Author

Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 112. (Read 387552 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
August 03, 2014, 12:04:16 PM
Quote
On the island of Libertopia we buy real estate with Bitcoin, lattes with Cryptonite, and party supplies with Monero.   Cool

Where do you get your electricity?

How do you get there without roads
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
August 03, 2014, 09:58:32 AM
Quote
Furthermore Bitcoin is just too slow for these kinds of applications with 10 minute confirmation times which are
often much longer (up to 1 hour). For decentralized exchange or shopping, that latency is simply not viable.
Viacoin is blazingly fast, utilizing block targets of 24 seconds, it is 25 times faster than Bitcoin.

everybody know that is not true, you can see a transaction on the blockchain immediately, what takes time are confirmations, so latency is not a real problem. Its really just my opinion but I dont see viacoin taking off, neither ethereum, not while most people cant even fully grasp bitcoin...

Just to be clear: Nekomata was not quoting me in this instance. I agree strongly with his point about xn times and confirmations.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
August 03, 2014, 09:47:25 AM
Guys, what do you think about Cryptonite? Paper-wise, this coin is excellent for micro-transactions
full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 100
August 03, 2014, 06:18:08 AM
I am mining XCN.  I think the coin is probably temporary, definitely over-priced, but the tech is good.

I am starting to look at VIA because I hear it will be a treechain testbed, and because it intends to serve as a 2.0 platform with PoW.


Viacoin hires Peter Todd as Scientific Advisor

https://twitter.com/viacoin/status/494874526753513473?refsrc=email
dga
hero member
Activity: 737
Merit: 511
August 03, 2014, 06:00:14 AM
Analysis of state of the art "botnet mining software" system:

http://malware.dontneedcoffee.com/2014/07/sky-share-evolution-mining-botnet-system.html

Still no CryptoNote-support, only does Scrypt and Quark.


---> All good until now. Yeah, yeah I know there maybe some small, amateur botnets that mine XMR. But the accusations that the professional botnet mining scene is big involved in XMR/CN-mining is still wrong and FUD.

Upon observing a tan-colored sheep in a field, a tourist turns to his wife and excitedly exclaims:  "I told you there were no black sheep in Scottland!"
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1129
August 03, 2014, 03:47:55 AM

everybody know that is not true, you can see a transaction on the blockchain immediately, what takes time are confirmations, so latency is not a real problem. Its really just my opinion but I dont see viacoin taking off, neither ethereum, not while most people cant even fully grasp bitcoin...

Well, the transaction is just broadcast but not actually on the blockchain yet, right? Isn't that the whole issue? There are a whole other category of doublespend attacks possible with 0 conf transactions. Which is why almost every Bitcoin service I use has me waiting for one or two confirmations first. Which is horrible when you are waiting over an hour. Even the average time of 10-20 minutes for 1-2 confirmations is pretty long.

For some transactions like buying a coffee 0 confs are fine. But since most services deem 1 confirmation acceptable for almost all normal transactions(which I feel is the right balance between security and convenience) having that confirmation come in less than a range of seconds to an hour is far better imo.

24 seconds is quite fast. Not sure how that will work out. But at this point I think it's pretty clear that 1-2 minute confirmations are superior despite the hash that gets wasted on orphans. The point being that ease of use should be a priority over mining efficiency.
Agree .

Like many here , I have made many types of transactions in BTC and dozens of different altcoins on a daily basis, as well as mining,  for more than a year, and overall would say that 1-2 minutes is a good compromise.
legendary
Activity: 1473
Merit: 1086
August 03, 2014, 03:44:28 AM
The block headers are kept as a PoW record but all old transactions can be discarded.

I need my old transactions archived and verifiable, what do I do?

Keep using Bitcoin.  Or Monero, if you want privacy.

For everything else, there's Cryptonite.  That's why we're making so many of them.

And no, I don't have a problem with half of the 1.84 billion total being mined over the next 10 years.

The emission rate was revisited twice, and IMO they got it perfect for the intended use as the 'small bills and change' of the internet.

On the island of Libertopia we buy real estate with Bitcoin, lattes with Cryptonite, and party supplies with Monero.   Cool

I would love to live on that island !  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
August 03, 2014, 03:37:04 AM

everybody know that is not true, you can see a transaction on the blockchain immediately, what takes time are confirmations, so latency is not a real problem. Its really just my opinion but I dont see viacoin taking off, neither ethereum, not while most people cant even fully grasp bitcoin...

Well, the transaction is just broadcast but not actually on the blockchain yet, right? Isn't that the whole issue? There are a whole other category of doublespend attacks possible with 0 conf transactions. Which is why almost every Bitcoin service I use has me waiting for one or two confirmations first. Which is horrible when you are waiting over an hour. Even the average time of 10-20 minutes for 1-2 confirmations is pretty long.

For some transactions like buying a coffee 0 confs are fine. But since most services deem 1 confirmation acceptable for almost all normal transactions(which I feel is the right balance between security and convenience) having that confirmation come in less than a range of seconds to an hour is far better imo.

24 seconds is quite fast. Not sure how that will work out. But at this point I think it's pretty clear that 1-2 minute confirmations are superior despite the hash that gets wasted on orphans. The point being that ease of use should be a priority over mining efficiency.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
August 03, 2014, 02:35:36 AM

 If Peter Todd decides to leave or has a breakdown in relationship with the VIA team, that could spell disaster for the coin.

At this point the only relationship there seems to be is "they're paying me some money". Tongue

It is good though that they're attempting to put that ~$350,000 IPO money to some use though.

It's pretty amazing that people were willing to throw that much money at them though. Hopefully they put it to good use.
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
August 03, 2014, 01:43:32 AM
viacoin will fail
When you have a moment please tell us why. Without a rationale that just seems trollish.

I certainly don't mind if it does fail, but you have to give them credit for pushing the ball forward on tree chains (as well as putting open-ended contract protocols on a more secure, PoW, footing). That alone won't make it investable, but it sure is interesting.

People, don't get so defensive of the very extraordinary distinction of your betrothed that you can't admit some of the other girls have certain charms of their own. 


Seems like VIA is claiming to be what Bitcoin does not want to do. (Not what it can't do).

Anyways, it seems to be getting a reputation boost by hiring and associating with Peter Todd so I see Peter Todd as a major piece of the puzzle.  If Peter Todd decides to leave or has a breakdown in relationship with the VIA team, that could spell disaster for the coin.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
August 03, 2014, 01:15:51 AM
viacoin will fail
When you have a moment please tell us why. Without a rationale that just seems trollish.

I certainly don't mind if it does fail, but you have to give them credit for pushing the ball forward on tree chains (as well as putting open-ended contract protocols on a more secure, PoW, footing). That alone won't make it investable, but it sure is interesting.

People, don't get so defensive of the very extraordinary distinction of your betrothed that you can't admit some of the other girls have certain charms of their own. 
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1011
Monero Evangelist
August 02, 2014, 09:48:59 PM
Analysis of state of the art "botnet mining software" system:

http://malware.dontneedcoffee.com/2014/07/sky-share-evolution-mining-botnet-system.html

Still no CryptoNote-support, only does Scrypt and Quark.


---> All good until now. Yeah, yeah I know there maybe some small, amateur botnets that mine XMR. But the accusations that the professional botnet mining scene is big involved in XMR/CN-mining is still wrong and FUD.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
August 02, 2014, 08:00:20 PM
Quote
On the island of Libertopia we buy real estate with Bitcoin, lattes with Cryptonite, and party supplies with Monero.   Cool

Where do you get your electricity?

From the free market of course.  There's the turbine plant next to the LNG terminal.  And the the offshore wind generators.  Plus most buildings have solar panels.  Personally, I use an electrostatic dynamo left to me by my friend John.

Mine is hooked up to Ayn Rand spinning in her grave.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 02, 2014, 07:43:53 PM
Quote
On the island of Libertopia we buy real estate with Bitcoin, lattes with Cryptonite, and party supplies with Monero.   Cool

Where do you get your electricity?

From the free market of course.  There's the turbine plant next to the LNG terminal.  And the the offshore wind generators.  Plus most buildings have solar panels.  Personally, I use an electrostatic dynamo left to me by my friend John.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
August 02, 2014, 07:43:39 PM
But the government could require such checks for bitcoin, since the cashier has to connect to the internet anyway in order to accept a bitcoin payment.  
They can't actually do that, since either they are unsuccessful (much likely) or nobody would bother use this coin anymore, since its purpose would have been defeated (so they weren't able to control it, only to destroy it).
The stated purpose of bitcoin was to provide a method of internet payment that was fast cheap easy safe etc.. Some people thought that it was also a safe way to hide illegal payments from governments, and loved it for that perceived quality.  Those people (and presumably most readers of this thread) are now realizing that it never was.

A tainted-bitcoins database would only kill that use of bitcoin for good.  Cashiers would surely comply and check that database if it was automatic, and/or if they could be penalized for failure to do so (if only by having their own coins listed, and hence made worthless).  

Due to the mixing property of bitcoin transactions, black coins will slowly mix with white coins and the UTXO set will soon be filled with every shade of grey.  Even the "virgin" coinbase output in each new block would become "tainted" by the transaction fees from any grey coins included in that block.  Any attempt at blacklisting would then require drawing a line in the sand for how "grey" a coin could be before it should be refused.  This line in the sand would likely be different across users, merchants and countries.  

Markets would emerge that discount coins based on the coin's grey level.  For example, if X is the greyness (1 being black and 0 being white), the discount would likely be linear in X:

   effective BTC value = BTC value  * (1 - k*X)

where k is the discount factor.  And as soon as these markets are efficient, then users don't really need to care about how dark their coins are as long as the value the user sees is the value after discounting based on grayscale.  Wallets could even deal with this in an automatic fashion as it would present an arbitrage opportunity.  "Did someone send you bright white coins?  Well, just blacken them down to the threshold and earn some free BTC!"  The end result is effectively fungible money.  

People of course realize this and the blacklist becomes a joke (or more likely, would never happen in any meaningful way in the first place).
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
August 02, 2014, 07:26:41 PM
Quote
On the island of Libertopia we buy real estate with Bitcoin, lattes with Cryptonite, and party supplies with Monero.   Cool

Where do you get your electricity?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 02, 2014, 07:21:56 PM
I am starting to look at VIA because I hear it will be a treechain testbed, and because it intends to serve as a 2.0 platform with PoW.

Once again looking to Reddit indicates a bit of shitcoin-ness behind the hype. Quotes from Peter Todd, allegedly hired by them as his "Chief Scientist," etc.

Quote
Frankly I don't know much about Viacoin, so I can't comment yet. They simply asked me to do research on treechains and were willing to pay for it. My contract with them is such that all work will remain free of patents and be opensourced.

...

Same rate I charge any project for work done for the public good that'll be open-sourced, $50/hr.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2c9700/peter_todd_hired_by_viacoin_to_work_on_tree_chains/cjde4vt

Comparing the tone and content of that with the press release version and I find the gap a bit scary:

http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/31/viacoin-hires-peter-todd.html

Technology might be okay, I really have no idea, but trying a bit too hard to sell it for my tastes.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
August 02, 2014, 07:14:32 PM
The block headers are kept as a PoW record but all old transactions can be discarded.

I need my old transactions archived and verifiable, what do I do?

Keep using Bitcoin.  Or Monero, if you want privacy.

For everything else, there's Cryptonite.  That's why we're making so many of them.

And no, I don't have a problem with half of the 1.84 billion total being mined over the next 10 years.

The emission rate was revisited twice, and IMO they got it perfect for the intended use as the 'small bills and change' of the internet.

On the island of Libertopia we buy real estate with Bitcoin, lattes with Cryptonite, and party supplies with Monero.   Cool
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
August 02, 2014, 07:01:44 PM
I am mining XCN.  I think the coin is probably temporary, definitely over-priced, but the tech is good.

I am starting to look at VIA because I hear it will be a treechain testbed, and because it intends to serve as a 2.0 platform with PoW.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Bitmark Developer
August 02, 2014, 06:29:27 PM
The argument is that some will always archive the whole chain. But that is what you also get with SPV. You can verify the chain yourself (at least to some level of confidence) but without the full chain, and there are still some full nodes "somewhere" with the full chain (perhaps only in large data centers).

SPV adds an increment of trust which MBC avoids.

The experts seem not to think so, or at least are unconvinced. I'm interested in your (or others') independent analysis that disagrees, not claims from the developers own wiki and white paper.

(nullc = gmaxwell)

Quote
The ideas there aren't new ones— much more comprehensive things, with better and clearly stated security assumptions, have been proposed elsewhere... but short of some massive improvements in ZKP technology an system that super-linearly reduces the amount of data transferred to a node must reduce the security model.
If you find reduced security acceptable— bitcoin has SPV already, which has near optimal performance.
Things which are in between may well be interesting, but they need to be able to clearly express what their security model and tradeoffs are (e.g. if it's no better than or even worse than SPV, why bother?) and thats a place where this proposal was lacking considerably a few months ago.

(emphasis added)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2bp3vk/the_miniblockchain_scheme/cj86zhj


Quote
The developer working on this showed in in #bitcoin-wizards at one point to ask bitcoin people to write some code for their altcoin to take: http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizards/2014-06-12.html (search miniblockchain)
They got asked some fairly pointed and critical questions, and it didn't go especially well— this quote pretty much sums it up for me: "i am just getting paid to write the code."

(missing bit added)

Quote
Removal of change creates some enormous problems with non-deterministic behavior around reorg conditions... done in the obvious way it also creates things like transaction replay attacks or an inability to safely revise a transaction.
The fixes to close those issues end up making the 'without coins' transactions functionally similar to with-coins. I'd worked up a set of rules which I though were complete and sound a couple years ago, but got stuck on trying to produce a rigorous proof that the they were equally safe... though the exercise made me realize there was a lot more isomorphism between the approaches than I'd thought before.

(other comment added)
Jump to: