Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 314. (Read 73577 times)

Whether it's the case of the history of Ukrainian propaganda about Russian soldiers who first saw asphalt and a toilet bowl in Ukraine (when millions of Ukrainians go to work in Russia as guest workers, prostitutes and cleaners of station toilets). Give me your Nutella or I'll eat your parrot and drink olive oil lol. Xeндe xox, ёптa.

The sick fantasy of propaganda is being refined as best it can. In this I see a kind of mockery of those to whom this propaganda is presented. Absolutely ridiculous outfits from aliexpress, the shooting takes place in some kind of field by the road, it's all so stupid that it's not clear who believes it all.

I don't see Cuba conquered

Grenada was just colonialist escapade by USA, there was nothing
worth to invade there nor they were Russian ally

Serbia - well, Russia probably played game there as Kosovo
gave them great pretext for Crimea and Donbass. Even Serbs
knew it was gone

China probably activated Solomon Islands story to show
West hypocrisy vs similar situation in Ukraine, even if they
don't have short term plans

200k of obviously unprepared and un-informed soldiers is enough to control a country that surrenders. But not enough to take it over if there is determined resistance. That is the key mistake that has costed thousands of Putin's soldier's lives.

Now the Chief Psycho has decided to regroup, add some Tactical Cannon Fodder Battalions and try to achieve some limited gains in favourable terrain, near the bases in Russia and in a limited hostile territory. This guys knows the limits of Putin's Army and would rather try a modest "success" than a "glorious defeat". I reckon this guy is more cunning than the previous ones.

What is the caveat of this strategy? Dvornikov the Butcher, Chief Psycho, is, as many generals, fighting the last war. Time has always been on his side in Georgia and Syria - he had a influx of troops that could rotate, proper funding, international apathy for the conflicts, apathy or support from Russians and their enemies had limited supplies.

In Ukraine, time can be turned against him by:

- EU and US preparing to de-couple energetically and financially from Russia.
- Increased sanctions and continued diplomatic action.
- Increased military aid and intelligence support to Ukraine.
- Increased information to the Russian people about the thousands of soldiers dead.
- Attacks to critical infrastructure and legitimate targets in Russian territory.

It is for US and Europe to make this work.


You are assuming there will be no consequences for Putin's Russia trying to do that in Europe?

Ukraine will be receiving all the help and supplies required to achieve a decisive victory. By this time, Putin's Chief Psychos must have noticed that US will not allow them to reach any significant gain, but they are certainly going to let Putin bleed, alas, with Europe. Russia did not learn anything from WW II, except to use their people as cannon fodder.


Or one can assume many other things - if that information was true in the first place.


be.open can word it however he wants, but the major surprise here was for Putin. The official initial objectives were:

"demilitarise" - Ukraine has an army that is stronger, better armed and better supported from outside than before.
"depose de government of Ukraine" - Ukraine government has now become a symbol of fight against tyranny.
"denazify" - Putin's actions got all the Nazi traits: encouraging Homophobia, Xenophobia ("gayrope"), militaristic, aggressive, curtailing free speech, incarcerating the opposition, invading neighbours, systematically destroying any balance of power, installing puppets and mass-graving civilians,... He has proven to be a Supremacist psycho.

The ones that were not declared:

- Install a puppet: Failed.
- Take Kyiv - expecting a surrender: Failed.
- Prevent Ukraine's access to the Black Sea: Failed (at least for now admittedly).

The ones that are achieved as of now:

- A corridor to Crimea... (except for the resistance in Mariupol).
- Territorial gains in the Donbass (very limited territorial gains).

Securing these two is still very questionable.



There is no way the separatists could have been funded an armed without Putin's money and support. It does not get any clearer.


Cuba, Grenada, Serbia, ...

Boris "Partyman" Johnson went to India so that he could avoid being in the UK while the results of the investigation on his behaviour during COVID were made public. A secondary objective was to establish a trade treaty to try to make-up the mess he is making after BREXIT, including being at clear risk of making Northern Ireland and independent country under Sinn Fein rule.

UK official position is to arm and help Ukraine and recently has stated that targeting legit objectives in Russia with UK supplied weapons is not a problem. This obviously has not been to the liking of the Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland tales.

Yep, but for some reason they call General Dvornikov the "Butcher of Aleppo" and a psychopath. Although he just did his job and left Assad in power when his fate already seemed sealed. Russia does not abandon its allies, regardless of the complexity of the situation - and therefore Russia is now respected in the Arab world. India also remembers how the USSR came to its aid when the whole world supported Pakistan against it. Therefore, Johnson can at least dress up as a clown, India listened to him carefully and took note of Britain's desire to restore trade ties, but refused to impose sanctions against Russia. Therefore, Serbia loves Russia, and also does not impose sanctions, despite the pressure of the European Union.

It really didn’t work out with Poland, how quickly they forgot about Katyn - well, no one really counted on them.

He is probably comparing that USA attacked 3 times smaller country (Iraq) with 5 times more soldiers (almost a million) and
only after 42 days of one of heaviest bombardment in history

Wait, are you being sarcastic here? Talking about no free lunches, after Ukraine accepted Nuland's cookies?   Or do you believe full scope of consequences, how it will be crossing Russia's red line and Ukraine becoming a military target, resulting in loss of life that we're seeing now, was fully disclosed to Ukrainian people as condition of accepting those cookies??

BTW if you're any country in central or south Americas with opposing views from US...who's country are you? Or better yet, how long will you have before you're sanctioned?

My position is that all big boys get their own sandboxes (spheres of influences). After loosing the cold war, Russia's sand box was eroded down to bare bones of Belarus, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan (all Russian speaking countries). And more or less everyone was fine with/accepted it. USA/Europe were growing, Russia was more liberal and positioning itself towards Europe. Now what genius decided to ruin that stability by taking Ukraine out of Russia's sandbox with cookies, is beyond me. And after that claiming the following:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military-action-if-china-establishes-base-in-solomon-islands

So Russia in 2014 when it was in shambles and was not a threat to anyone, shouldn't consider loosing a Russian speaking country ally, through which majority of its gas is exported to EU, as having "potential regional security implications". But somehow Solomons Islands have regional security implications for Australia which is 1.000miles away and US which is 10.000miles away? No one can be expected to swallow such BS, and that's how wars start.

Now what I hope is that US haven't gone full retarded, in fact clandestinely filling up the Ukraine with weapons and bringing their army from 0 to 101% in 8yrs [although by leveraging NAZIs] points to US fully expected Russian retaliation. Now this will either bare fruits and will bring a fall of Putin, or will be a total diplomatic fuck up, EU would be freezing and unable to compete on global markets (due to higher costs of raw resources), while Russia is pushed into China's hands and now with set precedent China uses same playbook to buy loyalty of poor countries situated closely to its adversaries. Great high risk low reward move...

I might be taking a practical approach, but your approach that any hypocrisy and blatant double standards could be justified by claiming that it represents the "will of people" just doesn't hold water. If anything it makes pushing back on China impossible when US does exactly the same thing.

Was a fan of Switzerland, bottom line their referendums and neutrality worked out great for them (isolation by alps helped out too). But by bending over on bank reporting to US, and now joining EU sanctions, the saying "neutral as Switzerland" doesn't make much sense anymore. In fact i have no idea what they have left going for them, that Nazi gold they're holding must be running out soon, and not sure how much millennials care about great watches. But in any case, as far as all regimes having issues, sure can't argue there, but then should we start with biggest offenders, those who start the most wars, who objectively caused the most loss of life, who's weapons kill the most people bar none?

There are consequences for setting precedence and breaking international norms. Claiming unique rights because you represents the "will of the people" just makes you a clown in international relations

Well, it seems that these are not very good prospects for Ukraine. However, it seems that yesterday the intensity of artillery fire from Russia sharply decreased, the period of intensive softening of the fortified positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass lasted about a week. I can assume that a significant part of the centers of fire resistance identified by reconnaissance has already been destroyed there and the preparatory part of the battle for Donbass has already ended.

It doesn't matter how well Ukraine prepared for a Russian invasion if it missed a surprise blow. Although TwitchySeal believes that Ukraine won near Kyiv and kicked Russia's ass there, putting it to flight. This feature of Ukrainian propaganda does not surprise me; it even declared the defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Mariupol as a victory.

200,000 soldiers is dramatically small to start an operation; according to NATO intelligence estimates, the minimum number required to control only the eastern part of Ukraine is 400,000 soldiers. Russia began the operation with half the resources in terms of manpower, dispersed in addition to the East, also in the North and South. I think that's why NATO considered Putin's statements a bluff, NATO intelligence had accurate data, but made incorrect conclusions from them.

Mariupol suffered significantly in urban battles, it's true. The Azovstal plant cannot be restored, blast furnaces cannot be turned off and turned back on like a gas burner - this is a continuous cycle enterprise. As soon as the blast furnaces at Azovstal were stopped, there was no longer much point in keeping its walls intact. It seems that now 240-mm mortars "Tulip" are working there. Everything else will be restored. Mariupol has a very important strategic importance in this operation for a number of reasons, so I think the victims were not in vain.

You have an interesting interpretation of historical events, but I do not agree with it.

History is written by the winners, not the losers. This story is not over yet, so any conclusions are at least premature.

Formally, no one has canceled the covid-19 pandemic in Russia. It is not the size of the table that is curious, but what Putin told him, regarding the decision of the International Court of Justice on Kosovo's right to self-determination, without permission from the capital - that this episode created a precedent, on the basis of which the independence of Donbass from Kyiv could be quite legitimate. It seems that Guterres did not find what to answer to this argument of Putin.

If it weren't for that law they just passed about what you can say about the war special operation, I'd give you a hard time about letting your emotions keep you from admitting that Russia got their ass whooped in the battle for Kyiev.

I'm not sure where did you got that Russian invasion become surprise for Ukraine, NATO and West. IIRC, few days before inavsion, USA intelligence warned that inavsion can begin at any moment, on 23th February state of emergency started in Ukraine. Though, Ukraine admitted that they didn't expected invasion in North, from Belarus side.
And I'm not sure why you're saying about too small forces, when there was close ti 200k troops near to Ukrainian border.


And lonng table is in action again . This time in meeting with António Guterres.
Though, Putin used long table in meetings with local officers too - Lavrov, Shoigu, Danilov and etc.


It's not surprise for me, I know this fact for a long time. And I'm still getting cognitive dissonance about it. How you can become army general without serving in army? And yeah, I read that now Butcher of Syria is one of the main persons in this war now.

So, Mariupol's infrastructure isn't good after all? But I used it just as most obvious example, there is lot of smaller cities with huge damage like Severodonetsk or Borodyanka.

And this ''civilian war'' was started by Russia 8 years ago. And what is genocide of Russian speaking Donbass population is still big mistery for me.

I am not trying to prove anything. You are comparing Putin's war to a peacekeeping mission - which is not, because they have clearly declared that they are fighting on behalf of one side, or a proxy war between Russia and the US, which is not because there are no US soldiers (nor NATO troops) in the conflict but there are Putin's Russia soldiers - so it is not a proxy, it is simply a war between Russia and Ukraine.

Russia has put forward their conditions about how Ukraine would need to act to avoid being invaded. That, in my hood's called a threat, not a negotiation. Ukraine has decided not to be bullied. On top of that, the Donbas conflict could not exist without the support from Putin's Russia. War is expensive - who is funding the separatists? We all know who.

Seems to me that Putin wants peace, but only if he sets the rules, else ... psycho mode.
#

Oh, I can help you with that. The guy's strategy is: using massively artillery in cities. Night and day, flatten them. He led the war in Syria... this is Aleppo after his "strategy". This is why the West should be helping Ukraine achieve a decisive victory, this guy is not a soldier, is a psycho.

RE GDP, you are right to assume that people would be very happy about a better lifestyle - that is, if that money really ever reaches the average Joe. However, you should as well tell them that they are becoming a military target, should a war ever occur and they will be from then on depending on keeping in the good side of the CCP and thus loose their independence and, to a great degree, their freedom. You, see ... there are no free lunches, particularly, there are no free "swallow nests" when dealing with the CCP (and I am the one being classed as Naïve... oh my).#

By the way, if you have an army of, let's say 1000 soldiers and you have a base in your territory of, let's say 5000 Chinese soldiers, backed up by a massively superior force ... who's country is it?

See, you can argue about how representative democracies are, however, you cannot argue how representative is the system in Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran... because there is no argument.

Your position is that "since representative governments are not perfect then everything is equally bad". Cuba and US have the same level of legitimacy for you. Also, you take the practical approach to world diplomacy, but an ethical approach to judging representation in democracies.

We do not agree, that's all. Certainly, I am not trying to make anything up, I am simply expressing my view. I do not need to "list" ... you need free press, respect for the law and the individual rights and a representative system to elect a government plus independent judiciary... the more the better),

Also, I am not trying to convince you of anything either, nor do I need to justify anyone else's doing and I am certainly not going to try to justify any of the Bushes - Junior is certainly psychopath IMHO.

I think that my way of seeing things is what corresponds to a civilized position in the XXI century. Tzars, despots, kings, feudal lords... that is medieval and humanity should strive to get rid of those systems and those who support and promote them.

I am not a fan of the US nor I defend their way of electing representatives, the massive private donations, the gerrymandering and many other of the idiosyncrasies of the voting system. I could say the same for France, UK (extreme gerrymandering), Spain (you vote for a list, not a person) and even Switzerland which tends to delegate too much into referendums, even for decisions that are too complex, ... you can name any representative system and it has its faults.

I think this forecast has already lost its relevance. When I did it, Kadyrov's Chechen regiment was standing near Kyiv, waiting for Putin's signal to attack. Then he was transferred to Mariupol and they, along with the marines and militiamen of Donbass, took Mariupol. In urban battles, this is perhaps the most formidable weapon of Russia, hot bearded mountaineers who shout "Allah Akbar!" after each RPG shot or grenade throw, and they feel like fish in water under bullets. Now the Chechen special forces "Akhmat" have been transferred from Mariupol to the East of Ukraine and, together with the Lugansk militia, are cleaning up the city of Rubizhne in the LPR.

I will refrain from making new forecasts regarding the timing or even the likely directions of strikes, it is difficult for me to predict the logic of the combat general who command this operation. As before, I am sure that Ukraine has no chances in an armed confrontation with Russia, and that over time, the negotiating position of Ukraine is steadily deteriorating, time works for Russia.

I don't understand what you are trying to prove to me? That only the United States or NATO countries have the exclusive right to conduct peacekeeping or special military operations, including without the sanction of the UN Security Council, invading the territory of sovereign states? (There are many examples, the most recent being Turkey's recent invasion of Northern Iraq, which is ongoing right now). Or that Russia has not made enough diplomatic efforts to peacefully resolve the conflict within the framework of the Minsk agreements?

Ahh right, the "will of the people", totally objective position for international relations, who wouldn't buy up such logic. Now who do you think should decide which governments "speak on behalf of its people" enough to allow them to join pacts? Care to share your list? Did Bush represent the majority of Americans, majority supported, had an agreement and were informed of the consequences (economic, political,...) of getting into Afghanistan? So were Trump's and now Biden's actions?

I mean if we're going to make up justifications why some countries are not allowed to do things that others can, after the fact, why not just say that counties that are in a pact that begins with NA* or in alliance with such pact, can just do whatever they want, wile everyone else gets sanctioned?

S.I. GDP is just $1.71 billion if China double/triple/10x... countries GDP overnight do you not think that majority wouldn't be dancing on the streets welcoming it's military in their houses?? Such idiotic diplomacy is what got us to this place. Now China is just going to buy up "majority" in every poor country that it wishes. If this is the best argument for foreign policy they can come up with, then it's a total diplomatic failure. No one with IQ higher than a rock will accept such mental gymnastics.

Wasn't the surprise that Russia failed and ended up retreating 5 weeks after the war began?  Everyone thought it would be a matter of weeks or even a few days for Kyiv to fall, but the world overestimated the capabilities of the Russian Army and underestimated Ukraine, including you:



Care to make any more bold predictions? Zelinsky seems to be much more confident now that he has seen the Russian army in action.

The original version would be

This is Russia we're talking about... single cruiser loitering around hostile cost and spontaneously catching fire... the helicopter sliding off the ship when it was listing would be quite in character.

However the sonar pictures might be fake so take it with the requisite amounts of salt.

You can also see the rouble / USD value right by the helicopter, sunken deep.

On the helicopter thing, I am not saying this is not accurate information, but I wonder why was the helicopter not able to leave the ship?

The nurses... gee, looking clean and lovely. No wonder Putin's soldiers are so keen in getting wounded and their leader make all kinds of efforts to send them to the hospital. Or the morgue.

The first echolocation images of the ex-flagship of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation appeared.

The wreckage of a Mi-26 helicopter lying near the cruiser is also visible.


But I was especially pleased with the Russian propaganda ingenuity ... if I were the one who would receive money for such work, I still would not have thought of dressing the girls in the uniform of sexy nurses with swastika elements, (the uniform is definitely taken from a sex shop or a drama theater because this kind of costume nurses wore 70 years ago).

Are you aware that you just quoted one of my links above? Yes you provide links to official media sometimes ... hardly a proof, more of food for Youtube algos.

Oh, my brain is fine. I know you will have a hard time understanding me and, be sure, I am not here to amuse you. Truth is boring, logic is long, boring and does not provide simple (yet wrong) answers to complex issues.