Topic: rpietila public diary -- Episode II - page 4. (Read 40823 times)

rpietila, that 188mBTC would be helpful for someone in northern Cebu who was wiped out I wrote about to thoughtfan, but didn't yet have the confirmed info for which name to send to. Will try to call them today.

thoughtfan, let me know if you decide to proceed and would like some photo evidence of the repairs made. If not, perhaps there will be others interested. Otherwise I will have to give, since they will be disappointed since I already asked them.

You have their numbers, you can call if you want. I am confirming now what is real situation of the person who may or may not receive support from another person. Will PM you once I confirm what is the definitive situation. Had been trying to contact that person past days, yet I always ended up calling late at night and they were asleep. I am so hectically busy.

Please don't feel obligated. Yet I am sure you will get a big thanks for them if you do. I am confident others will also want to help. And I can probably handle it if you don't. Not as rich as I was for the moment.

I would endeavor to ask each recipient you chose to take before and after photos if that will make you feel more certain about the efficacy. And perhaps a photo with entire clan and sack(s) of rice purchased. As for nutrients in addition to the carbohydrates, there are vegetables and root crops that grow wild as well as planted and is best consumed fresh. The rice is the major need in addition to the shelter from the rain.

When I say "christian" what this imparts is that they have a good attitude and a desire to achieve and be responsible. Filipinos are never christians in the way that westerners are, e.g. they would never kill for the church (Inquisition, Puritan burnings at-stake, etc), although I wouldn't put it past some of the fanatical non-christian (reject Jesus as a Son) cults such as Iglesia Ng Christo and tell their members that their human founder was not human but rather an angel and very obsessed, glassy-eyed members. They morph everything to their primary tribal values which are family and clan. They do believe God will protect them and thus they shouldn't fret over things. I can mention global crisis to them, and they say "I've always been crisis". They tend to brush aside all negative thoughts and focus on the positive. When I say a very strong Christian, it means you won't be able to tempt them to try drugs, disrespect their parents, homosexual sex or other aberrations from a normal patriarchal family unit. So it is really meaning they are very attuned to the historically successful definition of the family unit. As a westerner, you may or may not view gay marriage compassionately, and this is not comment on that. It is just a comment on what works and doesn't work in this old world agrarian culture. That same filipina who wouldn't dare do homosexuality, would also have a best friend who is a male gay. Filipinos are very accepting of others. Of course this culture is under attack in the big cities and the media. Pornography has spread in the universities on the cell phones. The middle class in the Philippines is well integrated into the western media.

In short, an atheist westerner can most often be an upstanding person. An atheist filipino is most often someone who has lost their way, e.g. drugs, crime, etc.. It is not a comment on atheism. It is a reflection of the reality of the culture here. Now this changes a lot in the big city of Manila. I am referring to the hinterlands, where this typhoon hit.

I do sympathize with your valid feeling about the animosity I have created. I am treating my opinion about BTC as orthogonal to the utility of BTC in the present. Phenomena are not B&W and BTC can be both useful while also being arguably other things too. The future will resolve those opinions. Also it might be some solace to know that I will shut up out of necessity that a talking programmer isn't programming. Your opinion of BTC has enabled you to have more wealth as measured in dollars than I do, thus being able to give where I wanted to, is sign of my temporary "failure". I have humbly subsumed my ego for the present. My pride wasn't going to help these people.

I will assure you this in contrast to the acerbic tone I guess results from the back-and-forth when someone shakes the Bitcoin applecart. Anything I do w.r.t. to Bitcoin will be for the better of humanity. If that is ever not the case, please call me in out in public and drag my name through the mud. My opinion is sincere, whether it is correct or not is to be seen. I am not incapable of being cordial. The situation will dictate the level of stress, urgency, mutual (mis-)understandings, etc..

As for the very desperate, I gave a (to remain anonymous) suggested recipient to rpietila who was not hit by the typhoon, yet is 8 months pregnant, surviving off of vegetables planted herself (not always money for rice), and supporting and educating her 10 younger siblings alone, as her father died and her mother took off with another man. This lady may have a higher IQ than me (maybe I was just tired from travel/sick the one time I met her yet I couldn't keep up her witty topics, more focused in literature) and she graduated last year from university as a teacher with honors. She just passed the board exam, so she will be able to work after she delivers and the newborn is old enough to be watched by a neighbor. I was also so proud of her to not abort. A foreigner bf who had been supporting her college left her hanging (with 6 months remaining so she almost had to quit school) which adds to my desire to help her so she won't think all foreigners are like that. I know with complete confidence any funds she receives will go to food to keep the situation stable until I am rich enough to rescue her entirely until she can get back on her feet. Note she and I are not compatible as anything more than friends (I'm analytical like quiet and she loves Shakespeare and noisy classroom interaction), but how can I deny her great attitude to take over as the parent of her cute (and smart) siblings.

I can promise you I haven't given you any suggested recipients who will get drunk or otherwise waste the money and have "middle finger" type attitudes. I've been over here more or less since 1991, so I can read their attitudes very well. I know immediately the types who are irresponsible in that way of handing it to a brother to buy Red Horse.

There is really not much danger of the unscrupulous taking advantage. Filipinas are extremely wise to that. They are exposed to such threats from birth. When money is sent by LBC (or the other pawnshop money transfer outfit), then they will not release the money except to the person who has a photo id matching the name. Also they will not release without the control #, which I instructed should only be sent to the recipient via SMS message. Also you need to let me know if you want the recipients to know who you are or even your name. I was going to get to that if you sent. It is your choice.

Most (some) filipinas (the females especially) are very wise how they allocate money when they have been facing frequent hardship. Of course there are those (most because it is in their culture) who have a hole in their pocket and want to always enjoy their money. But this is the case for those who are not facing existential hardships.

Also I have learned that people who live in congested squatter communities are much more prone to waste money. This is because they don't really have to fear existential threats because the group is all around them. And they identify themselves with the group and thus it is one continuous drunken party in these squalor communities. Whereas the names I have given you are the conservative types who live in the hinterland farms and small villages. These are the ones who grow up with good values and a desire to achieve. You will find the best scholars in the Philippines often come from the poor farming families.

The ones I have given you have fallen into hardship, usually it is because of a loss of the father. That is the most frequent cause. And the typhoon exacerbated it. Or just poverty because of uneducated parents and living far from the big city. I gave you one (N.J.) where her family is intact but the father is very old and the family was wiped out by the typhoon.

When I said search for more desperate, I mean I had some at least 2 contacts last year who live where the eye passed along the coast of Samar. I hadn't tried to contact them yet, because frankly I've been overloaded with tasks.

P.S. rpietila knows of me for several years. We used to do deals over the phone. And I believe we shared about our personal lives to some extent. I suspect he is somewhat shell shocked at the way I have spoken out in this forum, because I didn't talk that way on the phone with him before. Yet he had an example of me dominating another silver investment forum in 2006. All I can say, is I am different in person and on the phone than I am in written forums. Perhaps it is the way any one (of 1000s) can misunderstand and the conversation devolves because of that lack of personal interaction. I am Cancer so normally I can feel what another person is feeling with voice, but this seems to get lost in the interaction on the forums.

I was hesitant about getting involved in this, because see how it becomes a time sink.

I have received 180mBTC from an anonymous donor to be used in the same manner.

Thank you AnonyMint for going to the lengths you have to find individuals who would benefit from part of the money I am intending to give.  It may seem to some readers that I am bragging in the fact of giving by writing as I am in this thread but it is not the case.  I am writing partially because it helps me organise my thoughts, partially as a public response to AnonyMint and partially so that others may consider options if they are in half a mind to do likewise.

 It is not an easy decision but not one from which I will baulk, nor will I use the difficulty as an excuse to procrastinate with this.  It is good to hear reassuring words regarding the likely integrity and likely use should I send to the Philippines Red Cross.  Some will certainly go that way.  But I also like the idea of helping 'put families back in their homes so they can stablize their lives'.  One of the reasons I'm hesitant to follow through with your suggestions is despite what you say I don't 'know with confidence how my funds will be applied'.  I only have your word and I don't know you.  In fact, until I wanted to see what Rpietila was responding to I'd had you on ignore since I tired of your condescending posts and your refusal to believe you have anything to learn from others here.  Yet I recognise that arrogance* and dishonesty are two unrelated character traits and I have yet to see any indications in anything I've read of yours to date that would imply I ought to question your integrity.

I need time to think this through, not only the likelihood of the money getting where it is intended but of the recipients making good use of it.  You mention at the top you are searching for some who are 'even more desperate' than those you already provided.  However, as far as assisting the most desperate is concerned, that is what my PRC donation is for.  Desperate people don't always make the most rational decisions.  The higher value for me for money going direct to individuals is their likelihood of using it wisely, the likelihood of their being able to negotiate well for the materials they need and manage the assistance from neighbours well (or pay effective labour) to accomplish what they need to enable them to begin to rebuild their lives.  I am not saying I won't assist those whose names and stories you've provided already and I am not intending to come over as cold-hearted but there is also a risk to the recipient if they are in a desperate state in handing them a lump of money that they be taken advantage of by the unscrupulous.

Again, thank you for giving me food for thought and options.  I felt a little awkward that you mentioned to potential recipients someone might be prepared to help them when I was only making initial enquiries as to how this might work.  And the down side of me wanting to be careful if you are going back asking questions to ascertain their likely suitability is the risk it's going to come over as me wanting people to pass a test or jump through hoops to get assistance.  I hope you understand this is not what I intend and would appreciate you trying to understand where I'm coming from with my concerns.  I would like to move this forward quickly and am grateful for your information from the ground.

I should also maybe mention as an atheist that the fact of someone being a Christian or praying for me to assist has no bearing at all on my decision.

* I'm not wanting to throw the lengths you've gone to in putting this plan together back in your face by writing about you as harshly as I am, just giving you the context in which I need to make this decision.

I will attend to this matter asap. Thank you.

I have sent separate PMs to rpietila and thoughtfan. I provided 2 suggested needy recipients to rpietila and provided their contact info and their stories. Ditto for 4 other suggested needy recipients for thoughtfan. If thoughtfan needs more, I am searching for a few more who are even more desperate than the ones I provided already.

By knowing the stories of whom you are sending to, you know with confidence how your funds will be applied. The Red Cross Philippines is probably more on severe crisis mitigation such as running community tents and passing out cup of noodles. The PRC chairman Richard Gordon is the former head of the Subic Bay Economic Zone, where he took over what the US Navy had left behind in 1991. Whereas I am providing you the opportunity to put families back in their homes so they can stabilize their lives.

Thank you to these two guys. I can assure you the funds will not go to waste. I put my reputation on the line. Both of those guys know my real name now.

I was wondering what scale we were talking. If we were just talking one or two (or up to a several at most) donations, I would arrange it so you send directly to the needy I know of. If we are talking more, I need to outsource that compilation of names of the needy.

In my opinion is more effective for each of you to send directly to names of needy, than a individual middle man which might be corrupt. Although Red Cross is not likely corrupt but I don't know if they can service those in the far flung areas.

The person receiving only needs to have any sort of photo id, even a school id often works. Thus it is important the localbitcoins buyer of BTC, sends the LBC (local money transfer agent) control # only the intended recipient.

If it is only you two, I can send you some recipient names with their stories and their contact cell phone numbers which you can pass on to the localbitcoins buyer you choose in Manila. Some of them can do the LBC transfers.

Let me know as I need to ask those needy if they agree for me to provide their names and cell numbers. Note a cell phone costs as low as $8 here, so don't see that as sign of great wealth. Nor can you judge by non-tattered clothing as Okie-Okia (used clothing sent as donations not just for the typhoon e.g. your Salvation Army excess ends up over here ditto from Japan, Korea, etc) can be purchased here for $0.50 to $1 per item.

I too have been wondering how best to assist say with 4 bitcoins and till I read this going to use the BitMe address because apparently that is going directly to the Philippines Red Cross, the Red Cross being an organisation who I would guess vet very carefully how money is spent given the loss of its reputation would be disastrous.

But I'll hold for a few more days if there are other suggestions as to how it could be used more effectively.

It is not that much, really. I think give it to someone trustable who has the need and ability to put the money in good use for the benefit of people in his immediate neighborhood (however you call it). If he is personally not the most needy, he should consider who is and give the money or supplies.

I don't need thank you pictures, but hundreds of people read this thread. So some of them may be in the position to give a few mBTC after hearing the report that the initial donation reached the recipient and has been converted to roof tiles, pots and pans, or food

I am getting interested! Of course it is more hassle for the donor, but also at least 10x more timely help for the needy!

It is a breakdown in law and order, as not everyone has enough force to stop those armed who take advantage. Also many of the prisoners escaped from the prisons in that area. Also corruption/control around choke points.

The problem might be that common people don't own guns to protect themselves, yet that is perhaps because in the 19th century, there was so much danger of a competing tribe killing a male or indenturing a female, and there was a proliferation of weapons. It seems that security has always been organized by village captains. Some of this order fell away after the typhoon, and it will return I assume once the farmers can be stabilized again. As of now, many people feel desperate and are roaming around to find solutions. Of course not in every community, it varies and I assume it is improving.


I have a question first.

Do you mean a donation that can be used to provide those items for an entire community or do you mean allocated to one extended family "clan" who lost their home?

That amount is enough to construct some simple shelter and provide (probably considerable bulk) food. It is probably possible for you to receive a photo with a "thank you rpietila" or "we love you rpietila" sign in front of the goods and shelter that results. My read on the situation is the food can be purchased, just the price is higher (how much higher I do not know) because of those taking advantage to both hoard supplies and the lack of economies-of-scale in the distribution system right now due to various factors. Realize the poor spend a large % of their income on food, so even a small % higher is difficult, especially when their sources of livelihood have been lost in many cases (coconut harvesting and fishing boats gone).

I am also thinking of another who still has the frame of a house, but no roof. That level of donation might be more appropriate to constructing the roof and food. I think the one in Biliran is more needy, yet she left her mother behind and is in Manila and would need to return to administer the photo. I guess I would liason (for free of course, thus my donation is my time) the communication/organization for this one only for you, but the money would go directly to the chosen individual's name via localbitcoin send.

In the Philippines, all unhidden possessions are shared with all members of the clan. This is why "my infant nephew broken my cell phone" is a common event that I didn't understand until it became clear to me the culture doesn't not allow the word "no" when it comes to sharing known material possessions.

Seems that the problem is not the lack of purchasing power but the lack of free market. It does not help to send money, if the people are not able to buy what they need. As for sending supplies, you pretty much need to know the person who will allocate them, to make sure they reach the needy. We happened to visit Andhra Pradesh in late 2004, just before the tsunami. We were then in a prime position to send effective emergency aid by channels we had just audited were working properly.

I am sure that the world will develop very innovative solutions for the money allocation problem as soon as the governments realize they better get out of the way of the free movement of goods.

Thank you very much for your effort. Now if you think there is somebody to whom I can trust to send 500mBTC to be used for replacing of basic kitchen equipment, blankets, buy rice etc., hit me with a PM. But only if you believe it will truly help.

The best way is to go the P2P route, if that is not possible then here are a few addresses of organizations/people who accept Bitcoin donations for the Phillipines disaster victims.

Forum member Dabs
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/feed-some-children-by-dabs-donate-bitcoins-4920-meals-so-far-300631
BitMe
https://bitme.com/donate
CoinKite
http://blog.coinkite.com/post/67370637668/6725-from-the-bitcoin-community-to-the-canadian-red-cros

The people of Phillipines are hard working, but have had a series of natural disasters in the last two months. First the earthquake in Bohol, followed by super storm Haiyan.

Just got off the phone with my real estate broker contact. I mentioned to him about compiling a list of names and he said he has many contacts in government all over the country from his fraternity brothers in college. I don't have time to organize, but if you are really serious about using Bitcoin for this I will put you in touch with him. You could promote this for Bitcoin in the press.

He confirmed the likelihood of cornering of supplies coming into to the area.

I am not against the promotion Bitcoin would receive and the help it could provide to the needy. More power to you. Let me know in public or PM.

I should have written "clan" as I meant many local tribes sometimes mostly composed of relatives up to 5th cousins.

Actually I mostly agree and was thinking similarly when I wrote it. The only downside is when clans cheat and try to dominate other clans, e.g. cornering the aid supplies.

There are some localbitcoins market makers in Manila. They can send into LBC and other local money transfer outlets. So you can get pesos into that area directly.

I texted a filipino man who is a real estate broker and a good organizer. He replied just now, "Its a jungle out there. So disorganized. Some want to help others just want to make some money. How can I help, would I be paid for my time?". Note he has a 1 year old, and lives rather frugally on a smaller island, so he can't really offer his time for free.

Would it help if I found someone willing to compile a list of names for a reasonable compensation?

Then those who want to contribute could send directly to their name using localbitcoins providers in Manila who would send it on via LBC or the pawn shop money transfer outlets.

I know a few names I can put on that list, such as one lady who lost her Dad last year due to not being able to afford hospitalization for his kidney stones, then she and her mom lost their house to the typhoon. She is from Naval, Biliran island just near to Tacloban.

I know several others can I bet my contacts can provide a list of names.

Again I can't put much time into this, so I would need to farm it out to someone and money talks over here perhaps even a $100 or so.

Even then. That's the beauty because guarantees are meaningless anyway.

From another thread:


Add to this:

I instructed the newcomers to buy only BTC1 when my bearish call was in force. Now you can buy as much as you want, because the probability of a prolonged crash from these levels is lowered. Just remember to invest what you can afford to lose, because Bitcoin is in beta, and nobody guarantees it. Probably till the day it does away with fiat, it is still guaranteed by no one 

This is the solution, not the problem. It allocates the resources most effectively:
- The affected receive bitcoins directly to them just hours after the crisis, from private donors. P2P
- The material relief takes longer, but if it is allowed to go to the areas and sold at market price, all will be fine before a week has passed.

Can't you find a smaller charity that you can confirm is operating in the area rather than through a central clearing for all charity into the area?

Other than that, I could try to refer you to some locals, but I can't vouch that someone will remain honest when tempted. And the problem is the low economy-of-scale for you. Filipinos tend to be very caring but territorial first to self, then family, then tribe. Not all of course, but this is the serious friction you would encounter on the ground in real life.

I really wanted to go into the area. I had to decide between coding or going there.  

I was actually texting with people who were hit by the eye about midnight before the towers went out and the eye came through roughly 8 - 9am. Then I could not make any contacts into the area for several days.

P.S. I probably exaggerated to some extent, but I might not be far from the reality. There were free bus rides provided out of the area to Manila. But I am not exaggerating that aid is not reaching the far flung areas. There are also many smaller islands.

Charity is a flawed concept. In most cases it resembles government.

Everything is better organized by open market. The current system of socialism greatly aggravates suffering in crisis situations, because the incentives are twisted exactly to the opposite than what they should be:

For example, in times of crisis, businesses may have to give away their emergency supplies to the government, or to sell at rationed prices. Hoarding is discouraged, you may even lose your life if you try to defend your property. Yet, these businesses and hoarders would be in the very position to make the whole "crisis" a non-issue if only they would be let to operate normally and property not touched.

Because private preparation for crisis is discouraged under the laws that "it will be confiscated anyway", government has everyone at their mercy considering the most vulnerable supplies. Well planned. Hope as few of you as possible burn in hell.

I purchased the domain BitCharity.com a while back hoping to make a central hub for bitcoin donations but never had the time. If you have any ideas for it, would be glad to hear it.

We're heading in that direction at least. I only realized a little while ago that I wouldn't need to sell my BTC if I wanted to buy an airline ticket.. I'll just use btctrip instead. Same thing with buying stuff off Amazon... use Gyft.

And seeing as Amazon has a subscription service for things like toilet paper, cat food, and other household items.. I wouldn't need to buy them at the supermarket.. I could, in reality, buy them with bitcoin online.