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Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 99. (Read 387491 times)

legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
August 11, 2014, 02:37:18 PM
No that's not right. On average every peer receives and transmits each transaction once. Unless you are some kind of supernode (i.e. not a home connection) you won't be getting anywhere near petabytes. On a home connection (sort of the opposite of a supernode) you will likely just receive the transaction once and not send any appreciable fraction of them to any of your peers because they will likely already have them by the time you do.

Yes there will be some inefficiency here, but not (even close to) 100x.

Right.. but that implies supernode centralization, does it not?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 11, 2014, 02:35:01 PM
Gavin says 7 TB, certainly not petabytes, and he says his home internet connection could theoretically handle 45k transactions per second (though currently monthly bandwidth limits would prevent this -- in the future who knows).

Scroll to the bottom:

https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/e20c3b5a1d4b97f79ac2


That's for unidirectional transactions only -- in reality, you're broadcasting tx to thousands of peers and receiving them from thousands of peers, and are constantly being hit by requests both to and from you. With retransmission and other P2P ineffiencies with many peers at that network speed is probably petabytes.

No that's not right. On average every peer receives and transmits each transaction once. Unless you are some kind of supernode (i.e. not a home connection) you won't be getting anywhere near petabytes. On a home connection (sort of the opposite of a supernode) you will likely just receive the transaction once and not send any appreciable fraction of them to any of your peers because they will likely already have them by the time you do.

Yes there will be some inefficiency here, but not (even close to) 100x.

legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
August 11, 2014, 02:34:00 PM
thank you for the explanation .. will cryptonote bandwidth be 1/1 on storage requirement increases per transaction over bitcoin?  (Bandwidth requirements = 10X bitcoins)?

CN coins will likely require about an order of magnitude more bandwidth than Bitcoin, yeah.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
August 11, 2014, 02:29:40 PM
Gavin says 7 TB, certainly not petabytes, and he says his home internet connection could theoretically handle 45k transactions per second (though currently monthly bandwidth limits would prevent this -- in the future who knows).

Scroll to the bottom:

https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/e20c3b5a1d4b97f79ac2


That's for unidirectional transmissions to you only -- in reality, you're broadcasting tx to thousands of peers and receiving them from thousands of peers, and are constantly being hit by requests both to and from you. With retransmission and other P2P ineffiencies with many peers at that network speed the bandwidth usage is probably in petabytes.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
August 11, 2014, 02:23:50 PM
You two really think that Gavin et al are ever incorporating any major features that are found in an alt in to their 8 billion dollar baby?

If it's not something that solves a direct threat or major problem with Bitcoin I would put my money on 'never'. Or at least not in the next 5-10 years.

Everyone always says it would be easy to for Bitcoin to do xyz, but in reality even the simplest things are bogged down in politics.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin's devs aren't doing a great job at what they set out to do: Develop a stable codebase. Competing in the market as a product isn't how I think Bitcoin is run right now. That could change of course, but its not likely to for a long time if ever.

Something interesting that's happening is that alternative Bitcoin implementations are popping up, from Conformal's btcd to Bits of Proof's enterprise Bitcoin server and so on. If there is a compelling feature and enough demand for it, and the Bitcoin developers are too narrow-minded/resolute/whatever, one of those alternative implementations will offer it. Even better - a lot of the seemingly "revolutionary" stuff being done in many altcoins can be implemented in an alternative client due to the flexibility of Bitcoin's pay-to-hash system, and existing mining pools can continue running the "regular" Bitcoin implementation and mine those transactions without even knowing about their cleverness.

There's nothing "narrow-minded/resolute/whatever" in being a bit conservative in Bitcoin development. It's not some unimportant altcoin whose failure will bother only a few, it's the core of cryptocoin technology. It's designed to last for a long, long time. If some feature in some altcoin stands the test a time for a year or two, then it should be considered wise to implement it in Bitcoin. IMHO this Gavin's Bloom filter improvement is mindless rush to improve the Bitcoin, it should be tested in some altcoin for some time before upgrading Bitcoin's blockchain processing. If no altcoin developer implements it first, Bitcoin developers should invent an altcoin just to test this feature.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
August 11, 2014, 02:00:52 PM
You two really think that Gavin et al are ever incorporating any major features that are found in an alt in to their 8 billion dollar baby?

If it's not something that solves a direct threat or major problem with Bitcoin I would put my money on 'never'. Or at least not in the next 5-10 years.

Everyone always says it would be easy to for Bitcoin to do xyz, but in reality even the simplest things are bogged down in politics.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin's devs aren't doing a great job at what they set out to do: Develop a stable codebase. Competing in the market as a product isn't how I think Bitcoin is run right now. That could change of course, but its not likely to for a long time if ever.

Something interesting that's happening is that alternative Bitcoin implementations are popping up, from Conformal's btcd to Bits of Proof's enterprise Bitcoin server and so on. If there is a compelling feature and enough demand for it, and the Bitcoin developers are too narrow-minded/resolute/whatever, one of those alternative implementations will offer it. Even better - a lot of the seemingly "revolutionary" stuff being done in many altcoins can be implemented in an alternative client due to the flexibility of Bitcoin's pay-to-hash system, and existing mining pools can continue running the "regular" Bitcoin implementation and mine those transactions without even knowing about their cleverness.

That's pretty interesting. I hadn't seen those alternative implementations before.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
August 11, 2014, 01:58:00 PM
Simply, any coins are are Bitcoin forks, will fail. Anything noteworthy on an altcoin, like mini-blockchain, Bitcoin can/may incorporate in the future, leaving said altcoin in the dust.

Seconded - 99.9% of the "features" out there can be incorporated into Bitcoin's codebase in a heartbeat.

Stealth addresses from the genesis block on (an important privacy aspect) are one of the few things they can't do, not without a roll-over to a new genesis block with all outputs being reissued to stealth addresses computed from existing privkeys (read: practically impossible).

For everything else, there's MasterCard Bitcoin.

You two really think that Gavin et al are ever incorporating any major features that are found in an alt in to their 8 billion dollar baby?

If it's not something that solves a direct threat or major problem with Bitcoin I would put my money on 'never'. Or at least not in the next 5-10 years.

Everyone always says it would be easy to for Bitcoin to do xyz, but in reality even the simplest things are bogged down in politics.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin's devs aren't doing a great job at what they set out to do: Develop a stable codebase. Competing in the market as a product isn't how I think Bitcoin is run right now. That could change of course, but its not likely to for a long time if ever.

Yes he might, there was recently a thread on the Bitcoin Discussion board about this. Bitcoin would incorporate features that are noteworthy to its cause in the future(so no anonymous features, but mini-blockchain would def be on the list)

Given Satoshi's original writings on Bitcoin you would think that anonymity would be considered noteworthy to Bitcoin's cause. Sad

No, Bitcoin is being pushed as a very transparent, open system,. Privacy features wont be added to the bitcoin core, its all 3rd party(like darkwallet, mixing/coinjoin sites/services, stealth addresses), which sucks because as we've seen, there are A Lot of scammers in the bitcoin world and the owners of darkwallet and many mixing services for bitcoin could be/are corrupted as well.
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
August 11, 2014, 01:38:35 PM
You two really think that Gavin et al are ever incorporating any major features that are found in an alt in to their 8 billion dollar baby?

If it's not something that solves a direct threat or major problem with Bitcoin I would put my money on 'never'. Or at least not in the next 5-10 years.

Everyone always says it would be easy to for Bitcoin to do xyz, but in reality even the simplest things are bogged down in politics.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin's devs aren't doing a great job at what they set out to do: Develop a stable codebase. Competing in the market as a product isn't how I think Bitcoin is run right now. That could change of course, but its not likely to for a long time if ever.

Something interesting that's happening is that alternative Bitcoin implementations are popping up, from Conformal's btcd to Bits of Proof's enterprise Bitcoin server and so on. If there is a compelling feature and enough demand for it, and the Bitcoin developers are too narrow-minded/resolute/whatever, one of those alternative implementations will offer it. Even better - a lot of the seemingly "revolutionary" stuff being done in many altcoins can be implemented in an alternative client due to the flexibility of Bitcoin's pay-to-hash system, and existing mining pools can continue running the "regular" Bitcoin implementation and mine those transactions without even knowing about their cleverness.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 11, 2014, 01:34:44 PM
I think it's a valid point but compared to something like mining centralization it's relatively minor. It's much easier to have thousands of full nodes all over the world running on VPSs and enthusiast machines than to actually have a healthy distribution of miners.

I know you didn't ask about miners but even having 1000 people running full nodes that enable people to use thin clients is still pretty good while I see mining as the major bottleneck that causes the most centralisation. Much more than lack of node distribution I think.

Having a million nodes would be good too though. A million people running full nodes solo mining on their cell phones would be pretty decentalised. Smiley

There are problems with both. Mining at least, has some incentive. There is currently zero incentive to run a node at all, and the number of nodes has been dropping even as usage has increased.

The best answer I've heard for why anyone should run a node at all is that businesses such as Coinbase or Bitpay will want to support the network since their business depends so heavily on it. This is still relying on questionable economics, but even if viable, still sounds pretty centralized to me.

The two ideas I've seen to fix this are:

1. Requiring that people run a node in order to mine (and ensuring that at least part of mining remains decentralized). That could possibly work, but I haven't seen anything approaching a solid proposal.

2. Some sort of proof-of-bandwidth where you are directly rewarded for running a node. This is even less well developed than 1.


donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
August 11, 2014, 01:31:32 PM
I do have a question about this.  (I'm very very simpleton in crypto terms - so please don't eat me)

I understand in theory the blockchain shouldn't be an issue.  Even cryptonote (I was reading about how the blockchain when it grew to BTC size would be 10X as big as BTC).  But as a consumer downloading a 20GB database is a fairly big deal with my internet connection.  (I understand I can use litewallets that sync with other servers)

But isn't the blockchain size fairly relevant to keeping decentralization in the sense that bitcoin was originally invented - to be duplicated across hundreds of thousands of consumer machines?  Even at 20GB - with my internet connection I really don't want to download the entire blockchain ...

Yes - as it stands it's definitely too large for consumer machines. The thing is, even something like mini-blockchain is only a temporary fix, as any cryptocurrency that scales up to meet massive global demand will find that home Internet connections (even in 5-10 years time) will simply not have the low-latency and speed required to maintain a full node. I remain unconvinced that there exists a better solution for "Visa/Mastercard scale" than off-chain transactions that are settled back on the main chain on-demand or periodically. A company like PayPal or Google could ostensibly operate something like this, although it's not inconceivable for Visa or Mastercard themselves to provide this.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
August 11, 2014, 01:30:46 PM
Simply, any coins are are Bitcoin forks, will fail. Anything noteworthy on an altcoin, like mini-blockchain, Bitcoin can/may incorporate in the future, leaving said altcoin in the dust.

Seconded - 99.9% of the "features" out there can be incorporated into Bitcoin's codebase in a heartbeat.

Stealth addresses from the genesis block on (an important privacy aspect) are one of the few things they can't do, not without a roll-over to a new genesis block with all outputs being reissued to stealth addresses computed from existing privkeys (read: practically impossible).

For everything else, there's MasterCard Bitcoin.

You two really think that Gavin et al are ever incorporating any major features that are found in an alt in to their 8 billion dollar baby?

If it's not something that solves a direct threat or major problem with Bitcoin I would put my money on 'never'. Or at least not in the next 5-10 years.

Everyone always says it would be easy to for Bitcoin to do xyz, but in reality even the simplest things are bogged down in politics.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin's devs aren't doing a great job at what they set out to do: Develop a stable codebase. Competing in the market as a product isn't how I think Bitcoin is run right now. That could change of course, but its not likely to for a long time if ever.

Yes he might, there was recently a thread on the Bitcoin Discussion board about this. Bitcoin would incorporate features that are noteworthy to its cause in the future(so no anonymous features, but mini-blockchain would def be on the list)

Given Satoshi's original writings on Bitcoin you would think that anonymity would be considered noteworthy to Bitcoin's cause. Sad
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
August 11, 2014, 01:26:23 PM
Simply, any coins are are Bitcoin forks, will fail. Anything noteworthy on an altcoin, like mini-blockchain, Bitcoin can/may incorporate in the future, leaving said altcoin in the dust.

Seconded - 99.9% of the "features" out there can be incorporated into Bitcoin's codebase in a heartbeat.

Stealth addresses from the genesis block on (an important privacy aspect) are one of the few things they can't do, not without a roll-over to a new genesis block with all outputs being reissued to stealth addresses computed from existing privkeys (read: practically impossible).

For everything else, there's MasterCard Bitcoin.

You two really think that Gavin et al are ever incorporating any major features that are found in an alt in to their 8 billion dollar baby?

If it's not something that solves a direct threat or major problem with Bitcoin I would put my money on 'never'. Or at least not in the next 5-10 years.

Everyone always says it would be easy to for Bitcoin to do xyz, but in reality even the simplest things are bogged down in politics.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin's devs aren't doing a great job at what they set out to do: Develop a stable codebase. Competing in the market as a product isn't how I think Bitcoin is run right now. That could change of course, but its not likely to for a long time if ever.

Yes he might, there was a thread on the Bitcoin Discussion board about this. Bitcoin would incorporate features that are noteworthy to its cause in the future(so no anonymous features, but mini-blockchain would def be on the list)
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 11, 2014, 01:22:24 PM
I do have a question about this.  (I'm very very simpleton in crypto terms - so please don't eat me)

I understand in theory the blockchain shouldn't be an issue.  Even cryptonote (I was reading about how the blockchain when it grew to BTC size would be 10X as big as BTC).  But as a consumer downloading a 20GB database is a fairly big deal with my internet connection.  (I understand I can use litewallets that sync with other servers)

But isn't the blockchain size fairly relevant to keeping decentralization in the sense that bitcoin was originally invented - to be duplicated across hundreds of thousands of consumer machines?  Even at 20GB - with my internet connection I really don't want to download the entire blockchain ...

To even host a full node in a few years will likely consume terabytes to petabytes of data in a month -- this goes for Bitcoin, let alone any of the alts. If you can provide this bandwidth, you can be a full node. As it stands, without running dedicated hosts on corporate connections, most people will never be able to run full nodes, regardless of even their storage space. The real issue restricting centralization is bandwidth, and I doubt this will ever be solved, because you need all the block and tx data that is shipped out across the network. Gavin's latest proposal is a way to optimize it to perhaps 20-50% less bandwidth usage (aside from making syncing much more rapid), but the bandwidth issue still exists and is severe.

So, basically, the idea of totally decentralized full nodes on any cryptocurrency that is even marginally popular is a moot point: it's never going to be the case that ever household in the US is sitting around running a Bitcoin full node because of the bandwidth usage. Perhaps there are ways to form miniature consensus networks on top of the Bitcoin network to address this, but I'm not exactly sure how.

Gavin says 7 TB, certainly not petabytes, and he says his home internet connection could theoretically handle 45k transactions per second (though currently monthly bandwidth limits would prevent this -- in the future who knows).

Scroll to the bottom:

https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/e20c3b5a1d4b97f79ac2
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
August 11, 2014, 01:16:52 PM
It got really quiet in this thread. Did I say something sufficiently offensive, shocking, or motivational?  Embarrassed

Here's a genuine Altcon Observation to discuss:

XCN successfully moved to pruned mode, and its price spiked up ~27% from the deep support at 0.00001375.

XCN cracks two hard nuts at once.  Mini-blockchain is ultimate prunability (so a full node may run on your phone).  And withdrawal limits on the account tree enable non-malleable zero-confirmation transactions.

Like E=MC^2, scarcely two dozen people in the world grasp the magnitude of this technology's implications.   Cool

The shilling must end. This is worse than the HashFast thread, where you enticed people into losing millions of dollars. Tongue

Perhaps we should refute those claims specifically. The posters here may interested to hear why XCN is not a major advance and a novel solution (I realise it cannot be , because otherwise there would be more buying interest in the XCN market) to blockchain memory and bloat issues.

There must be a number of other alts addressing those issues more successfully (without the shill peddlers)

Well from our discussions earlier in the thread a lot of people have come to the conclusion that blockchain bloat just isn't that much of an issue. Or at least in won't be in the future when a blockchain reaches sizes we consider 'bloated' now.

I do have a question about this.  (I'm very very simpleton in crypto terms - so please don't eat me)

I understand in theory the blockchain shouldn't be an issue.  Even cryptonote (I was reading about how the blockchain when it grew to BTC size would be 10X as big as BTC).  But as a consumer downloading a 20GB database is a fairly big deal with my internet connection.  (I understand I can use litewallets that sync with other servers)

But isn't the blockchain size fairly relevant to keeping decentralization in the sense that bitcoin was originally invented - to be duplicated across hundreds of thousands of consumer machines?  Even at 20GB - with my internet connection I really don't want to download the entire blockchain ...

I think it's a valid point but compared to something like mining centralization it's relatively minor. It's much easier to have thousands of full nodes all over the world running on VPSs and enthusiast machines than to actually have a healthy distribution of miners.

I know you didn't ask about miners but even having 1000 people running full nodes that enable people to use thin clients is still pretty good while I see mining as the major bottleneck that causes the most centralisation. Much more than lack of node distribution I think.

Having a million nodes would be good too though. A million people running full nodes solo mining on their cell phones would be pretty decentalised. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1256
Merit: 1009
August 11, 2014, 01:14:24 PM
I do have a question about this.  (I'm very very simpleton in crypto terms - so please don't eat me)

I understand in theory the blockchain shouldn't be an issue.  Even cryptonote (I was reading about how the blockchain when it grew to BTC size would be 10X as big as BTC).  But as a consumer downloading a 20GB database is a fairly big deal with my internet connection.  (I understand I can use litewallets that sync with other servers)

But isn't the blockchain size fairly relevant to keeping decentralization in the sense that bitcoin was originally invented - to be duplicated across hundreds of thousands of consumer machines?  Even at 20GB - with my internet connection I really don't want to download the entire blockchain ...

To even host a full node in a few years will likely consume terabytes to petabytes of data in a month -- this goes for Bitcoin, let alone any of the alts. If you can provide this bandwidth, you can be a full node. As it stands, without running dedicated hosts on corporate connections, most people will never be able to run full nodes, regardless of even their storage space. The real issue restricting centralization is bandwidth, and I doubt this will ever be solved, because you need all the block and tx data that is shipped out across the network. Gavin's latest proposal is a way to optimize it to perhaps 20-50% less bandwidth usage (aside from making syncing much more rapid), but the bandwidth issue still exists and is severe.

So, basically, the idea of totally decentralized full nodes on any cryptocurrency that is even marginally popular is a moot point: it's never going to be the case that ever household in the US is sitting around running a Bitcoin full node because of the bandwidth usage. Perhaps there are ways to form miniature consensus networks on top of the Bitcoin network to address this, but I'm not exactly sure how.

thank you for the explanation .. will cryptonote bandwidth be 1/1 on storage requirement increases per transaction over bitcoin?  (Bandwidth requirements = 10X bitcoins)?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 11, 2014, 01:12:58 PM
But isn't the blockchain size fairly relevant to keeping decentralization in the sense that bitcoin was originally invented - to be duplicated across hundreds of thousands of consumer machines?  Even at 20GB - with my internet connection I really don't want to download the entire blockchain ...

In the case where hundreds of thousands of people are wanting a copy of a 20 GB block chain we might imagine many possibilities such as:

1. Hundreds of thousands of people have faster internet connections than you, so they download the blockchain, even if you don't.
2. The blockchain comes preloaded on your computer.
3. You buy a 32 GB USB flash drive with the block chain on it. Current retail price for a 32 GB USB drive is $15-20.

I''m sure there others.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
August 11, 2014, 01:09:08 PM
I do have a question about this.  (I'm very very simpleton in crypto terms - so please don't eat me)

I understand in theory the blockchain shouldn't be an issue.  Even cryptonote (I was reading about how the blockchain when it grew to BTC size would be 10X as big as BTC).  But as a consumer downloading a 20GB database is a fairly big deal with my internet connection.  (I understand I can use litewallets that sync with other servers)

But isn't the blockchain size fairly relevant to keeping decentralization in the sense that bitcoin was originally invented - to be duplicated across hundreds of thousands of consumer machines?  Even at 20GB - with my internet connection I really don't want to download the entire blockchain ...

To even host a full node in a few years will likely consume terabytes to petabytes of data in a month -- this goes for Bitcoin, let alone any of the alts. If you can provide this bandwidth, you can be a full node. As it stands, without running dedicated hosts on corporate connections, most people will never be able to run full nodes, regardless of even their storage space. The real issue restricting centralization is bandwidth, and I doubt this will ever be solved, because you need all the block and tx data that is shipped out across the network. Gavin's latest proposal is a way to optimize it to perhaps 20-50% less bandwidth usage (aside from making syncing much more rapid), but the bandwidth issue still exists and is severe.

So, basically, the idea of totally decentralized full nodes on any cryptocurrency that is even marginally popular is a moot point: it's never going to be the case that ever household in the US is sitting around running a Bitcoin full node because of the bandwidth usage. Perhaps there are ways to form miniature consensus networks on top of the Bitcoin network to address this, but I'm not exactly sure how.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
August 11, 2014, 01:02:31 PM
Seconded - 99.9% of the "features" [ of new bitcoin-like altcoins ] out there can be incorporated into Bitcoin's codebase in a heartbeat.
One feature that cannot be incorporated into Bitcoin is the brand new blockchain (i.e. the "radical fork" that starts with a new genesis block).  Also, it would be politically impossible to change the maximum number of Bitcoins (and hence a change in the block reward schedule).
legendary
Activity: 1256
Merit: 1009
August 11, 2014, 12:51:03 PM
It got really quiet in this thread. Did I say something sufficiently offensive, shocking, or motivational?  Embarrassed

Here's a genuine Altcon Observation to discuss:

XCN successfully moved to pruned mode, and its price spiked up ~27% from the deep support at 0.00001375.

XCN cracks two hard nuts at once.  Mini-blockchain is ultimate prunability (so a full node may run on your phone).  And withdrawal limits on the account tree enable non-malleable zero-confirmation transactions.

Like E=MC^2, scarcely two dozen people in the world grasp the magnitude of this technology's implications.   Cool

The shilling must end. This is worse than the HashFast thread, where you enticed people into losing millions of dollars. Tongue

Perhaps we should refute those claims specifically. The posters here may interested to hear why XCN is not a major advance and a novel solution (I realise it cannot be , because otherwise there would be more buying interest in the XCN market) to blockchain memory and bloat issues.

There must be a number of other alts addressing those issues more successfully (without the shill peddlers)

Well from our discussions earlier in the thread a lot of people have come to the conclusion that blockchain bloat just isn't that much of an issue. Or at least in won't be in the future when a blockchain reaches sizes we consider 'bloated' now.

I do have a question about this.  (I'm very very simpleton in crypto terms - so please don't eat me)

I understand in theory the blockchain shouldn't be an issue.  Even cryptonote (I was reading about how the blockchain when it grew to BTC size would be 10X as big as BTC).  But as a consumer downloading a 20GB database is a fairly big deal with my internet connection.  (I understand I can use litewallets that sync with other servers)

But isn't the blockchain size fairly relevant to keeping decentralization in the sense that bitcoin was originally invented - to be duplicated across hundreds of thousands of consumer machines?  Even at 20GB - with my internet connection I really don't want to download the entire blockchain ...
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
August 11, 2014, 12:46:06 PM
It got really quiet in this thread. Did I say something sufficiently offensive, shocking, or motivational?  Embarrassed

Here's a genuine Altcon Observation to discuss:

XCN successfully moved to pruned mode, and its price spiked up ~27% from the deep support at 0.00001375.

XCN cracks two hard nuts at once.  Mini-blockchain is ultimate prunability (so a full node may run on your phone).  And withdrawal limits on the account tree enable non-malleable zero-confirmation transactions.

Like E=MC^2, scarcely two dozen people in the world grasp the magnitude of this technology's implications.   Cool

The shilling must end. This is worse than the HashFast thread, where you enticed people into losing millions of dollars. Tongue

Perhaps we should refute those claims specifically. The posters here may interested to hear why XCN is not a major advance and a novel solution (I realise it cannot be , because otherwise there would be more buying interest in the XCN market) to blockchain memory and bloat issues.

There must be a number of other alts addressing those issues more successfully (without the shill peddlers)

Well from our discussions earlier in the thread a lot of people have come to the conclusion that blockchain bloat just isn't that much of an issue. Or at least in won't be in the future when a blockchain reaches sizes we consider 'bloated' now.
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