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Topic: [SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 77. (Read 1289635 times)

member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
As you sow, so shall you reap.
Daemon hasn't released a single proof of their work, so we can't say. Seems more like a scam DAO because of that very reason, time will tell the truth.
On the other hand what we can tell is that Ethereum isn't privacy-centric.

What makes SDC unique is the way you do business, vendor and buyer put up an insurance amount. If they don't perform as expected, then the isurance deposits are lost. We make scamming unprofitable. The Tor browser has been hit with series of serious vulnerabilities because Mozilla is a very complex structure with loads of attack vectors. Every project has had its fair share of vulnerabilities but our structure is way simpler and that automatically makes it more secure. The biggest security concerns resides in filtering the data properly before displaying it. Our currency allows for anonymous transactions, something not achieved by Bitcoin. We do however support Bitcoin for transactions to and from fiat because the userbase of Bitcoin is way higher. We have decentralized structure which can operate on top of Tor when you take proper precautions, making it impossible to figure out who is who.

But Blazin8888 already knows all of that, that is why it is silly. The information is available on our docs and website but we'll make a comparision chat with alternative platforms in the near future.






Thanks for the answer, I heard of Daemeon, but didn't quite know where it stood. Having a comparison chart would be great for people to know the difference between these other privacy focused darkmarkets/altcoins.
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 15
Eat, sleep, code, repeat.
Daemon hasn't released a single proof of their work, so we can't say. Seems more like a scam DAO because of that very reason, time will tell the truth.
On the other hand what we can tell is that Ethereum isn't privacy-centric.

What makes SDC unique is the way you do business, vendor and buyer put up an insurance amount. If they don't perform as expected, then the isurance deposits are lost. We make scamming unprofitable. The Tor browser has been hit with series of serious vulnerabilities because Mozilla is a very complex structure with loads of attack vectors. Every project has had its fair share of vulnerabilities but our structure is way simpler and that automatically makes it more secure. The biggest security concerns resides in filtering the data properly before displaying it. Our currency allows for anonymous transactions, something not achieved by Bitcoin. We do however support Bitcoin for transactions to and from fiat because the userbase of Bitcoin is way higher. We have decentralized structure which can operate on top of Tor when you take proper precautions, making it impossible to figure out who is who.

But Blazin8888 already knows all of that, that is why it is silly. The information is available on our docs and website but we'll make a comparision chat with alternative platforms in the near future.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
As you sow, so shall you reap.
With projects like Daemon coming out on the ETH platform what advantages does SDC have over those platforms?

What advantage does SDC market have for vendors over current DNMs on TOR browser?

Does it offer Vendors any more privacy or insurance than your typical DNM?



- Thank you

LOL! They were a tad silly blazin hahah c'mon you know the answers to those...

No, I don't think the questions were silly. I actually think they are some well thought out questions. I am curious to know myself.

Can you answer them?
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1002
Pecvniate obedivnt omnia.
With projects like Daemon coming out on the ETH platform what advantages does SDC have over those platforms?

What advantage does SDC market have for vendors over current DNMs on TOR browser?

Does it offer Vendors any more privacy or insurance than your typical DNM?



- Thank you

LOL! They were a tad silly blazin hahah c'mon you know the answers to those...
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
Avatars are overrated.
With projects like Daemon coming out on the ETH platform what advantages does SDC have over those platforms?

What advantage does SDC market have for vendors over current DNMs on TOR browser?

Does it offer Vendors any more privacy or insurance than your typical DNM?



- Thank you
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
With projects like Daemon coming out on the ETH platform what advantages does SDC have over those platforms?

What advantage does SDC market have for vendors over current DNMs on TOR browser?

Does it offer Vendors any more privacy or insurance than your typical DNM?



- Thank you
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 15
Eat, sleep, code, repeat.
Kewde, thanks for the info on the double ratchet, I had not seen that one before. And its great to know how you send out broadcasts. Yes I've been meaning to look into doing that, but like you said I've got priorities too. Lots of stuff left to code.

Have you investigated moving AWAY from OpenSSL? Perhaps its best to find a different library or write one. I've heard some conspiracy theories about how all the encryption we use was reverse engineered. The prime number pairs were reverse engineered or something.

This sort of led me to look into Primecoin as a way to find some pairs of primes for making better cryptography.

Also, how do you salt your passwords? I use mouse movements that are recorded early into your session. Although I heard that all random number generators are compromised and really wondered if this was after the fact. This makes me question if my salting is trivial because I've yet to look at how random numbers are made in my dependencies.

I think quantum computers are a hoax. However, this doesn't mean that cryptography shouldn't be improved and seen some proposals for more advanced methods of public key cryptography.Then again, its not a priority for me to work on that since I've got other things to code.

Also, one way you can prevent a "rich spammer" is make it more expensive the more they send. So not a linear function. Then you can trace backwards addresses so they can't just split one level and get a cheaper fee. Also, you can force it to be through a single input and not allow them to combine large amounts of keys or outputs forcing it to come through a single address or limit to two to three addresses or two to three inputs. You can combine it with similar anti-ddos protocols.

However perhaps the network still has a flooding problem which in my belief has nothing to do with time lock spamming. Simply transaction spamming is a problem. In the time locked scenario at least they are locked for a period of time. But if a party just spams transactions they get a very similar effect. The reason for using time locks is to get approval for sending messages in the Bitmessage system without being forced to do POW. So its like one protocol using a second protocol to pre-approve its traffic. You can set the fee high per kilobyte if needed. As I know that even sending 25kb in Bitmessage can require a lot of POW.

So yeah a rich spammer can be prevented this way, and I highly doubt someone would take the time to carefully fragment and disassociate accounts. Plus for each account they spam with, there is still a lock. You can increase the fee per account the more they send. Since its time locked, they get it back! So no big deal right? They just burn to 6a time locked back to revive to their address within 24-48 hours per kilobyte.

And as for ZKP i have not honestly looked into ring signatures yet. As I have presumed that Bitcoin is already pretty anonymous. I think the biggest thing to tackle is IP addresses.

Honestly, OpenSSL is one of the most secure libraries out there. There are always conspiracy theories out there claiming basepoints are compromised even before the heartbleed bug.
I think that was a big punch to the face of OpenSSL. The underlying EC cryptography of OpenSSL is throroughly vetted by experts, we trust it as it is the most used library across the web.

No idea about the salting of passwords, no clue.

Microsoft recently released a SIDH library, supersingular isogeny diffie hellman. It's resistant against large scale quantum computers, and switching of to it shouldn't be too hard.
I don't trust Microsoft either, but hey it's open source and I presume it will be vetted. Worst case scenario the base point is compromised and we can pick a new one, fully secure again Smiley
Quantum computing is a reality, I've studied Quantum Electronic Dynamics (QED) and it's a fresh new field with lots of innovation opportunities.

That's moving away from being an elegant solution, I think the higher the fee locked, the higher the priority is a better approach.

We weren't fond either of the PoW approach because we wanted to support mobile wallets. PoS all the way! We wanted to reward the people running wallets 24/7 so that's why we added it as fee to transactions, make sense money flows to those people. But you're more fond of a free messaging platform which is cool.
legendary
Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
Kewde, thanks for the info on the double ratchet, I had not seen that one before. And its great to know how you send out broadcasts. Yes I've been meaning to look into doing that, but like you said I've got priorities too. Lots of stuff left to code.

Have you investigated moving AWAY from OpenSSL? Perhaps its best to find a different library or write one. I've heard some conspiracy theories about how all the encryption we use was reverse engineered. The prime number pairs were reverse engineered or something.

This sort of led me to look into Primecoin as a way to find some pairs of primes for making better cryptography.

Also, how do you salt your passwords? I use mouse movements that are recorded early into your session. Although I heard that all random number generators are compromised and really wondered if this was after the fact. This makes me question if my salting is trivial because I've yet to look at how random numbers are made in my dependencies.

I think quantum computers are a hoax. However, this doesn't mean that cryptography shouldn't be improved and seen some proposals for more advanced methods of public key cryptography.Then again, its not a priority for me to work on that since I've got other things to code.

Also, one way you can prevent a "rich spammer" is make it more expensive the more they send. So not a linear function. Then you can trace backwards addresses so they can't just split one level and get a cheaper fee. Also, you can force it to be through a single input and not allow them to combine large amounts of keys or outputs forcing it to come through a single address or limit to two to three addresses or two to three inputs. You can combine it with similar anti-ddos protocols.

However perhaps the network still has a flooding problem which in my belief has nothing to do with time lock spamming. Simply transaction spamming is a problem. In the time locked scenario at least they are locked for a period of time. But if a party just spams transactions they get a very similar effect. The reason for using time locks is to get approval for sending messages in the Bitmessage system without being forced to do POW. So its like one protocol using a second protocol to pre-approve its traffic. You can set the fee high per kilobyte if needed. As I know that even sending 25kb in Bitmessage can require a lot of POW.

So yeah a rich spammer can be prevented this way, and I highly doubt someone would take the time to carefully fragment and disassociate accounts. Plus for each account they spam with, there is still a lock. You can increase the fee per account the more they send. Since its time locked, they get it back! So no big deal right? They just burn to 6a time locked back to revive to their address within 24-48 hours per kilobyte.

And as for ZKP i have not honestly looked into ring signatures yet. As I have presumed that Bitcoin is already pretty anonymous. I think the biggest thing to tackle is IP addresses.
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 15
Eat, sleep, code, repeat.
There's nothing to debate. I'm an ancap at heart, so private property is sacred to me. You would violate my rights by hijacking my internet. It's not my ego talking but my conscience. To me, cracking someone's encrypted connection is wrong, even if they broadcast it in your space. Rights are rights, and technology is not somehow immune to ethical behaviour even if you're clever enough to manipulate it. Your old boss sounds like a curmudgeon and couldn't tolerate a subordinate telling him what to do. Been there. Difference is, I would respect your experience.

Shadow is definitely new and exciting technology, and it needs to be presented in a serious and professional manner. I believe discussing how to crack someone's wifi on this open board is off topic and harmful to the goals of this project. That is all.

That is an interesting stance, often taken by neoclassical economists.

However there is some called "res nullius" which by definition is something not owned by anyone that is even in some cases yet to be claimed. The internet's open source projects are free lunch to some degree.

There is a revolution on it's way. Energy and electricity is basically free if you properly harness the suns energy. I'm merely talking about energy itself, not the underlying resources to actually do it.
Same applies to Tor, the service itself is free of charge to use.

At the core everything in fact finds its origins in being "free". The plastic you have in your computer is made of oil, which was freely available in the ground. Yes it took labour and other materials but life itself is a free gift and the materials were also freely available at first. You don't see birds paying do you?

We as humans invented the idea that nothing is free, because if it were we'd all be ruining it like we do with all the common goods. The cycle of life works well and that's why things in nature are often "free", the bird eating the worms will eventually die. It will always become a zero-sum, its body will decompose into molecules and start the foundation of new life.

In man made things like plastic and economy in general: there is no thing such as zero-sum, we take free things and change their structure and siphon it out of it's natural cycle. For example decomposing plastic takes way longer because of our actions to it, we take it out of the loop for a longer period of time.

I think internet should be a basic right, information is key to self deployment.

---

Back to hacking WiFi, I openly support the movement. If your WiFi is vulnerable then it is you own damn fault. This mindset is very effective in incentivizing people to improve security, you are the sole being to blame for poor security on your devices if and only if the attack vector is well researched and documentated.  Getting into the attackers perspective makes learning security a lot more fun, so if people want to learn about securing their devices, join our slack and we'll help you hack them. I'd love to have people do online workshops on radio hacking like WiFi and GPRS. We openly invite people to try and attack/hack our network it is what makes us stronger.
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 15
Eat, sleep, code, repeat.
Okay so staking goes like this and its not limited to multisig, it just lets you have more control over staking in general. In this case you put the blocksignature into an output with 6a

Check for a block once per 16 seconds (more often makes no sense) you check your inputs/coins with:
checkkernel [{"hash1":n1},{"hash2":n2},...] which usually returns { "result":false }
or when you are lucky to create new block { "result":true, "kernel":{"hash":"hash", "n":n, "time":time}, "blocktemplate":"hex", "blocktemplatefees":fees, "blocksignkey":"hex" }

Then Halo creates coinstake tx, using info returned by checkkernel, as follows:
create empty tx set time to kernel time add the kernel input if you want add more inputs (this is a bit tricky so don't for now)

Now we need to know reward, so call getstakesubsidy coinstake blocktemplatefees
Continue to build coinstake add output to empty script, 0 coins add output to script "6a + blocksignkey", 0 coins
add outputs to your addr which is staking fees+staked coins+all your inputs
you can even send outputs to voting addresses if you like

Last step you call submitstakeblock blocktemplate, {coinstake} It will add coinstake to block template, recalculate merkle tree, sign block, and announce it to the network

Here is my example on BLK:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/blk/tx.dws?6ef2849263110c5c6dc6443766be883ea1798851cba45ad6eda9903ba283762c.htm

I constructed that one with pyblackcointools although i realize your code is in c++  the theory is the same

Cold staking allows you to stake from multisignatue asynchronously signing. So think "staking device" or "staking with two computers". This would make it harder for keyloggers to get your coins because
there is one key on each computer


Sweet, thanks for the explanation. I will pitch it to Ryno! We've recently implemented some blackcoin code to get this working.
We're looking into a fitting solution that allows anyone to open a multisig wallet through in their contact list. We'll be using our messaging system to transfer the public key(s) and might even send the transactions through it. Group transactions are also possible. But we haven't really started any of that, still working on tasks with a higher priority.

Bitmessage 2 day resending rule is modified by editing class_singleCleaner.py line 94
(216000 max age of object 60 hours) was being multiplied exponentially which can cause gaps and lose messages now we have a linear system

So that is how you fix that. I agree for acknowledgement, your fix is obviously superior. Very simple and elegant concept. Also consider you can just send a public key with each message. In Halo Bob and Alice exchange Halo public keys and they immediately have fully double encrypted messages. Like PGP. I should remind you that Tor exit nodes are currently controlled by nefarious forces. I've heard these attacks are not trivial and some people think Tors security was never jeopardized. However, I think Bitmessage is harder to attack than you are thinking. This assumes more nodes will start to use Bitmessage and I think they will. Ever since I started on markets, I've seen my connections to the network go up, perhaps from Halo users or just a general renewed interest in it. I remember sending many messages to Aetheros asking him to fix the message header mutation attacks that was crippling the network. Very happy he updated it, I've heard a few others also asked him and it prevented it from being abandonware.
I'd like to say that after some more thought we'll be using the HMAC instead of hash of the message. Way more efficient Wink
I think you aren't efficiently using that extra public key. If you are going to go the route of an extra key, then use the double ratchet that Signal made. We'll be implementing this to support forward secrecy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm
https://whispersystems.org/blog/advanced-ratcheting/
https://github.com/trevp/double_ratchet/wiki

I should remind you that Tor exit nodes are currently controlled by nefarious forces. I've heard these attacks are not trivial and some people think Tors security was never jeopardized. However, I think Bitmessage is harder to attack than you are thinking. This assumes more nodes will start to use Bitmessage and I think they will. Ever since I started on markets, I've seen my connections to the network go up, perhaps from Halo users or just a general renewed interest in it. I remember sending many messages to Aetheros asking him to fix the message header mutation attacks that was crippling the network. Very happy he updated it, I've heard a few others also asked him and it prevented it from being abandonware.
There are some simple remedies for countering the attacks on BitMessage. The first and most obvious choice is to never ever make traffic go through exit nodes. Bad for business.
On the other hand I haven't really studied BitMessage in depth, only our message format aligns with them, everything else is different.

By the way, is your version of Bitmessage in Python? Do you have your own fork/github? My version of Bitmessage is not online. But I only changed message resending and also made the datadir automatically local since I store everything in C:\BlackHalo including the data files of the blockchain and Bitmessage.

Anyways the security is still pretty tricky to compromise, when there is 100s of nodes on the network, messages will be passed from node to node, if all 100 of them are using the channel for markets, it becomes very hard to find out who the originator of a message really even is. Especially because they can send from the channel to the channel. So its like everyone is shouting in an open forum
ShadowChat is fully written in C++ and depends on the OpenSSL libraries for its cryptographic mutations. It does not however have a separate repo. The system is indeed very resilient to attacks, the confirmation attack can easily be spotted if you program your system to do so. Make sure to add a settings that allows users to turn it off.


I was considering using this for broadcasting transactions to the Bitcoin network as well. Instead of broadcasting directly to Bitcoin nodes, send the raw TX to Bitmessage and let them do it. This makes it harder to tell the originating IP address of the Bitcoin transaction broadcast.
We use the same approach because of the enhanced privacy it offers.

You can combine Bitmessage with Tor. And you are right, that paper is the one I was citing.
Although you may be correct in thinking that IP addresses could be triangulated in Bitmessage.
Implementing a set of trusted nodes and cleaning out any address that isn't trusted on reboot can prevent some attacks but do weaken the decentralized structure. Trade-offs one has to make themselves I assume.


My solution to this I think you will find is awesome and elegant. You force nodes to lock funds per kilobyte using checklocktimeverify.
So Bob wants to send a message to Alice, his message is 100 KB

Instead of some crazy POW, he is asked by the protocol to lock for example 1 satoshi per byte (of course we can increase this or have it based on some global rate set by a custodial wallet)
So he send the coins checklocktimeverify for lets say 24 hours. The coins first go to 6a or the bitcoineater(burn address)... then you "revive" them like a zombie.
So output is 6a checklocktimeverify 24 hours to (your address)

The network can confirm his coins are indeed locked to himself of the blockchain forgoing POW entirely.

I dont have the time to implement this, but would love to see it done because it fixes an obvious problem with Bitmessage. The only drawback is this might make main-net nodes exclude you but perhaps you can still do it on the main-net giving the option to use both methods and ignore POW when using POL (proof of lock?)

Ahhh, that is indeed a good way to go. We're using a slightly different version, it involves actually spending the coins as a fee for a transaction. I really like the idea of your system more to be honest, but the only draw back is that a very rich attacker could still perform it. You'd have to design the timeframe of it so that it would take large amounts of coins to successfully keep a constant stress on the network whilst not having to punish small users. We don't charge anything at the moment for messaging, but we do however plan to have a free limit so messages under say X kb are free but their priority is lower than paid ones. So if a spammer does decide to spam the network, those with a valid payment are the ones that get to cut the line.


Lastly, I spent a lot of time trying to understand zero proof. It was only this amazing little paper that made me "get it". Its called "How to explain zero knowledge to your children".
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mkowalcz/628.pdf

So by your ACTIONS you prove you knew a secret.

Applying this in a meaningful way is the part that I'm not sure of yet. If I prove I know my own age without telling you my age, can this be used for addresses as well? How?

I heard a rumor that you used zknips? But then I heard you had only used ring signatures. Then i heard all kinds of fud. I'm not sure what was true and what wasn't. In any case it would be interesting to know if you guys actually use zero knowledge in your code base? And how did you apply it in a useful way? I really could not understand zerocoins pouring and minting method... and I re-read the paper like 10 times.
We use NIZKPs, Bitcoin also uses ZKPs, asymetric key encryption is pretty much a "zero knowledge proof". It boils down to this: when you sign a message with secret private key s, and you give someone your public key p. He or she can then verify that you have a secret key s for a given p without having to reveal it. We use traceable ring signatures, which is a scheme with NIZKPs at its core, they are basically the same thing. I hope that clears the air.

I haven't read the Zerocoin paper yet, but it seems like they'll have to battle with some big issues.

I have no clue what you ment with applying it to addresses lol.
legendary
Activity: 1214
Merit: 1000
Never compromise your standards!
On another note,

It seems that the top SDC wallets have been moving alot of funds this week. Is it known to who they belong? None of those wallets is staking.

Do they know something I don't?  Grin

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84516.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84624.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84743.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?81316.htm

Staking is cool, but anytime you have a hot wallet you run the risk of being hacked. The larger the wallet, the larger the risk, and the bigger the target painted on that account. If you look at all the exchanges that have been hacked, you can see why they keep the bulk of their funds in cold wallets. Don't get me wrong, if you follow basic security measures it is extremely unlikely you will lose any coins. But there is definitely more peace of mind in storing your funds offline.
full member
Activity: 200
Merit: 100
On another note,

It seems that the top SDC wallets have been moving alot of funds this week. Is it known to who they belong? None of those wallets is staking.

Do they know something I don't?  Grin

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84516.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84624.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84743.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?81316.htm
Hmm does seem odd.. Prob just cycling coins
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
On another note,

It seems that the top SDC wallets have been moving alot of funds this week. Is it known to who they belong? None of those wallets is staking.

Do they know something I don't?  Grin

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84516.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84624.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?84743.htm
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/sdc/address.dws?81316.htm
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
I have a problem with my SDC staking wallet, it is running on a rented VPS. I forgot to pay the bill, so the machine got shut off. When I got it back up again a few hours later, the SDC wallet is stuck on 99,85% sync.
It has full connection, but the syncing doesn't complete. I stake diffrent coins on there aswell, but the issue only applies to the SDC wallet.

I've had this problem before, a -rewindchain command didn't fix this either. Any other methods? I really don't want to sync the entire chain all over again.

Thanks!


Edit:

Nvm, rewindchain command did fix it this time!

Still not sure why this error occurs though.
full member
Activity: 225
Merit: 100

But that's not free internet. That's hijacking someone else's paid connection, and they could be penalized for whatever you download or if they exceed bandwidth caps. Sorry, it's wrong.

Nothing in life is free. Tor is a donated service that someone pays for. Growing food requires seeds, land and labour. Even free email and cloud services demand you sell your privacy. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone always pays. Maidsafe attempts at a service in the most equitable way -- user pays as he goes. No banks involved, no hidden agendas. Definitely in the spirit of decentralized cryptocurrencies.
I wasn't having an ethics debate. Fact is that in real life someone could use a Nexus 5 or even an old Nokia n900 to run evil twin to get on anyone's network. I was elaborating and explaining how we have signals flying all around and getting an ack back is easier than ever. Don't be so sensitive, it's only technology. Your sensitivity reminds me of my old boss though. As soon as I explained how dangerous it is sending unencrypted emails with customers ssn's and how easy it was to break his wep encrypted non-segregated wifi (in 2015 lol) could pose a threat to his customer database or even when I told him that metasploit could easily switch any customer accessible computer within the network into an attack vector since he refused to update or even setup GPO correctly... Anyways he fired me because of his ego (said I make things "difficult"). Do not let your ego control your grasp of technology or make you emotional about your lack of understanding of it. I do appreciate your post though.

There's nothing to debate. I'm an ancap at heart, so private property is sacred to me. You would violate my rights by hijacking my internet. It's not my ego talking but my conscience. To me, cracking someone's encrypted connection is wrong, even if they broadcast it in your space. Rights are rights, and technology is not somehow immune to ethical behaviour even if you're clever enough to manipulate it. Your old boss sounds like a curmudgeon and couldn't tolerate a subordinate telling him what to do. Been there. Difference is, I would respect your experience.

Shadow is definitely new and exciting technology, and it needs to be presented in a serious and professional manner. I believe discussing how to crack someone's wifi on this open board is off topic and harmful to the goals of this project. That is all.
legendary
Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044

...Tor is free, if people think its compromised just rewrite it and make it better and people will use it.

OK, you go ahead and do that now. You work for free, right?  Cheesy

Tor is not free. It gives that appearance on the surface because it still operates on the hobby level. You have enough people who run tor nodes just because they think it's a cool thing to do, and those people are drawn from the same types who use tor so it stays somewhat in balance.

Now what happens when tor becomes popular among users who have no hobby interest in supporting the network? Let's say all financial institutions started using it to protect their transmissions. How is this going to be "free" for them? MAID (as I understand it) is just a barter token which ensures you have to provide resources, or pay someone else to do it in your place, if you consume resources.

Crypto isn't free either, certainly not the staking coins. Those who do not burn the power needed to stake face the devaluation of their assets due to inflation. Those who do it are rewarded by getting more than their fair share of the inflation.

Before crypto the open source community was absolutely filled with people who worked for free. Labors of love. Sure open source occasionally has projects that profit but that is absolutely the exception, not the rule. Nobody gets into open source because they want to make millions. They get into it because they have an idea usually.

Also, yes I work for free. I got into crypto to make Halo, double deposit escrow as most people here already know the story. I made some funds on the side investing in altcoins... not as much as I should have. Its been several years now and I only worked one paid project where the people who started it kept the funds they raised for themselves and never spent a penny supporting it and then tried to blame me for it (adding insult to injury). Of course I still work on all my projects seeing them to completion.

So I've worked for free ever since that project as well, since no new money is coming in. So 1st 1.5 years free, then one project. And now I manage BitHalo, BlackHalo and Bitbay completely alone. There is no other dev, no marketing team, just occasional volunteers and I pay people sometimes for sites or community stuff.

My goal is to finish the projects, not to profit. The funds are totally irrelevant to me. Wouldn't care even if I lost money doing it. Just want to finish what I started. My goal is to popularize double deposit escrow. And this is why I was happy to see Shadow adopt it and came by to say hello on this thread in the first place.


As for the other comment above about the collapse of the american dream. I agree money is not corrupt by nature. The idea is a pure concept. But charging interest on money is what causes its corruption. And of course, belief propagation, propaganda which controls minds and convinces everyone to acquiesce to those in power. Giving a piece of paper value that of course they can print unlimited quantities of. (especially electronic off balance sheet transactions in the tune of double digit trillions per year)

This is why I'm making a pegging tool that can inflate and deflate to put an end to the speculation... allowing even low volume currencies to deflate and protect their value, even increasing it without the need of a market maker.
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 500

...Tor is free, if people think its compromised just rewrite it and make it better and people will use it.

OK, you go ahead and do that now. You work for free, right?  Cheesy

Tor is not free. It gives that appearance on the surface because it still operates on the hobby level. You have enough people who run tor nodes just because they think it's a cool thing to do, and those people are drawn from the same types who use tor so it stays somewhat in balance.

Now what happens when tor becomes popular among users who have no hobby interest in supporting the network? Let's say all financial institutions started using it to protect their transmissions. How is this going to be "free" for them? MAID (as I understand it) is just a barter token which ensures you have to provide resources, or pay someone else to do it in your place, if you consume resources.

Crypto isn't free either, certainly not the staking coins. Those who do not burn the power needed to stake face the devaluation of their assets due to inflation. Those who do it are rewarded by getting more than their fair share of the inflation.
legendary
Activity: 1214
Merit: 1000
Never compromise your standards!
There is of course dishes that scan and you don't have to hijack, many places give free wifi like starbucks.

But people forget the air is free. Just get a flashed phone. 3g and 4g is usually blocked on the phone.

And although I agree, planting needs seeds there is no free lunch. Yes we need to "breathe" to stay alive but come on. This is 2016, most things should be free. Tesla proved energy was free and could come right out the ground. Water can be taken out of the air. Homes can be 3d printed from dirt.

People need to start realizing we are being held back by wasting our time and energy on things that should not be paid services because there are superior technologies at our disposal.

Example, if I had a set of solar panels and I produced 10 times what I needed for my home, why not give it to my neighbors for free? What if I produced a billion times what I needed? People try to slap a dollar value on everything and that is another reason I don't like MAID. Believe it or not, there was a time where people functioned without money.

Tor is free, if people think its compromised just rewrite it and make it better and people will use it.

Private ways to store money, or value have always been useful. It is the Central Banks and corrupt politicians that have destroyed the financial system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
Avatars are overrated.

Seriously though, I don't even pay for internet. And I'm hoping more people will discover the air waves are free.

OT: Care to elaborate? Do you scan wifi or something?
Hook up an amp to an alfa with a good antenna like a super cantenna, you can get a 2 mile range easy. Cracking wep or wpa is pretty basic nowdays. There are a ton of youtube guides for capturing a handshake and then running brute force checks with rainbow tables to get the password. Or you could just run evil twin...

But that's not free internet. That's hijacking someone else's paid connection, and they could be penalized for whatever you download or if they exceed bandwidth caps. Sorry, it's wrong.

Nothing in life is free. Tor is a donated service that someone pays for. Growing food requires seeds, land and labour. Even free email and cloud services demand you sell your privacy. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone always pays. Maidsafe attempts at a service in the most equitable way -- user pays as he goes. No banks involved, no hidden agendas. Definitely in the spirit of decentralized cryptocurrencies.
I wasn't having an ethics debate. Fact is that in real life someone could use a Nexus 5 or even an old Nokia n900 to run evil twin to get on anyone's network. I was elaborating and explaining how we have signals flying all around and getting an ack back is easier than ever. Don't be so sensitive, it's only technology. Your sensitivity reminds me of my old boss though. As soon as I explained how dangerous it is sending unencrypted emails with customers ssn's and how easy it was to break his wep encrypted non-segregated wifi (in 2015 lol) could pose a threat to his customer database or even when I told him that metasploit could easily switch any customer accessible computer within the network into an attack vector since he refused to update or even setup GPO correctly... Anyways he fired me because of his ego (said I make things "difficult"). Do not let your ego control your grasp of technology or make you emotional about your lack of understanding of it. I do appreciate your post though.
legendary
Activity: 2412
Merit: 1044
There is of course dishes that scan and you don't have to hijack, many places give free wifi like starbucks.

But people forget the air is free. Just get a flashed phone. 3g and 4g is usually blocked on the phone.

And although I agree, planting needs seeds there is no free lunch. Yes we need to "breathe" to stay alive but come on. This is 2016, most things should be free. Tesla proved energy was free and could come right out the ground. Water can be taken out of the air. Homes can be 3d printed from dirt.

People need to start realizing we are being held back by wasting our time and energy on things that should not be paid services because there are superior technologies at our disposal.

Example, if I had a set of solar panels and I produced 10 times what I needed for my home, why not give it to my neighbors for free? What if I produced a billion times what I needed? People try to slap a dollar value on everything and that is another reason I don't like MAID. Believe it or not, there was a time where people functioned without money.

Tor is free, if people think its compromised just rewrite it and make it better and people will use it.
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