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Topic: Starfish BCB - Loans and Deposits (Read 60523 times)

newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
January 26, 2013, 09:56:44 AM
Though a petty analogy, it's far better that the "bitcoin bank" fail than to receive a bailout from the government. Amen?

I have to apologize, I think I have hijacked this thread, but I think at this point it doesn't matter to the OP.

In the real world, Yes and no.  It depends on how much you value a aristocratic economy over a equal access credit based one.  I think a lot of people in the real world have forgotten what banks should do, this includes the banks themselves.  One of the problems with banks, is they no longer serve the community, by this I mean, the large for profit banks, have to charge fees when they catch someone making a mistake - and everyone makes a mistake, so most people who have interacted with a bank would like to see the banks fail.  However, if you view the bank as a necessary part of any large scale credit based economy, then banks serve a few critical purposes.  Everything regarding banks has been twisted around in the last 20 years or so with the merging of wealth management banks with community banks.  But, I don't see a way back when loan interest rates seem to permanently below 6-8%.

My personal opinion, is banks serve a very important moral purpose, and need to be supported.  In a credit based economy, banks are critical to the movement of money.  Support can come from individuals, community, capital markets and a central bank; generally in that order.  Access to credit is actually the great equalizer in our modern world.  At a certain point in the development of an economy, when a few entities have accumulated large amounts of capital, only the very rich would stay rich, since they would be the only ones able to expand their businesses, and use their capital to buy or undercut any capital poor folks who tried to compete (at least until the competition fails).  An entity here can be an individual, company, family, etc, basically a closed group.

It would have been very nice to see the big miners or supporters of bitcoin, step in and support the honest banks.  I am not advocating any bitcoin banks modeled after pure western banking due to the insufficient loss statistics and lack of efficient recovery mechanisms(debt collection).  For various legal or other reasons, at this time the bitcoin world can't support a bank using capital markets or a central bank.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
January 24, 2013, 12:36:24 PM
Just thought I would follow up on this one; after giving things time to settle down. 

It makes more sense to close down once all incentives to stay are removed.  Hence, I expect any reasonable individual who gets a Bitcoin talk scammer tag, and can't remedy the situation after considering all the facts, they will eventually stop interacting with the Bitcoin talk community. 

I have to say anyone who gets banned, has even less reason to stick around. 

Starfish BCB was probably run by an individual who had the very honest intentions, but his understanding of western banking lacked.  It's sort of sad because of the social nature of bitcoin talk. So far, the scammer tag is the only way moderators have come up with to administer punishment for promises that are broken.  For a person that truly believes they are honest, receiving a scammer tag must be very painfully.  Expecting someone to stick around to face the pain is not something normal people would do.

In some ways, it's really a moral weakness in the Bitcoin world.  What I mean by this, is there is no way to punish only the business side, ie spare the individual.  It's a step backwards in time, since the scammer tag is the same as social isolation via a bitcoin debtors prison.  I also happen to think this system appeals to some bitcoin supporters.

Banks are really, a systemic problem within Bitcoin.  Banks as we know them cannot function in the world of bitcoin in the same way.  Banks function in the western world because they can obtain funding based on their deposits, ie loans from a central bank, which multiples their ability to lend and make money; they use this multiplier to boost profits, which in turn allow them to write down bad loans and not reduce their capital base.  Plus, there is no way efficient way to recover funds from a bad debt, not to mention the lack of statistics to even calculate loan loss provisions for a given business type/size.

Great post.

It's really a tragic story, because Patrick and his wife really do/did volunteer at and donate to a homeless shelter. If you do enough digging online you can find an article about Wendy. I think Patrick was a nice man who ended up between a rock and a hard place. Unfortunately he appears to have disappeared for good, which makes him more of crook than just a bankrupt man.

Though a petty analogy, it's far better that the "bitcoin bank" fail than to receive a bailout from the government. Amen?
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
January 24, 2013, 12:01:03 PM
Just thought I would follow up on this one; after giving things time to settle down. 

It makes more sense to close down once all incentives to stay are removed.  Hence, I expect any reasonable individual who gets a Bitcoin talk scammer tag, and can't remedy the situation after considering all the facts, they will eventually stop interacting with the Bitcoin talk community. 

I have to say anyone who gets banned, has even less reason to stick around. 

Starfish BCB was probably run by an individual who had the very honest intentions, but his understanding of western banking lacked.  It's sort of sad because of the social nature of bitcoin talk. So far, the scammer tag is the only way moderators have come up with to administer punishment for promises that are broken.  For a person that truly believes they are honest, receiving a scammer tag must be very painfully.  Expecting someone to stick around to face the pain is not something normal people would do.

In some ways, it's really a moral weakness in the Bitcoin world.  What I mean by this, is there is no way to punish only the business side, ie spare the individual.  It's a step backwards in time, since the scammer tag is the same as social isolation via a bitcoin debtors prison.  I also happen to think this system appeals to some bitcoin supporters.

Banks are really, a systemic problem within Bitcoin.  Banks as we know them cannot function in the world of bitcoin in the same way.  Banks function in the western world because they can obtain funding based on their deposits, ie loans from a central bank, which multiples their ability to lend and make money; they use this multiplier to boost profits, which in turn allow them to write down bad loans and not reduce their capital base.  Plus, there is no way efficient way to recover funds from a bad debt, not to mention the lack of statistics to even calculate loan loss provisions for a given business type/size.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
rippleFanatic
January 01, 2013, 12:54:18 AM
Who would've thought that this wonderful offer would be a scam? I mean its not like there were any warning signs.

Except the giant one with flashing neon lights that said "WARNING! To good to be true!!!"

But other than that, there was definitely no way to know that it was scam. (Besides all the people yelling "scam")

Who were trolls and deserve to be shot!


/sarcasm

told ya so.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 502
December 19, 2012, 12:53:30 PM
Who would've thought that this wonderful offer would be a scam? I mean its not like there were any warning signs.

Except the giant one with flashing neon lights that said "WARNING! To good to be true!!!"

But other than that, there was definitely no way to know that it was scam. (Besides all the people yelling "scam")

Who were trolls and deserve to be shot!
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
America, land of the free
December 18, 2012, 06:15:07 PM
Who would've thought that this wonderful offer would be a scam? I mean its not like there were any warning signs.

Except the giant one with flashing neon lights that said "WARNING! To good to be true!!!"

But other than that, there was definitely no way to know that it was scam. (Besides all the people yelling "scam")
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 250
Look for the bear necessities!!
December 07, 2012, 12:46:18 PM
Well, Pat?
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1005
this space intentionally left blank
November 29, 2012, 04:47:55 AM
i deposited 5BTC waybackwhen
just stumbled over these scammer-thingies.

oh well.

requested a payout nonetheless. see how that goes.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
November 24, 2012, 05:40:31 PM
It was inevitable that someone was going to report Patrick's off-duty acitivities to his employer.  I'm surprised the email wasn't copied to the two professional associations named in his SRG profile as well.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
November 24, 2012, 01:48:39 AM
Basically more payments will be sent when coins come in from his debtors.

Umm... Was this the deal? No.

What a shame...

What is his rationale? He was accused of being a scammer, got pissed and decided to become a scammer?
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
November 23, 2012, 11:23:54 PM

100% confirmed, spoke via email at his srgexpert address.

Basically more payments will be sent when coins come in from his debtors.
(Which is unlikely because most of his debtor's have done a runner.)
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Think. Positive. Thoughts.
November 23, 2012, 10:54:00 PM
I had a brief conversation with him last friday via. Email. If you're an investor I would suggest contacting him that way.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
November 23, 2012, 08:25:26 PM
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
November 23, 2012, 08:12:10 PM
Surely if he's run, there's enough collective interest in apprehending him that such a venture will be financed? Especially given his previously touted transparency...

According to his profile, he's been active since the repayments stopped:

Last Active:   November 18, 2012, 07:46:39 PM
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
November 23, 2012, 08:00:28 PM
Surely if he's run, there's enough collective interest in apprehending him that such a venture will be financed? Especially given his previously touted transparency...
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
November 23, 2012, 06:58:52 PM
Has been a while since I received any repayment.  Updates, Patrick?

The last payment I saw was on 1st Nov.  The last 3 payments didn't arrive.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
November 22, 2012, 02:38:19 PM
Has been a while since I received any repayment.  Updates, Patrick?

Nothing from Patrick in 2 weeks. Guaranteed done a runner to save his own skin.

Just found this via a Google search:
http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-patrick-harnett-saga-continues/
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 250
Look for the bear necessities!!
November 22, 2012, 01:47:08 PM
Has been a while since I received any repayment.  Updates, Patrick?
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
November 21, 2012, 06:50:26 AM
What has become obvious - in hindsight - is that the average level of honesty just isn't high enough.

I think people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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