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Topic: Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract! Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock] - page 36. (Read 300616 times)

hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
Agreed, but Asicminer's hardware is overpriced.

How so? AM Gen3 at the chip level is supposed to be $0.5-$1/gh at 0.2w/gh

Compare that to hashlast evo boards which are about $3/gh at 1w/gh.

Anyways good luck selling hardware that is 3 times more expensive and 5 times less efficient than the competition.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
Serious question:

Is this operation run by a bunch of 16 year olds?
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
Seems like a motion is appropriate, but I can see this working a few different ways:

1. Sell hardware, use proceeds to pay 100% div.  Raise COG.F3 if we need more funds for hardware purchase later
2. Sell hardware, use 50% of proceeds to pay div, keep 50% for reinvestment fund
3. Sell hardware, put it all in reinvestment fund

I think 3 is only reasonable if we have some other hardware to buy that we can have in-hand very soon (like, < 1 month).  Otherwise, I'd prefer 1 or 2.  Would 1 mean "the end of cog", or would there still be plenty of money left over for reinvestment in the next big thing?  Maybe to answer these questions, we need to see just how many CT machines we sell, and how much profit we can make from them.  Also, if some of the CT machines do work, or if we are able to run a smaller number of them reliably, maybe we don't sell them all - just a few.

Also, maybe before we are able to sell them, the data center comes through and magically fixes everything.  Who knows.  I'm still in favor of keeping our options open, so long as movement happens to keep as many options open as possible in the meantime.

Garrett has decided that all of the hardware that is sold (old hardware and CT hardware) will go to the reinvestment fund. Of course, we will start by seeing how many of the CT units we can sell. The plan right now is to start by selling the first 8 CT units, one at a time, on eBay. We will place the starting bid at $8,000 and see how much people are willing to pay. If the new facility in WA is ready when the remainder of the CT units arrive, it may be most profitable to keep them. In a facility with cheap/reliable power, adequate cooling, and 24/7 supervision they should be far less problematic. If all goes as planned, this facility should be housing new hardware by the first week in April.
 
Our priorities are as follows:
1.) Sell the first few CoinTerra units
2.) Secure the new space
3.) Purchase new hardware
4.) Documentation and transparency: Financial reports, irc interview, google hangout… anything people want to increase transparency. Of course, we will be working on these things whenever there is time to do so in-between the tasks listed above, and transparency is something we will be continuously working on.

Meanwhile, Garrett plans to set up a better way of paying dividends: The plan is to place a 4 BTC buffer in the Cognitive account on Havelock, so that within about 5 hours, funds from the cog mining address can transfer to Havelcok, Havelock can pay dividends, and the balance should always go back to 4 BTC. This way Garrett doesn't have to continue paying dividends from his own Havelock account.



Maybe Asicminer will have gen3 units in-hand and ready to sell in the next couple of months?  Has anyone been following them?  Their hardware has always been expensive, but they (AFAIK) have always only sold units in hand, shipped quickly, and delivered exactly as promised meaning the ROI calculation is straightforward, reliable, and low-risk.  Of course, on the other hand, (at least based upon their share price), gen3 might be vaporware itself and not something to rely upon...

Agreed, but Asicminer's hardware is overpriced.


FWIW, with the slowdown in network size increases, I have been running my 65nm BFL hardware longer than I anticipated and I think COG's BFL hardware will be economical to run for a while longer (the returns are small, but they more than offset cost to run still I believe).

Garrett believes that selling them now will be more profitable in the long run. They have been up for sale on the forum but haven't sold so the plan is to put them on eBay either tonight or tomorrow.


We will keep you updated, and give you links to the eBay auctions.

- Samuel
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
HashFast Community Liaison
If this operation can't mine it is as good as dead.

I think ditching the Clownterra trash and selling 700+ GH/s HashFast boards is a good, perhaps even great, alternative.

I will never buy CT stuff again (cuz Ravi wont let me) but I would never buy your crap ever. I would buy BFL and send Pirate BTC before sending you BTC.

You are a new low in this world full of scammers.

Fine, next time order from Black Arrow, AMT, or Bitmine.ch.  I heard they will ship to customers SoonTM (perhaps even In Two Weeks).   Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
If this operation can't mine it is as good as dead.

I think ditching the Clownterra trash and selling 700+ GH/s HashFast boards is a good, perhaps even great, alternative.

I can't think of a better way to run a company in to the ground than to partner with the asic manufacturer with the worst reputation in bitcoin.

Seems like a great idea to sell all your hardware mining at 1w/gh for hashlast next generation 1w/gh miners which will be released about the same time everyone else switches to less than 0.5w/gh miners.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
HashFast Community Liaison
If this operation can't mine it is as good as dead.

I think ditching the Clownterra trash and selling 700+ GH/s HashFast boards is a good, perhaps even great, alternative.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
I personally doubt Cointerra is going to give us much bonus equipment after the point of Garret obtaining a single rig from them. They can say that at that point they are no longer late, and only owe us hash-rate until that point in time. The contract does not specify that the hardware needs to be shipped in full. I believe they will give us some hardware in compensation, but not anything close to 2x or whatever, we might get maybe 3-4 more rigs than were purchased. They know that we aren't going to spend a fortune fighting their agreement too.

That really depends on what their jurisdiction considers "delivery". I'd imagine that "delivery" is probably read as "delivery in full" but I could be wrong. In the worst case scenario, the first units arrived on the 18th of February so CoinTerra would owe us 33 TH/s. If Texas says that "delivery" on a purchase agreement means "delivery in full", then they'd owe us 41 TH/s and counting.

Also, we seem to be up to 9 TH/s on Eligius.
full member
Activity: 186
Merit: 100
Monero
I personally doubt Cointerra is going to give us much bonus equipment after the point of Garret obtaining a single rig from them. They can say that at that point they are no longer late, and only owe us hash-rate until that point in time. The contract does not specify that the hardware needs to be shipped in full. I believe they will give us some hardware in compensation, but not anything close to 2x or whatever, we might get maybe 3-4 more rigs than were purchased. They know that we aren't going to spend a fortune fighting their agreement too.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
If this operation can't mine it is as good as dead.

Agreed.

All we need are two things.
  • Cabinets in a data center
  • Our hardware
Then we hook up power, network and configure. Then we've got clean power, adequate cooling and a reliable connection to a pool.

I'm assuming that most of the problems with our current hardware (apart from a couple of bad boards) are related to either
insufficient cooling or unreliable power supply.

Of course, we have two questions.
We need to know what the hold up is with the data center and why Cointerra haven't delivered the rest of our hardware yet.

Guybrush01 says his data center can provision 5 cabinets in 3 days for $5,000. If we had all 10 current TerraMiners running, that's just 5 days income and we have 16 BTC in the reserve fund to cover it in the mean time.

Datacenter delays are causing these problems. Typically, real estate of this large-scale nature is prepared months if not a year in advance and we are doing this in weeks. Everything will be operational within the coming week, but until then we have to do our best with our current resources. I will post the miners on ebay for 10 days and cancel if the 7 day motion does not pass.

If the motion to sell the units does not pass, we will be in a top-class tier-3 datacenter piggybacking on a larger operation, getting the cheapest power in the nation.

Best,
Garrett

Honestly, as a shareholder who was hacked, and then re-acquired almost all of his original position, I wish you the best.  But I have to ask, what data center are you working with?  Are they new?

I talked to our data center and they could provision 2 - 5 cabinets, each with 4 30A 208v circuits, in 3 days if I paid about $1k per cab expedite fee.

And no, this isn't Bob's house of chicken waffles & data centers.  It's kind of the 3rd largest data center in the United States.
member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
...
Raise COG.F3 if we need more funds for hardware purchase later
...

I seriously doubt that, in it's current state, Cognitive could raise any funding whatsoever. Quite a lot of people got burned on COG.F and COG.F2. They were sold at 5 BTC each for 20 ordinary shares. That's 0.25 BTC per share. Cognitive is currently circling the drain at 0.0251 BTC. Nobody in their right mind would touch this clusterfuck until it starts performing. I'm talking about actual performance not promises, not "next week", not "in the future" but actual mining income from all the hardware we supposedly bought distributed as dividends with 50% held back for reinvestment as per the contract.


That's fair =|
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0


CoinTerra must respect the contract and deliver all the hashrate with working units.
Would it be possible to get a full refund of the BTC invested ?


if that was the case no one would have taken hardware.

Very true.

On the plus side, Eligius says we have been running at ~6 TH/s for the last 7 hours. A new stable hashing record of 37.5% of our max hashrate compared to last week's 25%. With what we have now, we should be making 1.9 BTC per day compared to the 0.7 BTC we're making at the moment. We're also pissing away money at a slightly lower rate than last week. Which is a start, I suppose.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1131
With the 1% late delivery penalty, as of today CoinTerra owes Cognitive 41.16 TH/s.
  • Is Ravi actually going to honour this and will the 26+ units actually work?
  • When will they arrive?
  • Are we going to keep them or sell them too?
Agree on the note about the CoinTerra contract - Based on the contract with ConTerra, shouldn't the 'hashrate penalty' clock still be ticking since they have not fulfilled their obligations to supply the agreed amount of hashrate?  In fact, the defective units should not count as hashrate delivered since the units are not supplying any (or minimal) hashrate  Huh Shocked and the Penalty/Bonus hashrate contract amount continues to grow. 
Hold them to the contact and get this mining company mining!

CoinTerra must respect the contract and deliver all the hashrate with working units.
Would it be possible to get a full refund of the BTC invested ?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 501

With the 1% late delivery penalty, as of today CoinTerra owes Cognitive 41.16 TH/s.
  • Is Ravi actually going to honour this and will the 26+ units actually work?
  • When will they arrive?
  • Are we going to keep them or sell them too?


Agree on the note about the CoinTerra contract - Based on the contract with ConTerra, shouldn't the 'hashrate penalty' clock still be ticking since they have not fulfilled their obligations to supply the agreed amount of hashrate?  In fact, the defective units should not count as hashrate delivered since the units are not supplying any (or minimal) hashrate  Huh Shocked and the Penalty/Bonus hashrate contract amount continues to grow. 

Hold them to the contact and get this mining company mining!
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
Get what's owed us from CoinTerra, sell the units that are unreliable and require too much maintenance, and let's buy the next-gen 20nm ASICs and/or the new Scrypt ASICs being developed by KNC, Gridseed, etc.

http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-accepting-pre-orders-first-scrypt-miner-titan
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
So once again, we're a mining company who doesn't mine.

With the 1% late delivery penalty, as of today CoinTerra owes Cognitive 41.16 TH/s.
  • Is Ravi actually going to honour this and will the 26+ units actually work?
  • When will they arrive?
  • Are we going to keep them or sell them too?

Garr said last week that the current hardware would be moved to the Washington datacenter "this coming week".
  • Did you actually try to run our current hardware at the colo?
  • Do we even have space in a datacenter yet?

What precisely was the problem with the current hardware? I find it difficult to believe that 80% of CoinTerra's machines simply don't work or just limp along at half capacity. There are plenty of dissatisfied TerraMiner owners out there but not 80%.

We spent almost 700 BTC on this CoinTerra deal. If we somehow both get and sell all 26 TerraMiners for $10,000 each tomorrow, we only make 416 BTC. So far, Cognitive seems to be a very efficient way to lose money.

With 41 TH/s, today we should be mining 4.872 BTC per day. We need to mine immediately.

...
Raise COG.F3 if we need more funds for hardware purchase later
...

I seriously doubt that, in it's current state, Cognitive could raise any funding whatsoever. Quite a lot of people got burned on COG.F and COG.F2. They were sold at 5 BTC each for 20 ordinary shares. That's 0.25 BTC per share. Cognitive is currently circling the drain at 0.0251 BTC. Nobody in their right mind would touch this clusterfuck until it starts performing. I'm talking about actual performance not promises, not "next week", not "in the future" but actual mining income from all the hardware we supposedly bought distributed as dividends with 50% held back for reinvestment as per the contract.

Edit: Spelling
member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
Maybe Asicminer will have gen3 units in-hand and ready to sell in the next couple of months?  Has anyone been following them?  Their hardware has always been expensive, but they (AFAIK) have always only sold units in hand, shipped quickly, and delivered exactly as promised meaning the ROI calculation is straightforward, reliable, and low-risk.  Of course, on the other hand, (at least based upon their share price), gen3 might be vaporware itself and not something to rely upon...

FWIW, with the slowdown in network size increases, I have been running my 65nm BFL hardware longer than I anticipated and I think COG's BFL hardware will be economical to run for a while longer (the returns are small, but they more than offset cost to run still I believe).

Seems like a motion is appropriate, but I can see this working a few different ways:

1. Sell hardware, use proceeds to pay 100% div.  Raise COG.F3 if we need more funds for hardware purchase later
2. Sell hardware, use 50% of proceeds to pay div, keep 50% for reinvestment fund
3. Sell hardware, put it all in reinvestment fund

I think 3 is only reasonable if we have some other hardware to buy that we can have in-hand very soon (like, < 1 month).  Otherwise, I'd prefer 1 or 2.  Would 1 mean "the end of cog", or would there still be plenty of money left over for reinvestment in the next big thing?  Maybe to answer these questions, we need to see just how many CT machines we sell, and how much profit we can make from them.  Also, if some of the CT machines do work, or if we are able to run a smaller number of them reliably, maybe we don't sell them all - just a few.

Also, maybe before we are able to sell them, the data center comes through and magically fixes everything.  Who knows.  I'm still in favor of keeping our options open, so long as movement happens to keep as many options open as possible in the meantime.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1131
Alright everyone, Garrett has decided that we are going to sell all of the CoinTerra machines. They have been far too problematic, and at this point it is more profitable to sell them and buy new hardware. They will be up for sale on eBay and this forum starting tomorrow. As soon as the first couple units sell the sCrypt hardware will begin running again.
Now for responses to many of the questions that have recently been raised:
- In terms of compensation from CoinTerra, we will be compensated for all of the machines that were delivered, but were never actually hashing. Only 8 of the CT units were ever operational, so CoinTerra will compensate Cognitive for the rest that arrived but didn't work properly.
- Once our new space in Washington is ready, all of Cognitive's hardware will be moved there. It will be kept cool, the power will be reliable and cheap, and it will be monitored 24/7.

Finally !
Try to get the best price out of it. People are always willing to pay for the latest ASIC even if it's hard to setup and even if it cannot get a ROI.

We should ask everyone but I think it is time to stop buying vaporware.
No more science-fiction-hardware that need 8 months to deliver and that doesn't even work.

If you can find cheap or free electricity, GPU mining is the way to go.

Also, I suggested some time ago CPU mining. It's a very different business, very random but it's almost risk-free.


sr. member
Activity: 493
Merit: 262
So lets do some math!

Current eBay price for Cointerra terraminer iv = ~$10,000 (more like $9,500 with eBay fees shipping etc)
We have to sell 8 units, 8 x 9,500 = $76,000
Current Cog market cap = ~$271,000
271,000 - 84,000 = $195,000

The question: is the value of the other cognitive mining gear + Cointerra refund + 17.5 BTC we're holding > $195,000?

I would guess not...
While I don't completely disagree with you, I want to point out that book value != market cap in many cases. Look at Apple for example.
member
Activity: 109
Merit: 10
So lets do some math!

Current eBay price for Cointerra terraminer iv = ~$10,000 (more like $9,500 with eBay fees shipping etc)
We have to sell 8 units, 8 x 9,500 = $76,000
Current Cog market cap = ~$271,000
271,000 - 84,000 = $195,000

The question: is the value of the other cognitive mining gear + Cointerra refund + 17.5 BTC we're holding > $195,000?

I would guess not...
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
Alright everyone, Garrett has decided that we are going to sell all of the CoinTerra machines. They have been far too problematic, and at this point it is more profitable to sell them and buy new hardware. They will be up for sale on eBay and this forum starting tomorrow. As soon as the first couple units sell the sCrypt hardware will begin running again.

Now for responses to many of the questions that have recently been raised:

- In terms of compensation from CoinTerra, we will be compensated for all of the machines that were delivered, but were never actually hashing. Only 8 of the CT units were ever operational, so CoinTerra will compensate Cognitive for the rest that arrived but didn't work properly.

- Once our new space in Washington is ready, all of Cognitive's hardware will be moved there. It will be kept cool, the power will be reliable and cheap, and it will be monitored 24/7.

Garrett should allow some larger investors to come to the location and physically inspect the miners and see what is going on in person.

This would be a great way to demonstrate that Garret (and I) are running a clean operation. If someone would like to organize an inspection, go for it!


- Garrett and I would be happy to do an IRC meeting once the hardware is sold. We were also discussing the possibility of doing a google hangout where anyone who wants to can have their questions answered in real time, and we can all discuss various issues pertaining to Cognitive.


Thank you for your patience. As always, feel free to leave feedback.

- Samuel
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