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Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 338. (Read 76905 times)

legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
So what do we have so far...

  • No dead civilians, they're actors, waving their hands.
  • But if there are dead civilians then Ukrainians killed them.
  • But if Russians killed them then we'll call the victims "nazis" and it's ok to kill them.
  • But if they're not nazis then Americans have killed civilians so it's ok to kill civilians.
  • But if it's not ok to kill civilians, they provoked Putin so it's their own fault.

Did I miss anything?
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1632
Do not die for Putin
What was Putin asking them to do that was unacceptable?

Asking? He was taking, not asking - Donbas and Crimea. That's unacceptable.

Do you approve 2014 CIA organized coup in Ukraine?

Loaded question. The current Ukrainian government is democratically elected. I wouldn't be so sure about Putin's buddy Yanukovych, but it's definitely up to Ukrainians to decide whom they want to elect, not up to Putin.

Do you approve NATO spreading to east, although they promised they won't to Gorbachev?

Loaded question again. It's up to each country to decide if they want to join NATO, not up to Putin.



So I take it you think that Ukraine and subsequently every country in Europe should just give up and gift themselves to Putin.

By not answering Branko is already answering. Once more people are not what they say, but what they do. In this case, what he does not do - giving an answer because he would have to recognise that, in his mind, his view of the world is about force and despotism.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
What was Putin asking them to do that was unacceptable?

Asking? He was taking, not asking - Donbas and Crimea. That's unacceptable.

Do you approve 2014 CIA organized coup in Ukraine?

Loaded question. The current Ukrainian government is democratically elected. I wouldn't be so sure about Putin's buddy Yanukovych, but it's definitely up to Ukrainians to decide whom they want to elect, not up to Putin.

Do you approve NATO spreading to east, although they promised they won't to Gorbachev?

Loaded question again. It's up to each country to decide if they want to join NATO, not up to Putin.



So I take it you think that Ukraine and subsequently every country in Europe should just give up and gift themselves to Putin.
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1632
Do not die for Putin
Nope, Putin said A and he did A.
Also, I put video of Zelensky advisor saying "we know Putin will attack if we do A, but we will do it
anyway" previously, but someone removed my post without explanation, so I won't repost it

So the Ukrainians should have just given up and done what Putin was telling them to do, is that your point? And then what?


What was Putin asking them to do that was unacceptable?
Do you approve 2014 CIA organized coup in Ukraine?
Do you approve NATO spreading to east, although they promised they won't to Gorbachev?

Quote
Let's make something clear: Do you think Putin has the right to tell Ukraine what they can and cannot do in their country? Do you class invading if they choose something else is somehow acceptable?

Is that a yes or a no?
sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 328
Nope, Putin said A and he did A.
Also, I put video of Zelensky advisor saying "we know Putin will attack if we do A, but we will do it
anyway" previously, but someone removed my post without explanation, so I won't repost it

So the Ukrainians should have just given up and done what Putin was telling them to do, is that your point? And then what?


What was Putin asking them to do that was unacceptable?
Do you approve 2014 CIA organized coup in Ukraine?
Do you approve NATO spreading to east, although they promised they won't to Gorbachev?
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
Nope, Putin said A and he did A.
Also, I put video of Zelensky advisor saying "we know Putin will attack if we do A, but we will do it
anyway" previously, but someone removed my post without explanation, so I won't repost it

So the Ukrainians should have just given up and done what Putin was telling them to do, is that your point? And then what?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 3439
Man who stares at charts (and stars, too...)
^Putin acutally believes that UA is a part of RU. In his view, he just takes back what belongs to Russia, from the "thieves" that took it away.
If this doesn't sound paranoid, tell me it isn't so.

IMO, everybody defending Putin/Russia in this thread should stop posting and go koin the RA. Good riddance!
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1632
Do not die for Putin

Again, Putin say A but Putin does B. You intend to find the answer in A. Is not there. If you think that any truth comes out of his mouth your may be actually cutely naive. Information provided by the enemy is never information (first rule of war, and you should know).

Nope, Putin said A and he did A.
Also, I put video of Zelensky advisor saying "we know Putin will attack if we do A, but we will do it
anyway" previously, but someone removed my post without explanation, so I won't repost it

Let's make something clear: Do you think Putin has the right to tell Ukraine what they can and cannot do in their country? Do you class invading if they choose something else is somehow acceptable?
sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 328

Again, Putin say A but Putin does B. You intend to find the answer in A. Is not there. If you think that any truth comes out of his mouth your may be actually cutely naive. Information provided by the enemy is never information (first rule of war, and you should know).

Nope, Putin said A and he did A.
Also, I put video of Zelensky advisor saying "we know Putin will attack if we do A, but we will do it
anyway" previously, but someone removed my post without explanation, so I won't repost it
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1632
Do not die for Putin

Cuban crisis, you mean during the cold war? I can certainly see why you understand Putin and even seem to agree that he has some short of right over Ukraine - particularly the right to not let them choose. You are both thinking of a world that does no longer exist.

Practical example: I go to my neighbour and tell him that he cannot have a dog, despite there are now laws on the matter. He gets a dog. According to you, now I have the right to enter his house and kill the dog because, let's say, I am stronger and have a knife.

Putin had the occasion to be part of the world as an economic power with diplomatic links to large bits of Europe and could have become again a real powerhouse. Putin failed, this war is the tantrum of the kid that lost the game by his own incompetence to move his nation to a future of prosperity.


I can only wonder if you're so naive, or you think we're naive...funny part is that Putin addressed ALL of
your points in his interview, but sadly, you don't watch youtube

Well, thank you, it is probably the first time someone calls me naive.

Again, Putin say A but Putin does B. You intend to find the answer in A. Is not there. If you think that any truth comes out of his mouth your may be actually cutely naive. Information provided by the enemy is never information (first rule of war, and you should know).
sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 328

Cuban crisis, you mean during the cold war? I can certainly see why you understand Putin and even seem to agree that he has some short of right over Ukraine - particularly the right to not let them choose. You are both thinking of a world that does no longer exist.

Practical example: I go to my neighbour and tell him that he cannot have a dog, despite there are now laws on the matter. He gets a dog. According to you, now I have the right to enter his house and kill the dog because, let's say, I am stronger and have a knife.

Putin had the occasion to be part of the world as an economic power with diplomatic links to large bits of Europe and could have become again a real powerhouse. Putin failed, this war is the tantrum of the kid that lost the game by his own incompetence to move his nation to a future of prosperity.


I can only wonder if you're so naive, or you think we're naive...funny part is that Putin addressed ALL of
your points in his interview, but sadly, you don't watch youtube
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1632
Do not die for Putin

Putin is not a mad dictator, he is simply a guy from another age and a Russian supremacist, like our troll be.open here. He is not mad, he understands his acts and the consequences, it is his ethics and understanding of the world, that is still anchored on the cold war and Russian supremacy that are causing this.



You clearly didn't watch his interview

You clearly believe what he says, not what he does.

....

As someone who's not from either side of war ...

Sure.

Of course I do...he said he will have to attack Ukraine if they continue to cross what he called "red lines" ...and he did
Ukraine also said they will continue to provoke him, no matter what, and they did.
Both sides were on collision path, too bad there was no good will to back off, like during Cuban crisis

Cuban crisis, you mean during the cold war? I can certainly see why you understand Putin and even seem to agree that he has some short of right over Ukraine - particularly the right to not let them choose. You are both thinking of a world that does no longer exist.

Practical example: I go to my neighbour and tell him that he cannot have a dog, despite there are now laws on the matter. He gets a dog. According to you, now I have the right to enter his house and kill the dog because, let's say, I am stronger and have a knife.

Putin had the occasion to be part of the world as an economic power with diplomatic links to large bits of Europe and could have become again a real powerhouse. Putin failed, this war is the tantrum of the kid that lost the game by his own incompetence to move his nation to a future of prosperity.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
500k Ukrainian refugees went to Russia etc...

Sure, and millions of people "went" to Siberia and other exciting places during Stalin's "pacкyлaчивaниe".
sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 328

Putin is not a mad dictator, he is simply a guy from another age and a Russian supremacist, like our troll be.open here. He is not mad, he understands his acts and the consequences, it is his ethics and understanding of the world, that is still anchored on the cold war and Russian supremacy that are causing this.



You clearly didn't watch his interview

You clearly believe what he says, not what he does.

....

As someone who's not from either side of war ...

Sure.

Of course I do...he said he will have to attack Ukraine if they continue to cross what he called "red lines" ...and he did
Ukraine also said they will continue to provoke him, no matter what, and they did.
Both sides were on collision path, too bad there was no good will to back off, like during Cuban crisis
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 1632
Do not die for Putin

Putin is not a mad dictator, he is simply a guy from another age and a Russian supremacist, like our troll be.open here. He is not mad, he understands his acts and the consequences, it is his ethics and understanding of the world, that is still anchored on the cold war and Russian supremacy that are causing this.



You clearly didn't watch his interview

You clearly believe what he says, not what he does.

....

As someone who's not from either side of war ...

Sure.

...
Geneva convention uh?

Quote
While all 196 countries comply with the Geneva conventions, in 2019, Russia withdrew itself from Article 90 of protocol 1. This article expects the country to oblige and comply with any international fact-finding mission.

I wonder why. You see, the only proof of Putin following the Geneva convention is... your word.


Did US sign it? Or you holding Russia to higher standards than US? Big powers are fighting, war is hell, innocent people that are stuck in the middle die. So far civilian deaths are relatively low for the war this size.

One side dominates control of the media, so huge efforts are extended to keep up the moral and try to manage surrenders. Top generals are sacked for treason, mayors declared traitors, videos of military police roughing up alleged saboteurs in civilian clothes, 500k Ukrainian refugees went to Russia etc... Who really cares what's proven true/false in few months, when you need to survive today. Ukraine needs more Russian Warship Go Fuck Yourself moments, just as Russia needs more videos of tictoc battalion doing cool things

I do not hold anyone to a particular standard other than not providing misleading information. It Putin is saying there are no crimes, I, with the information I have currently, disagree.

In so far as I am concern, US presidents and troops have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity and denied it. That does not give others the right to do the same.

From a practical perspective, the US is not threating Europe and, for me, Attacking a democracy is not the same as attacking a despotic regime.

sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 328
I think it is a fairly simple task for a medical examination to distinguish a fresh corpse from a corpse that has lain on the street for three weeks. Of course, not as simple as painting muddy pixels on satellite images, but nonetheless.

I'm just wondering how you can be such a self-centered people to think that the world is just trying to find the most sophisticated ways to frame you. How do you explain such obsession of others with your country and your population? By your logic, Ukraine has been inventing all these horrible events all these 42 days, gathering millions of actors (I didn't have a high opinion of our cinema, really, but it turns out that no one can distinguish our "creativity" from reality), obviously using extremely expensive technology (again, I had no idea we had it) to create a fake of this magnitude to deceive everyone but you. Have you ever thought that the organization of such an action requires a perfectly honed system that would work smoothly. Do you know examples of such systems throughout human history? It is impossible to create it artificially, because there will always be a human factor that destroys such a system. Isn't it more likely that all these shots of dead, tortured, raped people are true? And that your propaganda system has spawned the monsters that do it all?


As someone who's not from either side of war (although Croatia is part of NATO and looking at our mass media one could say we're actually in war,
as any info coming from Russia is suppressed and our media serves as part of Ukrainian PR machine), my main problem is that media is SO
one sided that any sane person at one moment starts to question everything, no matter what side its coming from.

There were so many Ukrainian fake PR stunts that it actually backfires, but since only few percent people actually use brain, I guess massive NATO
states brainwashing actually works.
So 90% people still thinks Russian tank magically teleported into Kiev few hours after invasion started and is overruning cars and civilians,
Ghost of Kiev just passed his 200th destroyed Russian plane and counting etc

Only sure facts are that Russia is attacker, Ukraine is defending itself, and USA and China are very happy with that (and EU is unhappy, but helpless)
And its war, and in war all sides do war crimes
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 816
Top Crypto Casino
I think it is a fairly simple task for a medical examination to distinguish a fresh corpse from a corpse that has lain on the street for three weeks. Of course, not as simple as painting muddy pixels on satellite images, but nonetheless.

I'm just wondering how you can be such a self-centered people to think that the world is just trying to find the most sophisticated ways to frame you. How do you explain such obsession of others with your country and your population? By your logic, Ukraine has been inventing all these horrible events all these 42 days, gathering millions of actors (I didn't have a high opinion of our cinema, really, but it turns out that no one can distinguish our "creativity" from reality), obviously using extremely expensive technology (again, I had no idea we had it) to create a fake of this magnitude to deceive everyone but you. Have you ever thought that the organization of such an action requires a perfectly honed system that would work smoothly. Do you know examples of such systems throughout human history? It is impossible to create it artificially, because there will always be a human factor that destroys such a system. Isn't it more likely that all these shots of dead, tortured, raped people are true? And that your propaganda system has spawned the monsters that do it all?
legendary
Activity: 2833
Merit: 1851
In order to dump coins one must have coins
...
Geneva convention uh?

Quote
While all 196 countries comply with the Geneva conventions, in 2019, Russia withdrew itself from Article 90 of protocol 1. This article expects the country to oblige and comply with any international fact-finding mission.

I wonder why. You see, the only proof of Putin following the Geneva convention is... your word.


Did US sign it? Or you holding Russia to higher standards than US? Big powers are fighting, war is hell, innocent people that are stuck in the middle die. So far civilian deaths are relatively low for the war this size.

One side dominates control of the media, so huge efforts are extended to keep up the moral and try to manage surrenders. Top generals are sacked for treason, mayors declared traitors, videos of military police roughing up alleged saboteurs in civilian clothes, 500k Ukrainian refugees went to Russia etc... Who really cares what's proven true/false in few months, when you need to survive today. Ukraine needs more Russian Warship Go Fuck Yourself moments, just as Russia needs more videos of tictoc battalion doing cool things
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1655
Rêlêå§ê ¥ðµr MïñÐ
The information in the Telegram channel "Bucha Live" can help to get some idea of how the population of Bucha lived in March 2022.
I looked through the posts from March 11 to April 1. Generally speaking, according to this channel, the evacuation took place in the city until March 21, but then it stopped. Also there were a lot of reports about looting and missing people. Before April 1, several messages about the shot Bucha inhabitants were published, but I didn't see posts with photographs or videos of the bodies lying on the road.
Next, I sorted the key information from the Telegram channel "Bucha Live" by date from oldest to newest.

12.03 - The video of dead citizens being buried near the church in a common grave. https://t.me/News380/5617
14.03 - Russian soldiers ordered residents to wear white armbands as an identification mark. https://t.me/News380/5729
14.03 - The mayor of Bucha has declared a humanitarian catastrophe. https://t.me/News380/5793
15.03 - The video from Bucha's streets. https://t.me/News380/5868
15.03 - The girl lost her arm. https://t.me/News380/5870
16.03 - The message that "orcs" and some locals are looting houses. https://t.me/News380/6027
17.03 - The story of Bucha resident about dead bodies all over the city, and also the lack of water and food. https://t.me/News380/6047
20.03 - Ukrainian counterintelligence identifies and kills saboteurs in territorial defense. The order was given not to leave anyone alive. https://t.me/News380/6512
21.03 - The report says that Russian troops steal and take out cars, household appliances and food. https://t.me/News380/6583
22.03 - The report that Russian soldier shot the father in front of his 14-year-old offspring. https://t.me/News380/6716
25.03 - The mayor of Bucha is called a fugitive. https://t.me/News380/7021
26.03 - Anonymous reports on social networks about the shot teachers. https://t.me/News380/7092
27.03 - A local resident was shot dead. https://t.me/News380/7231
28.03 - The video from Bucha's streets. https://t.me/News380/7338
29.03 - Marauders continue to operate in Bucha. https://t.me/News380/7467
31.03 - Reports that a fresh detachment of Russian soldiers entered the city. https://t.me/News380/7660
31.03 - Heavy fights. https://t.me/News380/7664
31.03 - Street photos. https://t.me/News380/7702 , https://t.me/News380/7726 , https://t.me/News380/7788
31.03 - The first news about Bucha liberation. https://t.me/News380/7741
31.03 - Rumors that Bucha is still under the control of Russian soldiers. https://t.me/News380/7774
01.04 - The city administration warns that it's still dangerous on the streets. https://t.me/News380/7839
01.04 - Ukrainian army in the city. https://t.me/News380/7887
01.04 - The mayor of Bucha officially announced the liberation of the city from the Russian troops. https://t.me/News380/7913
01.04 - The meeting of the mayor of Bucha with the residents. https://t.me/News380/7933
01.04 - The very first video with corpses on the road was published. https://t.me/News380/7944
sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 328

Putin is not a mad dictator, he is simply a guy from another age and a Russian supremacist, like our troll be.open here. He is not mad, he understands his acts and the consequences, it is his ethics and understanding of the world, that is still anchored on the cold war and Russian supremacy that are causing this.



You clearly didn't watch his interview
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