Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack - page 33. (Read 136180 times)

Quote from: allten on July 29, 2012, 06:04:23 PM

I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.

He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC

I'm just going to comment here to say "Yes, this really is our attorney at BitInstant, and he is a trustworthy guy".

Either Patrick, myself or Charlie will post here in public once the funds have been turned over to the appropriate entity, but for now they are in safe hands with a licensed attorney (Patrick) and any creditors should feel free to call up his firm at Engage Legal if they have any concerns.

I believe so. He handled this matter very professionally and I'm going to continue recovering the fiat money from the hackers.

dree12

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Quote from: imsaguy on July 29, 2012, 05:48:28 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

It doesn't fit in my thinking at all. So the screenshot is either fake, or taken by someone who has actually dealt with Chen Jianhai.

Occam's Razor says that

Anyone using that as a postulate in a theorem clearly doesn't actually 'get' Occam's Razor.

Occam's Razor from wiki:

Quote

Overview

The principle is often incorrectly summarized as "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one." In practice, the application of the principle often shifts the burden of proof in a discussion.[a] The razor asserts that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power. The simplest available theory need not be most accurate. Philosophers point out also that the exact meaning of simplest may be nuanced.

Occam's Razor states that one should proceed assuming the simpler explanation, not that the simpler explanation is correct. And in this case, the more complex explanation has better explanatory power: it explains why the BTC were sold.

labestiol

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Quote from: Gareth Nelson on July 29, 2012, 06:06:34 PM

Quote from: virtuallylaw on July 29, 2012, 12:57:57 PM

Quote from: imsaguy on July 29, 2012, 05:48:28 PM

I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.

He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC

I'm just going to comment here to say "Yes, this really is our attorney at BitInstant, and he is a trustworthy guy".

Either Patrick, myself or Charlie will post here in public once the funds have been turned over to the appropriate entity, but for now they are in safe hands with a licensed attorney (Patrick) and any creditors should feel free to call up his firm at Engage Legal if they have any concerns.

Glad to see things finally moving in the good direction.
Thanks guys !

defxor

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Anyone using that as a postulate in a theorem clearly doesn't actually 'get' Occam's Razor.

Or uses the popular version. I could've stated that in science the hypothesis requiring the least amount of free variables is likely to be correct, I'm just not sure that would've made the point clearer.

defxor

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Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 05:38:03 PM

So, I have done a deal "for a friend" on AurumXchange using my own account.

And I have also done a deal "for a friend" on QQ using a friend's account?

Both happened before I had any clue of the investigation.

I did the deals, but all in much larger amounts with my own account.

So, this deal you did with a "friend's" account just happens to be the same account as "the hacker" created? I'm sorry, but that explanation can't even begin to satisfy your own quest for consonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#The_Belief_Disconfirmation_Paradigm

kgo

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Quote from: RoloTonyBrownTown on July 29, 2012, 05:39:09 PM

Well as far as I'm concerned there's still zero evidence that thus Chen person even exists. And now, just to add to the convenience, Zhou is refunding the USD from his own accounts.

Look, if in the future this mystery Chen person is actually arrested for this then I'll happily apologise to Zhou for doubting him, but as things stand now I find that extremely unlikely to happen.

Is it possible that Zhou is telling the truth, sure, but from all the evidence presented thus far that just simply isn't the likely scenario I'm afraid.

If all this fantastical stuff actually IS true then the way its gone down is extremely unfortunate for Zhou, as most of the evidence hes posting to exonerate himself just makes him look more guilty.

And I can't believe no-one has mentioned this yet, but even if I knew a multi-millionaire gangster was responsible I wouldn't put his name on a public forum. Such a criminal wouldn't have a problem putting a hit on me or my family members.

Gareth Nelson

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Quote from: virtuallylaw on July 29, 2012, 12:57:57 PM

Quote from: imsaguy on July 29, 2012, 05:48:28 PM

I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.

He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC

I'm just going to comment here to say "Yes, this really is our attorney at BitInstant, and he is a trustworthy guy".

Either Patrick, myself or Charlie will post here in public once the funds have been turned over to the appropriate entity, but for now they are in safe hands with a licensed attorney (Patrick) and any creditors should feel free to call up his firm at Engage Legal if they have any concerns.

allten

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You Don't Bitcoin 'till You Mint Coin

It doesn't fit in my thinking at all. So the screenshot is either fake, or taken by someone who has actually dealt with Chen Jianhai.

Occam's Razor says that

Anyone using that as a postulate in a theorem clearly doesn't actually 'get' Occam's Razor.

Occam's Razor from wiki:

Quote

Overview

The principle is often incorrectly summarized as "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one." In practice, the application of the principle often shifts the burden of proof in a discussion.[a] The razor asserts that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power. The simplest available theory need not be most accurate. Philosophers point out also that the exact meaning of simplest may be nuanced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

imsaguy

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Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.

It doesn't fit in my thinking at all. So the screenshot is either fake, or taken by someone who has actually dealt with Chen Jianhai.

Occam's Razor says that

Anyone using that as a postulate in a theorem clearly doesn't actually 'get' Occam's Razor.

RoloTonyBrownTown

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Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Well as far as I'm concerned there's still zero evidence that thus Chen person even exists. And now, just to add to the convenience, Zhou is refunding the USD from his own accounts.

Look, if in the future this mystery Chen person is actually arrested for this then I'll happily apologise to Zhou for doubting him, but as things stand now I find that extremely unlikely to happen.

Is it possible that Zhou is telling the truth, sure, but from all the evidence presented thus far that just simply isn't the likely scenario I'm afraid.

If all this fantastical stuff actually IS true then the way its gone down is extremely unfortunate for Zhou, as most of the evidence hes posting to exonerate himself just makes him look more guilty.

zhoutong

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The simplest explanation is that you didn't expect that someone who bought LR from you, the transactions you've so far claimed are completely unrelated and "for a friend", would match up the LR account to information released much later by aurumxchange.

So, I have done a deal "for a friend" on AurumXchange using my own account.

And I have also done a deal "for a friend" on QQ using a friend's account?

Both happened before I had any clue of the investigation.

I did the deals, but all in much larger amounts with my own account.

defxor

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Activity: 530

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Quote from: Aggro on July 25, 2012, 11:41:02 PM

It doesn't fit in my thinking at all. So the screenshot is either fake, or taken by someone who has actually dealt with Chen Jianhai.

Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is neither that someone, for no reason, created a screenshot where your QQ-account would start selling LR that when the transactions were made turned out to come from the LR account you yourself stated that the hacker created. Nor is the simplest explanation that you now all of a sudden would start to claim that "Chen" has hacked your QQ account to do deals.

The simplest explanation is that you didn't expect that someone who bought LR from you, the transactions you've so far claimed are completely unrelated and "for a friend", would match up the LR account to information released much later by aurumxchange.

* The Liberty Reserve account used by the hacker is U9236056.

Quote from: zhoutong on July 26, 2012, 12:28:00 AM

The $40,000 I exchanged at AurumXchange was indeed from a friend. Later I can also post proof that I exchanged another $30,000 at other exchanges during the same period. The total amount far exceeds the stolen amount claimed in the OP. My own Liberty Reserve account number is U7097615.

Quote from: zhoutong on July 26, 2012, 01:03:27 AM

The hacker registered a Liberty Reserve account U9236056 at Jul 12, 2012 9:42 PM.

vs

Quote from: cnbtcnews on July 26, 2012, 10:01:30 AM

Quote from: caveden on July 26, 2012, 09:45:00 AM

Quote from: cnbtcnews on July 26, 2012, 09:33:48 AM

I am the owner of www.cnbtcnews.com. I introduce bitcoin to chinese people.
The evidence is from one person of my qq group.
zhoutong sell LR, and he buy LR from zhoutong.

How does this person know for sure Zhou Thong was behind U9236056?

He buy LR from zhoutong ,zhoutong show the LR account and the total fund is $23439.57.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica

Select quotes:

Quote

The stories told are not entirely improbable and often have some element of truth. They are not a manifestation of delusion or some broader type of psychosis: upon confrontation, the teller can admit them to be untrue, even if unwillingly.

Quote

The stories told tend toward presenting the liar favorably. For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, knowing or being related to many famous people.

Quote

There are many consequences of being a pathological liar. Due to lack of trust, most pathological liars' relationships and friendships fail. If the disease continues to progress, lying could become so severe as to cause legal problems, including but not limited to fraud.

tbcoin

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Quote from: augustocroppo on July 29, 2012, 04:49:35 PM

Quote from: virtuallylaw on July 29, 2012, 12:57:57 PM

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC

The address presumably indicated by Patrick Murck was used twice before receive the 15,000 BTC. This indicate the address was not produced exclusively to receive the "stolen funds".

Quote

3023856a550ebb4e9b79a5e80af926f608fddee0749648e70ee3a01bc0f4592c 2012-07-29 07:31:43

14cwNLGkm5PWj5ghdwxs8J84VuryU7h5tq

12FWKX4v6auTnzN1xmxji8SdmtcEC5QdCx

1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

6.461 BTC

4f47dcd9db5518dc829b9fb6ab0f99f33e54032edc4b508e0deb1f702dcb36b4 2012-07-27 20:41:31

1MSvjiRBFd4WgJusnQWZoyxjfcxbRZwjtE

1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

0.1 BTC

http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

and...

augustocroppo

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Quote from: virtuallylaw on July 29, 2012, 12:57:57 PM

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC

The address presumably indicated by Patrick Murck was used twice before receive the 15,000 BTC. This indicate the address was not produced exclusively to receive the "stolen funds".

Quote

3023856a550ebb4e9b79a5e80af926f608fddee0749648e70ee3a01bc0f4592c 2012-07-29 07:31:43

14cwNLGkm5PWj5ghdwxs8J84VuryU7h5tq

12FWKX4v6auTnzN1xmxji8SdmtcEC5QdCx

1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

6.461 BTC

4f47dcd9db5518dc829b9fb6ab0f99f33e54032edc4b508e0deb1f702dcb36b4 2012-07-27 20:41:31

1MSvjiRBFd4WgJusnQWZoyxjfcxbRZwjtE

1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

0.1 BTC

http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

augustocroppo

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Quote from: zhoutong on July 29, 2012, 05:29:38 AM

I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.

He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.

Status: 4/unconfirmed, broadcast through 8 nodes
Date: 29/07/12 19:54
To: 1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV
Debit: -15000.00 BTC
Net amount: -15000.00 BTC
Transaction ID: b87922d693b3d3b66da385592a07147cf0b8f31f78057ebb212eb60745b58cf9

Quote

Summary
Size   1257 (bytes)
Received Time   2012-07-29 09:54:37
Included in blocks   191319 (2012-07-29 10:13:56 +19 minutes)
Confirmations:   93 confirmations
Relayed by ip   91.121.66.59 (whois)

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/13806782/b87922d693b3d3b66da385592a07147cf0b8f31f78057ebb212eb60745b58cf9

Vod

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Licking my boob since 1970

Quote from: davout on July 29, 2012, 04:26:22 PM

Quote from: Vod on July 29, 2012, 04:20:02 PM

And the story continues...

The peter griffin avatar suits you really well.

Thanks! I do like licking the boobies!

davout

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1davout

Quote from: Vod on July 29, 2012, 04:20:02 PM

And the story continues...

The peter griffin avatar suits you really well.

mc_lovin

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www.bitcointrading.com

Quote from: dree12 on July 29, 2012, 11:30:23 AM

I deal in upwards of $10,000

Must be nice Mr. Big Spender. You also steal in amounts above that.

allten

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You Don't Bitcoin 'till You Mint Coin

Quote from: vampire on July 29, 2012, 11:25:05 AM

Quote from: dree12 on July 29, 2012, 11:17:21 AM

Exactly. The thief must have been someone who was not interested in Bitcoin. Zhou is likely not that person.

Fall of bitcoinica won't the fall of bitcoin. The market didn't even pay attention.

If Zhou is innocent the court will clear him.

You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them.

This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.

It's extremely difficult to value that which you stole! Easy come, easy go.

Vod

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