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Topic: Sales of accounts and invites to invite-only sites - page 5. (Read 13514 times)

newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.
so we're supposed to allow illegal activities to be conducted on this forum? aren't we supposed to make bitcoin mainstream and not tied to illegal transactions?

So we blame the currency for how its being used, thats a fair assessment.....NOT

I just addressed this question in my last post.  The currency is associated with the people and transactions that primarily use it.  If a new currency is primarily used or even remotely used for criminal activities it can harm the reception and spread of the currency as whole.  It's much the same as child nutrition, failing to feed a child healthy nutrients may result in stunted growth and development, which can not be fixed later in life.

Kinda what I was about to say. Yes, people shouldn't blame a currency for how it's being used, but people will do that anyways. There are a few US politicians that are calling for action against BitCoin, and you can bet they'll be willing to pull any shady looking thing from an unofficial BitCoin forum as proof that BitCoins are the tools of drug addicted terrorists selling WoW accounts to each other. They'll take anything they can twist to make BitCoin seem dangerous, illegal, or childish.

We're kind of getting off-topic, this is mostly redundant, but those politicians are having strings pulled by financial institutions that view a currency like bitcoin as competition.  The arguments about why it needs to go away are mostly irrelevant, but the end goal is what is important to those individuals and institutions.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
I have not threatened anyone.  I have however bought to light the criminal and civil liability that exists from ignoring transactions of illegal sales, which so far appears to be what the staff here is advocating for.


You aren't a lawyer, so what may seems illegal to you may not to me. Like the threatening part, especially when you promote illegal websites.

Actually prosecutions of computer fraud, access fraud, and theft of service does routinely hold up in court.  Unauthorized distribution or sales of access codes do result in jail time.  I already posted proof the previous thread and you'll find that most first world nations and even third world nations contain laws covering this activity.  Invites are access codes which if shared in an unauthorized manner are considered illegal access.  It's no different then providing login credentials.  If you want to believe something else, you're free to do so, but laws in most nations state otherwise.

I already said once:

Prove me dishonesty. So far you have failed to do so.
Prove me that the website was hacked.

Now the additional factor. All these nzbs websites are illegal in nature. ToS of an illegal website is worthless.

The door is that way ===================>

member
Activity: 112
Merit: 16
It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.
so we're supposed to allow illegal activities to be conducted on this forum? aren't we supposed to make bitcoin mainstream and not tied to illegal transactions?

So we blame the currency for how its being used, thats a fair assessment.....NOT

I just addressed this question in my last post.  The currency is associated with the people and transactions that primarily use it.  If a new currency is primarily used or even remotely used for criminal activities it can harm the reception and spread of the currency as whole.  It's much the same as child nutrition, failing to feed a child healthy nutrients may result in stunted growth and development, which can not be fixed later in life.

Kinda what I was about to say. Yes, people shouldn't blame a currency for how it's being used, but people will do that anyways. There are a few US politicians that are calling for action against BitCoin, and you can bet they'll be willing to pull any shady looking thing from an unofficial BitCoin forum as proof that BitCoins are the tools of drug addicted terrorists selling WoW accounts to each other. They'll take anything they can twist to make BitCoin seem dangerous, illegal, or childish.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.
so we're supposed to allow illegal activities to be conducted on this forum? aren't we supposed to make bitcoin mainstream and not tied to illegal transactions?

So we blame the currency for how its being used, thats a fair assessment.....NOT

I addressed this question in my last post.  The currency is associated with the people and transactions that primarily use it.  If a new currency is primarily or even remotely used for criminal activities it can harm the reception and spread of the currency as whole.  It's much the same as child nutrition, failing to feed a child healthy nutrients may result in stunted growth and development, which can not be fixed later in life.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.
so we're supposed to allow illegal activities to be conducted on this forum? aren't we supposed to make bitcoin mainstream and not tied to illegal transactions?

So we blame the currency for how its being used, thats a fair assessment.....NOT
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0

It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.

So it bothers you that I'm trying to improve the forum by getting Admin to recognize criminal activity taking place here that may harm the reputation of bitcoin and the website?  Well that's pretty sad actually.

Sad is the fact that you think this forum has anything to do with the way bitcoin is seen by the world.

I actually engaged in a discussion about this topic with someone else, he might read this thread (if so hello Wink ).   While it's true that a currency can gain momentum and ultimately in time not be impacted by minor incidents or small blips of abuse, there is a critical mass phase with build up, similar to escape velocity needed to break atmosphere.  In the early lifecycle of a new currency like bitcoin it is imperative that the reputation of the currency not be constrained or otherwise hampered by impropriety or it may never be well received.  This is the way of the world, and it honestly applies to other areas beyond financial methods of exchange.
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1431
It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.
so we're supposed to allow illegal activities to be conducted on this forum? aren't we supposed to make bitcoin mainstream and not tied to illegal transactions?
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

It seems like the admin here is finding new and creative ways to rationalize existing behavior and transactions without changing much of anything other than banning the low hanging fruit that dare to be bold enough to admit to their procurement methods and acquisitions.

Nothing has really changed.  As long as the seller admits nothing publicly it's business as usual and the rules that Theymos has drafted clearly reflect that.

It seems like you joined the forum just to start shit about this......  What makes your words so valuable? Are you a lawyer? Law enforcement?

Nope I'm not law enforcement.   However, I do object to illegal sales and distribution of login credentials and access codes, no matter what website or forum they are used for.  Most website or database admin you would ask would tell you the same thing.  I'm sorry if you disagree with that opinion.  Don't kill the messenger because you can't agree with the message.

It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.

So it bothers you that I'm trying to improve the forum by getting Admin to recognize criminal activity taking place here that may harm the reputation of bitcoin and the website?  Well that's pretty sad actually.

Sad is the fact that you think this forum has anything to do with the way bitcoin is seen by the world.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

It seems like the admin here is finding new and creative ways to rationalize existing behavior and transactions without changing much of anything other than banning the low hanging fruit that dare to be bold enough to admit to their procurement methods and acquisitions.

Nothing has really changed.  As long as the seller admits nothing publicly it's business as usual and the rules that Theymos has drafted clearly reflect that.

It seems like you joined the forum just to start shit about this......  What makes your words so valuable? Are you a lawyer? Law enforcement?

Nope I'm not law enforcement.   However, I do object to illegal sales and distribution of login credentials and access codes, no matter what website or forum they are used for.  Most website or database admin you would ask would tell you the same thing.  I'm sorry if you disagree with that opinion.  Don't kill the messenger because you can't agree with the message.

It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.

So it bothers you that I'm trying to improve the forum by getting Admin to recognize criminal activity taking place here that may harm the reputation of bitcoin and the website?  Well that's pretty sad actually.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

It seems like the admin here is finding new and creative ways to rationalize existing behavior and transactions without changing much of anything other than banning the low hanging fruit that dare to be bold enough to admit to their procurement methods and acquisitions.

Nothing has really changed.  As long as the seller admits nothing publicly it's business as usual and the rules that Theymos has drafted clearly reflect that.

It seems like you joined the forum just to start shit about this......  What makes your words so valuable? Are you a lawyer? Law enforcement?

Nope I'm not law enforcement.   However, I do object to illegal sales and distribution of login credentials and access codes, no matter what website or forum they are used for.  Most website or database admin you would ask would tell you the same thing.  I'm sorry if you disagree with that opinion.  Don't kill the messenger because you can't agree with the message.

It bothers me to see someone like you trying to police this forum. You have said your piece more than a couple times here. If you don't like whats going on here, then just get off of the forum, please. Save your breath and save us all from having to read your legalese.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

It seems like the admin here is finding new and creative ways to rationalize existing behavior and transactions without changing much of anything other than banning the low hanging fruit that dare to be bold enough to admit to their procurement methods and acquisitions.

Nothing has really changed.  As long as the seller admits nothing publicly it's business as usual and the rules that Theymos has drafted clearly reflect that.

It seems like you joined the forum just to start shit about this......  What makes your words so valuable? Are you a lawyer? Law enforcement?

Nope I'm not law enforcement.   However, I do object to illegal sales and distribution of login credentials and access codes, no matter what website or forum they are used for.  Most website or database admin you would ask would tell you the same thing.  I'm sorry if you disagree with that opinion.  Don't kill the messenger because you can't agree with the message.  This is a real issue that shouldn't be ignored; the longer this topic remains unaddressed without real change, the probability increases that something will be sold on this site that may have real legal consequences.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

Why is that?


I answered that in the 2nd post, but if you would prefer an abridged version I posted in this other thread.

Hey shep , first of all i will sell what i want  and 2nd my accounts or invites are not hacked or compromised in conclusion you can erase your message coz i don`t care about it .

Your accounts may not be hacked, but you are selling accounts in an unauthorized secondary market which is misuse of access.  Your account is a service account provided with provisional access to database services.  You do not own your account or the invites (access codes) you possess.  You were provided provisional access to services.   Access codes are also provided on provisional grounds that they are not sold. Attempting to sell or otherwise "making availability of" access codes that do not comply with the sites ToS is "misuse of access".   Any access by a buyer which results from an illegal sale, such as this constitutes illegal access and theft of service.


I see that you're Romanian. You realize that it's illegal for you to engage in these types of sales?
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

It seems like the admin here is finding new and creative ways to rationalize existing behavior and transactions without changing much of anything other than banning the low hanging fruit that dare to be bold enough to admit to their procurement methods and acquisitions.

Nothing has really changed.  As long as the seller admits nothing publicly it's business as usual and the rules that Theymos has drafted clearly reflect that.

It seems like you joined the forum just to start shit about this......  What makes your words so valuable? Are you a lawyer? Law enforcement?
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

It seems like the admin here is finding new and creative ways to rationalize existing behavior and transactions without changing much of anything other than banning the low hanging fruit that dare to be bold enough to admit to their procurement and acquisition methods.

Nothing has really changed.  As long as the seller admits nothing publicly it's business as usual and the rules that Theymos has drafted clearly reflect that.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

Why is that?
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
All secondary sales of service accounts or invites which employ a database and bandwidth should be observed as illegal unless explicitly permitted by the site owner.  Failing to ban secondary sales of service accounts opens the site and staff to criminal and civil liability for facilitating illegal transactions. Secondary sales refers to sales in an underlying market, which is not the same as a primary market of first availability (site owner).

But they aren't illegal, contract law is a civil matter. So far what you're doing could be "illegal", i.e. a threat.

I have not threatened anyone.  I have however bought to light the criminal and civil liability that exists from ignoring transactions of illegal sales, which so far appears to be what the staff here is advocating for.



Quote
Article 2 – Illegal access

Each Party shall adopt such legislative and other measures as may be necessary to establish as criminal offences under its domestic law, when committed intentionally, the access to the whole or any part of a computer system without right. A Party may require that the offence be committed by infringing security measures, with the intent of obtaining computer data or other dishonest intent, or in relation to a computer system that is connected to another computer system.

Could care less about ToS. It's a load of crap and won't hold in court.

You need to prove two things at the same time, that the website was hacked AND it was used for a dishonest intent. The ball lies in your court,

Here is a definition of dishonesty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishonesty


Actually prosecutions of computer fraud, access fraud, and theft of service does routinely hold up in court.  Unauthorized distribution or sales of access codes do result in jail time.  I already posted proof the previous thread and you'll find that most first world nations and even third world nations contain laws covering this activity.  Invites are access codes which if shared in an unauthorized manner are considered illegal access.  It's no different then providing login credentials.  If you want to believe something else, you're free to do so, but laws in most nations state otherwise.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 16
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.

My bad. Must have read through too quickly and misread it. Maybe the mods haven't noticed him yet? This is a very new ruling.
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1431
Selling invites is allowed, but there are some restrictions in order to prevent people from selling accounts and invites obtained through hacking. In order to sell invites or accounts to invite-only sites, you must:
selling invites doesn't make a difference.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 16
how come this guy gets to sell accounts?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cheap-tracker-invites-fuxorscenehdptpttwafflesbitmebitmetvtlsccgft-134044
- Have some history here, with more history being required for trades of invites/accounts in bulk. Or, nope, account created a week ago
- Have substantial history on reputable invite trading forums such as torrentinvites.org which prohibit selling hacked accounts. Or, none that was mentioned
- Be vouched for by someone from one of the above two categories. nope


Title says he's selling invites, which are allowed.
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1431
how come this guy gets to sell accounts?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cheap-tracker-invites-fuxorscenehdptpttwafflesbitmebitmetvtlsccgft-134044
- Have some history here, with more history being required for trades of invites/accounts in bulk. Or, nope, account created a week ago
- Have substantial history on reputable invite trading forums such as torrentinvites.org which prohibit selling hacked accounts. Or, none that was mentioned
- Be vouched for by someone from one of the above two categories. nope
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