[SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) - page 7.

PrimeNumber7

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Amazon Prime Member #7

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 07:52:52 AM

KYC

IMO, a lot of the time when a bitcoin casino is asking a customer to go through KYC, the purpose is to get their identity so the casino can go to law enforcement about actual cheating, such as hacking, or knowing the 'secret' seed in advance.

SB should disclose why they were asking the OP for his KYC information. They should also clarify as to what basis they are saying that the OP "did not pass" KYC....

Quote from: suchmoon on July 25, 2020, 09:52:40 PM

So the flag is basically invalid because the dispute is about 0.271 BTC, not 0.373 BTC as claimed in the OP. I could understand a small discrepancy but I don't think we should be supporting "written contract" flags overstated by 37%. There's probably more reason to oppose the flag than support it based on the amount alone, i.e. the claim is "at least partially false".

SB has not paid the OP the 0.101 BTC they are offering.

Most of the time, with mortgages and with rent, your lender or landlord will not accept less than the total amount due. A tenant or borrower offering a partial payment may be rejected, and this offer will not make a person owe a lower amount. The OP has not accepted a payment in the lower amount that SB is offering, and as such, he is still allegedly owed the full 0.373 BTC.

yahoo62278

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Quote from: drexlas on July 26, 2020, 05:31:39 PM

look how much victims this scam bookie make. why are they still here on the forum and active. away with them
every bookie has some problems with customers but sportsbetio and their casino site scams one after another

I cannot confirm they're actually a scam at this point, but I do think the multi account rule needs some lee way. Depends on the abuse IMO

drexlas

newbie

Activity: 22

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look how much victims this scam bookie make. why are they still here on the forum and active. away with them
every bookie has some problems with customers but sportsbetio and their casino site scams one after another

marlboroza

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Activity: 1932

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Quote from: suchmoon on July 26, 2020, 11:42:13 AM

Well, technically you could forget that you had multiple accounts if you win. Just like casinos remember to check for multiple accounts if you win.

You could but as you said, casino will check it and remind you.

Quote from: neymarjr12 on July 26, 2020, 01:18:51 PM

Then again, Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting (or breached their rules an any other way) and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

On internet forum? Yeah, they actually don't have to provide shit here.

Quote from: actmyname on July 26, 2020, 01:30:45 PM

like the rollover requirements that some casinos use to "prevent money-laundering".

That is actually stupidest excuse and rule I have ever heard, only thing which might prevent money laundering is KYC, but not selective KYC which is regular practice around here. Not related to topic but I remember there was one player who deposited $20(or was it $40?) on cloudbet, wanted to withdraw it and as he didn't wager that huge amount, cloudbet asked him KYC because of their AML policy. Lol!

Get-Paid.com

sr. member

Activity: 1842

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on July 26, 2020, 02:49:23 PM

I see the multiple accounts rule as a way for casinos to fuck players out of money without any negative repercussion. If the player is abusing giveaways/promotions by creating multiple accounts, then by all means deny his WD and show he done so. If the player has multiple accounts and has not abused anything, just made deposits and had a win, then pay the guy his money and move on.

The multiple account rule is a joke.

Exactly.
That's how it should be.

Sportsbet.io is damaging its reputation here for not doing so.

yahoo62278

legendary

Activity: 3626

Merit: 4440

I see the multiple accounts rule as a way for casinos to fuck players out of money without any negative repercussion. If the player is abusing giveaways/promotions by creating multiple accounts, then by all means deny his WD and show he done so. If the player has multiple accounts and has not abused anything, just made deposits and had a win, then pay the guy his money and move on.

The multiple account rule is a joke.

neymarjr12

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 2

Quote from: actmyname on July 26, 2020, 01:30:45 PM

Whether it's in the Terms of Conditions or not, general "no multiple accounts" rules punish players more often than anyone looking to abuse the actual site. Rather than target a symptom of a problem (i.e. multiple accounts from promotion abuse) they could just simply leave it at "don't use multiple accounts to abuse giveaways and promotions". The sweeping general term lets them do shit like this. What if a player, in one situation, comes back to the site after a year forgetting their previous account details? How about if they lose access to the password and email of an account? Any number of scenarios could be arbitrarily created, but that's not the real point: it's ToS like this, like the rollover requirements that some casinos use to "prevent money-laundering".

Masquerading as rules to prevent abuse against a minority of players, they in turn are used against every player.

Regarding "abusing giveaways and promotions", I actually haven't received any of those from Sportsbet. The only thing I remember I had an odds Boost on couple of bets (when your odds change by several % up), that's it.
This again raises even more questions why they decided to disable me without providing any reasoning.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Whether it's in the Terms of Conditions or not, general "no multiple accounts" rules punish players more often than anyone looking to abuse the actual site. Rather than target a symptom of a problem (i.e. multiple accounts from promotion abuse) they could just simply leave it at "don't use multiple accounts to abuse giveaways and promotions". The sweeping general term lets them do shit like this. What if a player, in one situation, comes back to the site after a year forgetting their previous account details? How about if they lose access to the password and email of an account? Any number of scenarios could be arbitrarily created, but that's not the real point: it's ToS like this, like the rollover requirements that some casinos use to "prevent money-laundering".

Masquerading as rules to prevent abuse against a minority of players, they in turn are used against every player.

neymarjr12

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 2

Quote from: suchmoon on July 26, 2020, 01:06:02 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

There is point about multi accounting in the contract (it is obviously forbidden).
But there is no clear information about the procedure of investigation, i.e. they accuse me of multi accounting (again sorry for repeating, without any proof), I claim that this is my first and only account and ready to provide any documents to support my claim - if both parties don't change their view, the question goes beyond the contract, somewhere in the field of common law.

https://sportsbet.io/about/terms-and-conditions

Quote

17. Cancellations, Suspensions and Closure
17.1. Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
[...]
(vi) we determine that you are breaching any term of these Terms and Conditions;
[...]
17.2. You acknowledge that Sportsbet.io shall be the final decision-maker as to whether you have violated rules, terms or conditions in a manner that results in suspension or permanent barring from participation in our Websites.

Seems quite clear to me. Is it fair? Maybe not. Is it lawful? I don't know - talk to a lawyer. But I don't think you have a case for a type 3 flag here on this forum.

Then again, Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting (or breached their rules an any other way) and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 01:07:46 PM

"Sportsbet.io prides itself on its secure and trustworthy betting service^[1], with withdrawal times of around 1.5 minutes^[2]- amongst the fastest in the industry!"

[1] How can a casino be trustworthy if they don't pay their player's winnings?
[2] OP's winnings didn't arrive in ~1.5 minutes. How long it has been now?

[2] More than a month now mate Embarrassed

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

mindrust

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Quote from: suchmoon on July 26, 2020, 12:40:10 PM

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:30:06 PM

The universal written contract we have states that the casino agrees to pay your winnings which sportsbet.io fails at miserably.

Quote it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cfnp-sportsbetio-signature-campaign-up-to-01-btcweek-4509006.

"Sportsbet.io prides itself on its secure and trustworthy betting service^[1], with withdrawal times of around 1.5 minutes^[2]- amongst the fastest in the industry!"

[1] How can a casino be trustworthy if they don't pay their player's winnings?
[2] OP's winnings didn't arrive in ~1.5 minutes. How long it has been now?

I am all burned out. I tried to do the right thing, the rest is on the shoulders of the DT members. I was going to do spend my time on some other valuable shit and this ate my all day. Adios.

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: ?? on ??

There is point about multi accounting in the contract (it is obviously forbidden).
But there is no clear information about the procedure of investigation, i.e. they accuse me of multi accounting (again sorry for repeating, without any proof), I claim that this is my first and only account and ready to provide any documents to support my claim - if both parties don't change their view, the question goes beyond the contract, somewhere in the field of common law.

https://sportsbet.io/about/terms-and-conditions

Quote

17. Cancellations, Suspensions and Closure
17.1. Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
[...]
(vi) we determine that you are breaching any term of these Terms and Conditions;
[...]
17.2. You acknowledge that Sportsbet.io shall be the final decision-maker as to whether you have violated rules, terms or conditions in a manner that results in suspension or permanent barring from participation in our Websites.

Seems quite clear to me. Is it fair? Maybe not. Is it lawful? I don't know - talk to a lawyer. But I don't think you have a case for a type 3 flag here on this forum.

neymarjr12

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 2

Quote from: Use Your Brain on July 26, 2020, 12:15:40 PM

failing kyc and multi accounting isnt good enough for you apparently

Prove that I did those.

Quote from: suchmoon on July 26, 2020, 12:26:33 PM

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

ToC is not the law.

But that's the written contract referred by the flag that points to this thread. If Sportsbet broke the law then the OP can sue them but as far as trust system is concerned we shouldn't be saying that a written contract has been violated when we disagree with the terms of the contract. Lots of deals conducted on this forum may be not 100% lawful in all jurisdictions (shark loaning for example) but we have come to a consensus, or so I thought, that we still treat them as contracts for the purposes of the flag system.

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

This is one of those similarities with the livecoin's thread that I was talking about earlier.

IIRC Livecoin flag is type 2 (implied contract).

Quote from: neymarjr12 on July 26, 2020, 12:13:40 PM

Is there a point in the contract where Sportsbet can disable an account and seize the winnings without providing any proof?

You have a Sportsbet account, I don't. Enlighten us.

There is point about multi accounting in the contract (it is obviously forbidden).
But there is no clear information about the procedure of investigation, i.e. they accuse me of multi accounting (again sorry for repeating, without any proof), I claim that this is my first and only account and ready to provide any documents to support my claim - if both parties don't change their view, the question goes beyond the contract, somewhere in the field of common law.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:30:06 PM

The universal written contract we have states that the casino agrees to pay your winnings which sportsbet.io fails at miserably.

Quote it.

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:30:06 PM

You play in a casino not to leave your winnings on the table when you are told to by the casino manager?

Do you?

Go on, say "I do".

Straw man / loaded question. Let's stick to the contract debate.

mindrust

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Quote from: suchmoon on July 26, 2020, 12:26:33 PM

But that's the written contract referred by the flag that points to this thread. If Sportsbet broke the law then the OP can sue them but as far as trust system is concerned we shouldn't be saying that a written contract has been violated when we disagree with the terms of the contract. Lots of deals conducted on this forum may be not 100% lawful in all jurisdictions (shark loaning for example) but we have come to a consensus, or so I thought, that we still treat them as contracts for the purposes of the flag system.

The universal written contract we have states that the casino agrees to pay your winnings which sportsbet.io fails at miserably.

You play in a casino not to leave your winnings on the table when you are told to by the casino manager?

Do you?

Go on, say "I do".

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

ToC is not the law.

But that's the written contract referred by the flag that points to this thread. If Sportsbet broke the law then the OP can sue them but as far as trust system is concerned we shouldn't be saying that a written contract has been violated when we disagree with the terms of the contract. Lots of deals conducted on this forum may be not 100% lawful in all jurisdictions (shark loaning for example) but we have come to a consensus, or so I thought, that we still treat them as contracts for the purposes of the flag system.

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

This is one of those similarities with the livecoin's thread that I was talking about earlier.

IIRC Livecoin flag is type 2 (implied contract).

Quote from: neymarjr12 on July 26, 2020, 12:13:40 PM

Is there a point in the contract where Sportsbet can disable an account and seize the winnings without providing any proof?

You have a Sportsbet account, I don't. Enlighten us.

mindrust

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Quote from: Use Your Brain on July 26, 2020, 12:15:40 PM

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:02:47 PM

I don't buy it.

Fuck KYC.

freebitco.in has no KYC and they are killing it.

No offense but you cant say "Fuck KYC" but are being paid by Playbetr who asks for KYC.
makes u sound like a oh i dont know, maybe a hypocrit

I say whatever the fuck I want, if playbetr doesn't like what I said, they are free to remove me from their campaign.

Quote from: Use Your Brain on July 26, 2020, 12:15:40 PM

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

ToC is not the law.

maybe not the law but you agree to it when you decide to deposit your coins there

ToC is not a license to scam.

Quote from: Use Your Brain on July 26, 2020, 12:15:40 PM

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

Sportsbet.io should just pay his peanuts and be done with it. If they cannot pay, they should ~~tell~~ explain us the reason why.

failing kyc and multi accounting isnt good enough for you apparently

These accusations are baseless for now.

And, post from your main account please.

Use Your Brain

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Activity: 14

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Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:02:47 PM

I don't buy it.

Fuck KYC.

freebitco.in has no KYC and they are killing it.

No offense but you cant say "Fuck KYC" but are being paid by Playbetr who asks for KYC.
makes u sound like a oh i dont know, maybe a hypocrit

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

ToC is not the law.

maybe not the law but you agree to it when you decide to deposit your coins there

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 12:09:56 PM

Sportsbet.io should just pay his peanuts and be done with it. If they cannot pay, they should ~~tell~~ explain us the reason why.

failing kyc and multi accounting isnt good enough for you apparently

neymarjr12

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: suchmoon on July 26, 2020, 12:03:22 PM

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 11:45:44 AM

So you are completely OK with sportsbet.io's actions that is, seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims and asking for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

This definitely is NOT the way how a trusted/reputable casino should act. "to save peanuts."

I'm not ok with KYC and anti-multi-accounting rules in general and I've already stated so earlier in the thread. That doesn't mean there is a written contract violation here.

Quote from: neymarjr12 on July 26, 2020, 11:49:24 AM

So then Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

Not the point. According to the T&Cs you presumably agreed to, you shouldn't be claiming that they violated a written contract unless there is some separate contract that you signed. Is there?

Is there a point in the contract where Sportsbet can disable an account and seize the winnings without providing any proof?

mindrust

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Quote from: suchmoon on July 26, 2020, 12:03:22 PM

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 11:45:44 AM

So you are completely OK with sportsbet.io's actions that is, seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims and asking for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

This definitely is NOT the way how a trusted/reputable casino should act. "to save peanuts."

I'm not ok with KYC and anti-multi-accounting rules in general and I've already stated so earlier in the thread. That doesn't mean there is a written contract violation here.

Quote from: neymarjr12 on July 26, 2020, 11:49:24 AM

So then Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

Not the point. According to the T&Cs you presumably agreed to, you shouldn't be claiming that they violated a written contract unless there is some separate contract that you signed. Is there?

ToC is not the law. This is one of those similarities with the livecoin's thread that I was talking about earlier.

Sportsbet.io should just pay his peanuts and be done with it. If they cannot pay, they should ~~tell~~ explain us the reason why.

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: mindrust on July 26, 2020, 11:45:44 AM

So you are completely OK with sportsbet.io's actions that is, seizing the player's winnings without showing any proofs for their claims and asking for KYC even though they were going to throw the documents right to the trash can.

This definitely is NOT the way how a trusted/reputable casino should act. "to save peanuts."

I'm not ok with KYC and anti-multi-accounting rules in general and I've already stated so earlier in the thread. That doesn't mean there is a written contract violation here.

Quote from: neymarjr12 on July 26, 2020, 11:49:24 AM

So then Sportsbet can disable ALL of the accounts on the platform, claim that everyone was multi accounting and don't provide ANY proof to anyone, right?

Not the point. According to the T&Cs you presumably agreed to, you shouldn't be claiming that they violated a written contract unless there is some separate contract that you signed. Is there?

Topic: [SCAM] Sportsbet.io (Withholding funds) - page 7. (Read 4684 times)