Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract! Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock] - page 25.

robitnik

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Quote from: Findus on March 28, 2014, 04:38:40 AM

I did not follow the whole story, but there's something that does not compute from my point of view.
I bought 12 COG.F2 for 5 BTC each in August. My 60 BTC investment was used to buy CT hardware. Then each COG.F2 was converted to 20 COG in March.
Selling the hardware now would make the final dividend around 0.025 by robitnik's estimation below. So if we liquidate, my 60 BTC become 6 BTC?

What I don't understand is, how did the hardware loose 90% of its value without yielding significant hashing dividends for COG.F2 investors?

The problem is that the CT hardware was priced in dollars. At the time 1 BTC was worth ~$120. IIRC, ~650 BTC were needed to raise the required dollar amount. If BTC was still worth $120 and we sold 19 units at $8,000 each, that's 1,266 BTC. Now BTC is worth 4+ times as much. If we sell the hardware for dollars now, we get ~300 BTC.

If BTC keeps rising, it's better to keep mining. The COG.F holders effectively locked in a share price of 0.25 BTC (5 BTC for 20 shares). The dividends from current hardware (assuming all 30 TH/s gets running) could support a share price of between 0.12 and 0.38 BTC based on 50% dividends alone. If the reinvestment fund is used well, it could be higher.

I expect mining difficulty increases to continue to slow down except for a spike when ASICMiner's gen 3 stuff comes online. This means that our current hardware and whatever we buy next will perform for a long time. I'm sure it is possible to salvage this operation. The question is do we all agree and if so, what plan can we come up with. YoYa's board suggestion is a good one and worth following up on.

Findus

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Quote from: jimmothy on March 28, 2014, 05:26:05 AM

So he only got 240 shares?

Shouldn't he have something like 25% of shares because he paid for 25% of the hardware?

Yes, I got 240 shares from my 12 COG.F2.
I don't know about 25%.

jimmothy

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Quote from: elasticband on March 28, 2014, 05:11:43 AM

no each of his cog2 sahres, which he bought 12 of were converted into 20 cog shares.

So he only got 240 shares?

Shouldn't he have something like 25% of shares because he paid for 25% of the hardware?

elasticband

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no each of his cog2 sahres, which he bought 12 of were converted into 20 cog shares.

jimmothy

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Quote from: Findus on March 28, 2014, 04:38:40 AM

I did not follow the whole story, but there's something that does not compute from my point of view.
I bought 12 COG.F2 for 5 BTC each in August. My 60 BTC investment was used to buy CT hardware. Then each COG.F2 was converted to 20 COG in March.
Selling the hardware now would make the final dividend around 0.025 by robitnik's estimation below. So if we liquidate, my 60 BTC become 6 BTC?

What I don't understand is, how did the hardware loose 90% of its value without yielding significant hashing dividends for COG.F2 investors?

Quote from: robitnik on March 27, 2014, 02:11:05 PM

Liquidating Cog means selling the hardware with the proceeds being distributed to shareholders.

TerraMiners are going for roughly $8,000 at the moment. 30 TH/s is ~25 units at 1.2 TH/s (19 at 1.6 TH/s). This gives us between $152,000 and $200,000 assuming all units are sold. At current prices, that is between 287 and 377 BTC or between 0.020 and 0.026 BTC per share.

Running 30 TH/s assuming a difficulty increase of 15% every 2 weeks will yield 108 BTC in 6 weeks, 203 BTC in 16 weeks and so on. And we'd still have the hardware although it's value will be greatly depreciated.

Note that the above doesn't include Ebay fees for selling or electricity costs for running the hardware.

Wait you only got 20 shares for 60btc?

Findus

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Activity: 131

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I did not follow the whole story, but there's something that does not compute from my point of view.
I bought 12 COG.F2 for 5 BTC each in August. My 60 BTC investment was used to buy CT hardware. Then each COG.F2 was converted to 20 COG in March.
Selling the hardware now would make the final dividend around 0.025 by robitnik's estimation below. So if we liquidate, my 60 BTC become 6 BTC?

What I don't understand is, how did the hardware loose 90% of its value without yielding significant hashing dividends for COG.F2 investors?

Quote from: robitnik on March 27, 2014, 02:11:05 PM

Liquidating Cog means selling the hardware with the proceeds being distributed to shareholders.

TerraMiners are going for roughly $8,000 at the moment. 30 TH/s is ~25 units at 1.2 TH/s (19 at 1.6 TH/s). This gives us between $152,000 and $200,000 assuming all units are sold. At current prices, that is between 287 and 377 BTC or between 0.020 and 0.026 BTC per share.

Running 30 TH/s assuming a difficulty increase of 15% every 2 weeks will yield 108 BTC in 6 weeks, 203 BTC in 16 weeks and so on. And we'd still have the hardware although it's value will be greatly depreciated.

Note that the above doesn't include Ebay fees for selling or electricity costs for running the hardware.

bigdude

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Dolphins Finance TRUSTED FINANCE

Has Garr posted anywhere an analysis of the two scenarios?

Like expected incomes per share if we continue to mine vs expected return if we liquidate?

Thanks

robitnik

newbie

Activity: 42

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Quote from: dunchy on March 27, 2014, 07:11:41 PM

My vote : NO

You'll have to reply to the email he sent out to vote.

Also, we have movement on Eligius.
New machines seem to be running at 1.6 TH/s. Our 256 second average is 10 TH/s.

dunchy

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My vote : NO

Tafelpoot

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Quote from: robitnik on March 27, 2014, 02:11:05 PM

Running 30 TH/s assuming a difficulty increase of 15% every 2 weeks will yield 108 BTC in 6 weeks, 203 BTC in 16 weeks and so on. And we'd

We have 10 CT boxes at the moment, from which Garrett manages to run only 2 - 5 at once...
Do you really believe Garrett will be able to run 30 TH/s for more than 1 hour by Friday? Let alone 6 weeks...
Mining returns of the first 6 weeks will be 20 - 60 btc.
At about 13k usd hosting cost (for 6 weeks) = 25 btc, we are not even sure to make a profit the first month.

elasticband

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Exactly. Liquidating cog gives garr perfect chance to buy cogs hw back from shareholders.

damiano

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103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: damiano on March 27, 2014, 02:14:38 PM

is this going down the same path as labcoin?

No with labcoin - Alberto took all the BTC never paid out anything bought mining equipment and used the btc to gamble with at Just-Dice

he mined for a bit at the end and paid out dividends for about 2 weeks i think

damiano

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103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.

is this going down the same path as labcoin?

robitnik

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Quote from: elasticband on March 27, 2014, 01:26:29 PM

...
Dissolving Cog now will most likely result in a buy back from the management on pennies to the dollar.
...

There's no buyback in the contract:

Quote from: ?? on ??

For 27 BTC he can buy the whole company...

Havelock should clear the order book before trading recommences. There'll be no buying at 0.002 BTC unless shareholders decide to put up an ask at 0.002 BTC.

MilkyLep

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Bitcoin for all & all for Bitcoin

Still no response to what exactly happened with Havelock (unless that occurred on IRC which I didn't bother to read) and now a motion to buy back the shares after claiming you can no longer pay hosting and uphold your end of the contract once again.

Will you refrain from receiving any liquidation of assets personally due to the mismanagement over the past half a year? What happened to you using your April dividends to reimburse shareholders?

elasticband

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Quote from: jimmothy on March 27, 2014, 01:18:57 PM

So now you cant afford to pay electricity for hosting 8TH but you can afford to fund an asic production line?

Seems legit.

See the point is Garr's dividends can no longer afford to cover cognitive's hosting price, had cognitive's hardware been online the whole time, then it might be a different story. Garr's personal funds can afford to do what ever the f*ck he chooses. More miss management affecting share holders.

Dissolving Cog now will most likely result in a buy back from the management on pennies to the dollar.

when is 7 day countdown up? Surely we are in the last 20hours now?

jimmothy

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So now you cant afford to pay electricity for hosting 8TH but you can afford to fund an asic production line?

Seems legit.

elasticband

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Quote

"Shareholders:

It is now necessary for Cognitive to pay for hosting fees directly, as opposed to me using my personal dividends to do this.

Vote "YES" for the reserve fund to cover hosting expenses from the time my personal dividends were insufficient forward.
Vote "NO" to liquidate all Cognitive mining assets and disperse via a large dividend.

Best,
Garrett"

How about NO and you uphold the original agreement you started with your share holders and pay for the hosting as it is part of the contract you made and agreed to, if your share is your failing mining company does not provide enough revenue per month to maintain the hosting of cognitive's hardware then raising a motion to breach or end contract is not an acceptable resolution.

Your miss management has caused this, now deal with it without raping your shareholders more.

PS where is my vote in that list?

Surf Capital Management

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IRC Meeting from earlier on #CognitiveMining

Garr255

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What's a GPU?

Sorry, the rows must not have stuck together when I did a column sort. I will take care of that today.

The 8 CT units will be online today. They are out for delivery in the town of the DC right now. Yesterday morning they were on a late flight which caused this delay.

I will provide the tracking number for the units after they are delivered.

Best,
Garrett

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