin. They could have easily used the Bitcoin transaction system (ie. hashcash/proof-of-work) to record all transactions in Ripple, but they chose not to... instead we have to rely on "trusted" nodes in order to fend off sybil attacks. If people find the Ripple gateway system to really be a benefit, I think it would make sense to build it on top of Bitcoin protocol. As far as ripples (ie. the coin)... that seems to be just another currency with an inferior transaction system.

I can see how this idea of allowing someone to pickup their money in their local currency, and lowering transaction fees could be favorable to people though; although, it depends. It just may not be enough of an advantage over sending someone Bitcoin, which they can then exchange for their local currency to catch on. We'll see.

Topic: Ripple or Bitcoin - page 36. (Read 34131 times)