Silk Road Founder Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison - page 19.

AGD

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Quote from: Brad Pitt on July 05, 2015, 01:45:00 PM

Quote from: AGD on July 05, 2015, 10:57:38 AM

Quote from: JJB on July 05, 2015, 09:49:43 AM

Quote from: AGD on July 05, 2015, 03:07:57 AM

Quote from: foxbitcoin on July 04, 2015, 01:41:28 PM

I'm not advocating for drug dealers, but come on. give him 20 years or something, but life in prison ? For running an illegal website?

I don't agree with the sentence either, but what he did, was not just "running an illegal website".

What else was it? It was just a market.... a free market at the end of the day. Most libertarians believe people should be able to take whatever drugs they wanted and this facilitated that for them. Obviously what he did was a crime in the eyes of the law but others would argue it was just a free market and people sold and bought what they wished.

He earned commission from all sales incl hard drugs, which is the definition of drug dealing and not just "running an illegal website". Also he didn't pay tax (of course) and was defending his drug empire with violence (Maryland indiction). He was conspiring with other people to maintain his business. This is not the same as for example release a free warez site or hacking stuff, which I would call "an illegal website", but not SilkRoad. Ross intended to gain money in form of Bitcoins with Heroin sales for example.

Drug dealing is drug dealing. He didn't directly sell the drugs but facilitated their sale only. And some people think taxation is theft but if govs legalized drugs then they could collect their taxes and end the drug war over night. He also hasn't been tried for the murder for hire and the case seems to have been dropped. Could have been entirely fabricated by the corrupt officers for all we know. Finally, warez sites usually make money from ads and commission from filehosters so they're still taking their cut

It doesn't matter how much you try to twist reality. Earning money with drug sales still make you a drug dealer. Conspiring with others in drug dealing makes it even worse.

Brad Pitt

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Quote from: AGD on July 05, 2015, 10:57:38 AM

Quote from: JJB on July 05, 2015, 09:49:43 AM

Quote from: AGD on July 05, 2015, 03:07:57 AM

Quote from: foxbitcoin on July 04, 2015, 01:41:28 PM

I'm not advocating for drug dealers, but come on. give him 20 years or something, but life in prison ? For running an illegal website?

I don't agree with the sentence either, but what he did, was not just "running an illegal website".

What else was it? It was just a market.... a free market at the end of the day. Most libertarians believe people should be able to take whatever drugs they wanted and this facilitated that for them. Obviously what he did was a crime in the eyes of the law but others would argue it was just a free market and people sold and bought what they wished.

He earned commission from all sales incl hard drugs, which is the definition of drug dealing and not just "running an illegal website". Also he didn't pay tax (of course) and was defending his drug empire with violence (Maryland indiction). He was conspiring with other people to maintain his business. This is not the same as for example release a free warez site or hacking stuff, which I would call "an illegal website", but not SilkRoad. Ross intended to gain money in form of Bitcoins with Heroin sales for example.

Drug dealing is drug dealing. He didn't directly sell the drugs but facilitated their sale only. And some people think taxation is theft but if govs legalized drugs then they could collect their taxes and end the drug war over night. He also hasn't been tried for the murder for hire and the case seems to have been dropped. Could have been entirely fabricated by the corrupt officers for all we know. Finally, warez sites usually make money from ads and commission from filehosters so they're still taking their cut

gambit1

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Quote from: Cryddit on July 05, 2015, 01:04:23 PM

Quote from: gambit1 on July 05, 2015, 11:39:32 AM

That Ross would run it from a cafe on an unencrypted laptop in the US beggars belief. Thats more dopey than anything Kapeles did and should win him an award for America's dumbest criminal.

This sounds reasonable, but seriously, America has some incredibly dumb criminals. He's not even in the running compared to a guy who robbed a bank while wearing no mask, driving his own car, passed the holdup note to the teller written on the back of one of his own account's deposit slips at the same bank, and then got stuck in a multi-car pileup in the parking lot because his girlfriend lost control of her pet duck.

Not saying that what Ulbricht did wasn't stupid of course. It was. It's just that you have to overcome some VERY stiff competition for the title of America's Dumbest Criminal.

Quote from: gambit1 on July 05, 2015, 11:39:32 AM

We need leader of the community who are serious people. People in suits. People who take things seriously, act professionally and don't regard crytpo as a game.

Yep. To develop businesses, you need people who treat it as a business. Not as a game, or a hobby, or a scam.

That said, I'm tempted by a distinctly 'hobbyist' impulse myself - to copy the silk road website software (now in the public record as evidence) and set up a "homage" site selling perfectly legal silks and spices. Of course, at that point I'd have to compete with Ebay and Amazon, so it would probably never be profitable.

Lol

Cryddit

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 05, 2015, 11:42:57 AM

It often amazes me to think how far it's come off the back of infrastructure run by a bunch of autistic psychopaths. It amazes me even more that thousands of people chose to entrust them with their money.

I think you have to separate the autistics and the psychopaths here. The code was developed by some not-entirely-social engineers who might possibly have been autistic and/or Aspergers syndrome, and their entire point was telling people, Look, with crypto technology we're developing, you don't need to trust anybody with your money - especially not us! No central point of control, nobody but you has your keys, nobody can take your coins or steal them without your cooperation. And all of that? That's true. The "Autistics" actively developed a genuine trustless network where your keys are your money, you can check the blockchain yourself, and you don't have to share access to your money with anybody.

The psychopaths came along later and built on the perception of a "trustless" network - while getting people to trust them (the psychopaths that is) with their keys and getting people to NOT check the blockchain themselves. That's where we got web wallets, SPV clients, Mt.Gox, and all the con games that flatly wouldn't have worked if people used Bitcoin exactly like the "autistics" made it to be used.

Cryddit

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Quote from: gambit1 on July 05, 2015, 11:39:32 AM

That Ross would run it from a cafe on an unencrypted laptop in the US beggars belief. Thats more dopey than anything Kapeles did and should win him an award for America's dumbest criminal.

This sounds reasonable, but seriously, America has some incredibly dumb criminals. He's not even in the running compared to a guy who robbed a bank while wearing no mask, driving his own car, passed the holdup note to the teller written on the back of one of his own account's deposit slips at the same bank, and then got stuck in a multi-car pileup in the parking lot because his girlfriend lost control of her pet duck.

Not saying that what Ulbricht did wasn't stupid of course. It was. It's just that you have to overcome some VERY stiff competition for the title of America's Dumbest Criminal.

Quote from: gambit1 on July 05, 2015, 11:39:32 AM

We need leader of the community who are serious people. People in suits. People who take things seriously, act professionally and don't regard crytpo as a game.

Yep. To develop businesses, you need people who treat it as a business. Not as a game, or a hobby, or a scam.

That said, I'm tempted by a distinctly 'hobbyist' impulse myself - to copy the silk road website software (now in the public record as evidence) and set up a "homage" site selling perfectly legal silks and spices. Of course, at that point I'd have to compete with Ebay and Amazon, so it would probably never be profitable.

gentlemand

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Quote from: bitcollins85 on July 05, 2015, 12:41:34 PM

I wondered if he hadn't been involved with murder if the sentence would still have been the same?

None of that came up in the trial at all. There was enough to put him away for as long as they liked already. I'm sure it can't have helped his general perception but it was all a bit murky anyway.

bitcollins85

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I wondered if he hadn't been involved with murder if the sentence would still have been the same?

gambit1

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Sure, I agree with that. You don't have to be an empty suit, but you should probably at least be wearing one.

Bitcoininspace

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 05, 2015, 11:42:57 AM

Quote from: gambit1 on July 05, 2015, 11:39:32 AM

I feel for Ross but we need serious people leading in the crypto communities, not silly men-children like Kapeles and Ulbricht.

That Ross would run it from a cafe on an unencrypted laptop in the US beggars belief. Thats more dopey than anything Kapeles did and should win him an award for America's dumbest criminal.

We need leader of the community who are serious people. People in suits. People who take things seriously, act professionally and don't regard crytpo as a game. People who look and act more at home in a corporate board room than at Starbucks.

It often amazes me to think how far it's come off the back of infrastructure run by a bunch of autistic psychopaths. It amazes me even more that thousands of people chose to entrust them with their money.

I don't think we need corporate robots. Just decent and skilled people with the passion to steer things in the right direction. People like Jesse Powell from Kraken are a whole lot more reassuring to have around than some stiff who waltzed in fresh from his MBA. It still needs a bit of vision to get where it deserves.

Well we saw what happened with mtgox when people trusted others with their money. Bitcoin should be the rule number 1 where people should start to learn that trusting anyone except yourself with your money is just not gonna work out for you in the end.

gentlemand

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Quote from: gambit1 on July 05, 2015, 11:39:32 AM

I feel for Ross but we need serious people leading in the crypto communities, not silly men-children like Kapeles and Ulbricht.

That Ross would run it from a cafe on an unencrypted laptop in the US beggars belief. Thats more dopey than anything Kapeles did and should win him an award for America's dumbest criminal.

We need leader of the community who are serious people. People in suits. People who take things seriously, act professionally and don't regard crytpo as a game. People who look and act more at home in a corporate board room than at Starbucks.

It often amazes me to think how far it's come off the back of infrastructure run by a bunch of autistic psychopaths. It amazes me even more that thousands of people chose to entrust them with their money.

I don't think we need corporate robots. Just decent and skilled people with the passion to steer things in the right direction. People like Jesse Powell from Kraken are a whole lot more reassuring to have around than some stiff who waltzed in fresh from his MBA. It still needs a bit of vision to get where it deserves.

gambit1

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Activity: 980

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I feel for Ross but we need serious people leading in the crypto communities, not silly men-children like Kapeles and Ulbricht.

That Ross would run it from a cafe on an unencrypted laptop in the US beggars belief. Thats more dopey than anything Kapeles did and should win him an award for America's dumbest criminal.

We need leader of the community who are serious people. People in suits. People who take things seriously, act professionally and don't regard crytpo as a game. People who look and act more at home in a corporate board room than at Starbucks.

Crypto has made great strides in its short history, now to kick on it needs real leaders.

The age of the hobbyist, 30 something manchild as a leader in crypto is comming to an end and not soon enough.

AGD

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Quote from: JJB on July 05, 2015, 09:49:43 AM

Quote from: AGD on July 05, 2015, 03:07:57 AM

Quote from: foxbitcoin on July 04, 2015, 01:41:28 PM

I'm not advocating for drug dealers, but come on. give him 20 years or something, but life in prison ? For running an illegal website?

I don't agree with the sentence either, but what he did, was not just "running an illegal website".

What else was it? It was just a market.... a free market at the end of the day. Most libertarians believe people should be able to take whatever drugs they wanted and this facilitated that for them. Obviously what he did was a crime in the eyes of the law but others would argue it was just a free market and people sold and bought what they wished.

He earned commission from all sales incl hard drugs, which is the definition of drug dealing and not just "running an illegal website". Also he didn't pay tax (of course) and was defending his drug empire with violence (Maryland indiction). He was conspiring with other people to maintain his business. This is not the same as for example release a free warez site or hacking stuff, which I would call "an illegal website", but not SilkRoad. Ross intended to gain money in form of Bitcoins with Heroin sales for example.

A free market is something like OpenBazaar, but definitely not SilkRoad.

JJB

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Quote from: AGD on July 05, 2015, 03:07:57 AM

Quote from: foxbitcoin on July 04, 2015, 01:41:28 PM

I'm not advocating for drug dealers, but come on. give him 20 years or something, but life in prison ? For running an illegal website?

I don't agree with the sentence either, but what he did, was not just "running an illegal website".

What else was it? It was just a market.... a free market at the end of the day. Most libertarians believe people should be able to take whatever drugs they wanted and this facilitated that for them. Obviously what he did was a crime in the eyes of the law but others would argue it was just a free market and people sold and bought what they wished.

AGD

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Keeper of the Private Key

Quote from: foxbitcoin on July 04, 2015, 01:41:28 PM

I'm not advocating for drug dealers, but come on. give him 20 years or something, but life in prison ? For running an illegal website?

I don't agree with the sentence either, but what he did, was not just "running an illegal website".

foxbitcoin

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I'm not advocating for drug dealers, but come on. give him 20 years or something, but life in prison ? For running an illegal website?

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: scarsbergholden on July 04, 2015, 12:41:56 PM

Most of the people that say silk road or any usage of bitcoin in the dark web is bad for bitcoin, i seen quite a lot of people saying that the dark usages of bitcoin are a cancer for bitcoin to grow in the general public.

There's still a ton of dark web usage for it. It doesn't seem to pop up as a subject very often any more. All the mainstream stuff has drowned it out somewhat.

scarsbergholden

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Quote from: Wonka on July 04, 2015, 09:36:05 AM

Who would deny that? I think it's actually undeniable that Silk Road transactions were massive for bitcoin and actually gave bitcoin it's first widespread use and definitely boosted its value.

Most of the people that say silk road or any usage of bitcoin in the dark web is bad for bitcoin, i seen quite a lot of people saying that the dark usages of bitcoin are a cancer for bitcoin to grow in the general public.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: scarsbergholden on July 04, 2015, 02:40:35 AM

so people know how crazy ross sentence is, read up a little on a man name salvatore mancuso http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/colombian-paramilitary-leader-sentenced-more-15-years-prison-international-drug-trafficking

i wouldn't doubt is this Colombian Paramilitary leader has more the 2,000 deaths under his commands plus all the drugs he pumped into the states.

is just plain crazy for 15 years.

Salvatore Mancuso fought for the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC), which is funded and armed by the United States. Most of the times, he was merely following the orders from his American masters. He was sentenced to prison, for trying to smuggle cocaine in to the United States, and not for killing those 2,000 people.

Cryddit

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It might have helped with adoption, but after adoption you need legitimacy. Silk Road had become a hindrance rather than a help, long before it got taken out.

If your best-known or only known model lets people believe Bitcoin is just a means of committing crime, then Bitcoin has no long-term value because it will be treated only as a means of committing crime.

In some kind of bizarro-land way, we are probably fortunate that the FBI agents investigating this case were so completely crooked. It at least prevents people from neatly categorizing all the people doing business in Bitcoin as having been the only crooks involved. Hey, a Bitcoin business was at least comparable in legitimacy to the FBI's finest!

Wonka

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Quote from: scarsbergholden on July 04, 2015, 09:14:48 AM

a lot of people will denied that the silk road bitcoin volume didn't help bitcoin to boost up, given the fact with out that volume things would have never gotten that much exposure on the general tech savvy world.

Who would deny that? I think it's actually undeniable that Silk Road transactions were massive for bitcoin and actually gave bitcoin it's first widespread use and definitely boosted its value.

Topic: Silk Road Founder Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison - page 19. (Read 50152 times)