@RogerVer lets make a deal. At least 60k, my BTU for your BTC. - page 32.

user27

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Quote from: Loaded on March 21, 2017, 02:23:25 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/60ozkh/rogerver_lets_make_a_deal_1_for_1_trade_at_least/

bitcoin-cli signmessage 19Mz2o9RDABT74SA9njZqMtJXKEzj2qUoH '@RogerVer lets make a deal, 1 for 1 trade. At least 60k, possibly up to 130k, my BTU for your BTC.'
H9ed6z5RgdThRxXXqePmtJbaK1pGvoy6e+aiwUPD6pkrJ6d6TBchOu5OQLEbgq/15YRjcOUC+kMrGVfszUXV5Wc=

Whoah, thats a shit ton of coins.

I'd be lucky if i could touch that many coins in my entire lifetime, lmao.

I don't think that Roger will take the offer, because personally I believe that bitcoin core will outvalue bitcoin unlimited after the hard fork. Simply because there are more nodes for BTC than BTU currently, however it could change.

Right now on Bitfinex there are BTU futures available. However they are only worth 0.25 right now.

Would be interesting to see what Roger comes up with.

jhansen858

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Quote from: Blazed on March 21, 2017, 11:14:13 PM

Problem is Roger will have a BU node to accept the payment and it is only a 50/50 chance it will be online when they trade. How will Roger verify the coins were sent?

Burnnnnnnnnnn

2586

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Just to gauge interest, would anyone want to to do a similar deal with me for 300 BTC/BTU? I get your 300 BTC, you get my 300 BTU. I don't think it's worth bothering until the BU hashrate gets above 50% (unless you want to make "does a fork happen" part of the bet), but I figure I may as well start asking around.

RHavar

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Quote from: 2586 on March 22, 2017, 12:09:54 AM

For the swap, you should be able to use the taint method so that the BTCs and BTUs get to their proper destinations:

Yeah, your method seems fine. Although since it's such a large amount of money, I'd also add something like a "<2years> CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY" that allows some escrow-agents to resolve the dispute if the two parties don't 2-of-2 sign before then.

You'd also probably want to do a coin-join style send to the escrow address -- just so the first sending party doesn't risk getting trolled and have their money stuck in limbo

2586

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Quote from: Loaded on March 21, 2017, 05:33:42 PM

Escrow wise, I would hope someone could come up with an atomic swap method.

I've been thinking about doing something similar, but on a much smaller scale.

For the swap, you should be able to use the taint method so that the BTCs and BTUs get to their proper destinations:

Before the fork, you each depsit 60k coins into a multisig address, for a total of 120k
After the fork happens, the escrow address will contain 120k BTC and 120k BTU
You obtain a properly split (non-replayable) BTC UTXO on the Core chain, and Roger obtains a properly split BTU UTXO on the BU chain
You send your BTC UTXO to the escrow address, and Roger does the same with his BTU UTXO (let's say they're 1 BTC/BTU each)
The escrow address now contains 120,001 BTC and 120,001 BTU
Create a multisig transaction that will send the original 120k BTC plus the 1 BTC TXO to an address you control, get it signed, and broadcast it to the Core network. This transaction will be unspendable on the BU chain, due to the 1 BTC TXO.
Create another multisig transaction that will send the original 120k BTU plus the 1 BTU TXO to an address Roger controls, get it signed, and broadcast it to the BU network. This transaction will be unspendable on the Core chain, due to the 1 BTU TXO.

muyuu

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Quote from: RHavar on March 21, 2017, 11:53:06 PM

Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 11:42:23 PM

Do you have any problem with me posting the terms of our bet on Reddit (once dooglus has accepted and we've made sure that the terms are unambiguous), in order to generate some publicity?

No problems, posting it on reddit is fine with me. Maybe one of the prediction sites can even turn this into a bet =)

I hope they do. Also dealing with the escrow of this thing just in case...

RHavar

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Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 11:42:23 PM

Do you have any problem with me posting the terms of our bet on Reddit (once dooglus has accepted and we've made sure that the terms are unambiguous), in order to generate some publicity?

No problems, posting it on reddit is fine with me. Maybe one of the prediction sites can even turn this into a bet =)

muyuu

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Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 11:42:23 PM

Let me think about whether I'd like to bet more that 1 BTC and I'll get back to you.

Do you have any problem with me posting the terms of our bet on Reddit (once dooglus has accepted and we've made sure that the terms are unambiguous), in order to generate some publicity?

1BTC

By the way, shouldn't be fixing some code right now? I'm confused. BUttnodes are crashing left and right.

hayek

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This is going to be a large thread.

Peter R

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Quote from: RHavar on March 21, 2017, 11:33:51 PM

Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 11:09:33 PM

Good point, if the fork happens just before the deadline then how about we wait up to 4 months for the minority chain to mine 2100 new blocks. If the minority chain doesn't mine 2100 blocks by then, we'll call it dead and I win the bet.

Regarding your term that if a fork happens, but BU reorgs so that the most-work chain no longer contains a block > 1 MB, I might be OK with that, but it's a bit unfair to me because what if we just get a random 1.1 MB block like we saw with bitcoin.com? I could see that happening again, and I don't think that should count as a fork. How about we define a "fork attempt" as occurring once the large block chain has at least 72 blocks built on top of it?

I am happy with Dooglus as escrow.

Excellent, sounds great to me. I'm ok with 72 blocks being considered a "fork attempt". I've PM'd a link to this conversation to Dooglus and will fund it when/if he posts an address. Want to do more than 1 BTC by any chance?

Let me think about whether I'd like to bet more that 1 BTC and I'll get back to you.

Do you have any problem with me posting the terms of our bet on Reddit (once dooglus has accepted and we've made sure that the terms are unambiguous), in order to generate some publicity?

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: andyatcrux on March 21, 2017, 11:36:11 PM

Quote from: nickhiggins123 on March 21, 2017, 11:28:33 PM

No way Roger goes through with this deal, he would lose any power held on the core chain

Well now that he has publicly agreed to it he would lose some of his credibility if he did not go through with it.

not really. easy for either side to say they didn't like the specifics. Kind of like pending sale of a house, you can
back out if the inspection didn't go well.

andyatcrux

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Quote from: nickhiggins123 on March 21, 2017, 11:28:33 PM

No way Roger goes through with this deal, he would lose any power held on the core chain

Well now that he has publicly agreed to it he would lose some of his credibility if he did not go through with it.

RHavar

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Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 11:09:33 PM

Good point, if the fork happens just before the deadline then how about we wait up to 4 months for the minority chain to mine 2100 new blocks. If the minority chain doesn't mine 2100 blocks by then, we'll call it dead and I win the bet.

Regarding your term that if a fork happens, but BU reorgs so that the most-work chain no longer contains a block > 1 MB, I might be OK with that, but it's a bit unfair to me because what if we just get a random 1.1 MB block like we saw with bitcoin.com? I could see that happening again, and I don't think that should count as a fork. How about we define a "fork attempt" as occurring once the large block chain has at least 72 blocks built on top of it?

I am happy with Dooglus as escrow.

Excellent, sounds great to me. I'm ok with 72 blocks being considered a "fork attempt". I've PM'd a link to this conversation to Dooglus and will fund it when/if he posts an address. Want to do more than 1 BTC by any chance?

nickhiggins123

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No way Roger goes through with this deal, he would lose any power held on the core chain

Holliday

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Quote from: Blazed on March 21, 2017, 11:14:13 PM

Problem is Roger will have a BU node to accept the payment and it is only a 50/50 chance it will be online when they trade. How will Roger verify the coins were sent?

Don't worry, I'm sure Ver's node is one of the "critical nodes".

Blazed

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Problem is Roger will have a BU node to accept the payment and it is only a 50/50 chance it will be online when they trade. How will Roger verify the coins were sent?

muyuu

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Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 09:23:10 PM

What I suspect will happen is that we'll eventually get a block larger than 1 MB in the blockchain and Core will adapt their codebase to permit its users track the most-work chain. In other words, there will likely be no split--just an anticlimactic network upgrade to larger blocks. In such a case, who wins the bet? Or is the bet only valid in the case where there is a persistent split?

Dream on.

Both your bluff and Ver's have just been called.

Peter R

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Quote from: RHavar on March 21, 2017, 10:52:57 PM

Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 10:12:08 PM

Alright: how about a small side bet for us little fish? I bet you 1 BTC that--should the most-work blockchain include a single block larger than 1 MB--that no minority chain will make it beyond 2100 blocks (~2 weeks and the length of a difficulty adjustment) without either a difficulty reset or a change in the proof-of-work algorithm. If I win, the 2 BTCs in escrow will be sent to me. If you win, the 2 BTCs on both chains will be sent to you. If nothing happens by December 31, 2017, we both get our 1 BTC back.

The terms are rather unfair to me (e.g. if the fork happens just before the deadline, then it's impossible for the minority chain to mine 2100 blocks) but I'll overlook that. As long as I also win if BU makes a failure of its fork (i.e. after some time miners realize the BTC chain is worth more, with lower difficulty -- so they switch back). In that circumstance by the end of the year BTC will be the fork with the most proof-of-work, even though at one time it was a minority.

Anyway, I'm happy with 1 BTC and will go as high as 100 BTC. May I suggest Dooglus as an escrow, but I'll take anyone of the standard escrows here.

Good point, if the fork happens just before the deadline then how about we wait up to 4 months for the minority chain to mine 2100 new blocks. If the minority chain doesn't mine 2100 blocks by then, we'll call it dead and I win the bet.

Regarding your term that if a fork happens, but BU reorgs so that the most-work chain no longer contains a block > 1 MB, I might be OK with that, but it's a bit unfair to me because what if we just get a random 1.1 MB block like we saw with bitcoin.com? I could see that happening again, and I don't think that should count as a fork. How about we define a "fork attempt" as occurring once the large block chain has at least 72 blocks built on top of it?

I am happy with Dooglus as escrow.

misterbigg

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Quote from: epiphy on March 21, 2017, 10:52:30 PM

Wouldn't it be more prudent to invest some of those risked coins to improve the bitcoin ecosystem?

He's already improved the bitcoin ecosystem by saving his coins instead of spending them.

RHavar

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Quote from: Peter R on March 21, 2017, 10:12:08 PM

Alright: how about a small side bet for us little fish? I bet you 1 BTC that--should the most-work blockchain include a single block larger than 1 MB--that no minority chain will make it beyond 2100 blocks (~2 weeks and the length of a difficulty adjustment) without either a difficulty reset or a change in the proof-of-work algorithm. If I win, the 2 BTCs in escrow will be sent to me. If you win, the 2 BTCs on both chains will be sent to you. If nothing happens by December 31, 2017, we both get our 1 BTC back.

The terms are rather unfair to me (e.g. if the fork happens just before the deadline, then it's impossible for the minority chain to mine 2100 blocks) but I'll overlook that. As long as I also win if BU makes a failure of its fork (i.e. after some time miners realize the BTC chain is worth more, with lower difficulty -- so they switch back). In that circumstance by the end of the year BTC will be the fork with the most proof-of-work, even though at one time it was a minority.

Anyway, I'm happy with 1 BTC and will go as high as 100 BTC. May I suggest Dooglus as an escrow, but I'll take anyone of the standard escrows here.

Topic: @RogerVer lets make a deal. At least 60k, my BTU for your BTC. - page 32. (Read 64851 times)