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Topic: Steem pyramid scheme revealed - page 30. (Read 107069 times)

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
October 22, 2016, 12:13:52 PM
interested price dump from 3$ or how much its was maxx to 0.23$ omfg i see big lost some some  peoples...i am sure soon new pump will happen.

Market cap is still pretty high.. in the top 10. I saw this dump coming a mile away when it skyrocketed to 300+ million market cap. That was just not sustainable.

What is the most frightening is that there is only a little over 12 million liquid steem, ATM. Almost 180 million steem is tied up in the vesting pool. Just think of how unsustainable this will be in a year when there could be almost 100 million or more liquid steem running around in the wild. Powering up is becoming less and less enticing now. As more liquid steem is created, this will only cause a feedback loop IMHO.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
October 22, 2016, 12:12:36 PM
interested price dump from 3$ or how much its was maxx to 0.23$ omfg i see big lost some some  peoples...i am sure soon new pump will happen.

Market cap is still pretty high.. in the top 10. I saw this dump coming a mile away when it skyrocketed to 300+ million market cap. That was just not sustainable.

If it could have sustained adoption then that $300 million market cap was far too small.

And for as long as the rewards system is broken, one could argue the market cap is too high. But as we pointed out upthread, there is probably an equilibrium point at which it is not worth cashing out. I'm nearing that point as my weekly cashout is declining to $10. Soon it will only make sense for me to bother to stop by to transfer to Poloniex biweekly. And then eventually monthly. And then I'll probably just forget. If I was earning any other income, I wouldn't even be bother now with cashing out.

But the whales will probably continue to cash out for a long time, so unless there is some belief by investors that they will grow adoption (or engineer a pump) then it may continue to decline.

Also the ongoing inflation pretty much guarantees selling pressure and the only way for investors to counteract that is to powerup, but that locks up investment for 1 year (weighted average cashout).

I thought it might bottom out, but based on the above maybe not.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1010
Join The Blockchain Revolution In Logistics
October 22, 2016, 12:10:25 PM
@smooth the flaw in the design is rewards via voting.

The only way to make such a social network correctly is to have an objective reward system.  Wink  Lips sealed

Maybe true, but it would be a lot more flawed if 30K free scammed accounts could have significant influence.

well there is the f/n IRONY ... humanINTEL can id real content ... amplify that and you win ... stick with linear math ... steem_power_down ... forever!
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
October 22, 2016, 12:03:52 PM
interested price dump from 3$ or how much its was maxx to 0.23$ omfg i see big lost some some  peoples...i am sure soon new pump will happen.

Market cap is still pretty high.. in the top 10. I saw this dump coming a mile away when it skyrocketed to 300+ million market cap. That was just not sustainable.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
October 22, 2016, 11:52:40 AM
@smooth the flaw in the design is rewards via voting.

The only way to make such a social network correctly is to have an objective reward system.  Wink  Lips sealed

Maybe true, but it would be a lot more flawed if 30K free scammed accounts could have significant influence.

+1 because there is no upvote button here. Irony intended.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
October 22, 2016, 04:34:43 AM
@smooth the flaw in the design is rewards via voting.

The only way to make such a social network correctly is to have an objective reward system.  Wink  Lips sealed

Maybe true, but it would be a lot more flawed if 30K free scammed accounts could have significant influence.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
October 22, 2016, 12:54:18 AM
Did you ever connect with Ned and Dan?  Curious if any discussions came about?

Sorry no, I dropped the ball even though Ned responded and offered to speak with me. (Which I can partially blame on my bad health, which won't be resolved until after December at the earliest as I plan to head to a research hospital in Singapore)

Because as I analyzed the design I wanted to create, I became convinced that the whale structure of Steem would prevent any transition to the design I want to do. So then I thought what is the point of talking.

The Steemit Inc whale (the largest single holder by far) could I guess decide to reward its stake via some new objective mechanism that isn't voting. But I presumed they wouldn't be interested in doing that because it would mean giving up control over that stake. Also it would admit failure of the voting system, which would mean sort of admitting failure and would likely be disruptive to existing user base, specifically it might provoke mutiny by the whales. And I am not convinced also that just giving up control over the Steemit Inc stake is sufficient. The other whales hold a very significant stake and thus STEEM will always be at a disadvantage in terms of ecosystem incentive versus a project that does it correctly and avoids too much whale concentration.

When I say objective, it means the ecosystem must believe that the money supply can only be used for objective rewards. I think it is a necessary prerequisite for obtaining significant ecosystem growth.

For example, afaik @smooth has invested a lot (at least effort and thought) in the ecosystem of STEEM. If the distribution included 100 copies of @smooth, and then 100,000 objectively rewarded content producers, then we'd have a revolution going on.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
http://www.leocoinapp.com/
October 21, 2016, 11:46:48 PM
interested price dump from 3$ or how much its was maxx to 0.23$ omfg i see big lost some some  peoples...i am sure soon new pump will happen.
hero member
Activity: 547
Merit: 502
October 21, 2016, 11:29:09 PM
@smooth the flaw in the design is rewards via voting.

The only way to make such a social network correctly is to have an objective reward system.  Wink  Lips sealed

Did you ever connect with Ned and Dan?  Curious if any discussions came about?
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
October 21, 2016, 11:17:39 PM
@smooth the flaw in the design is rewards via voting.

The only way to make such a social network correctly is to have an objective reward system.  Wink  Lips sealed
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
October 21, 2016, 10:29:13 PM
People were getting paid quite well, at first. However, with the strong downward trend in the price at the markets for steem, the rewards are pretty insulting. Some people are getting almost 100 upvotes and not even earning a dollar. The curation rewards are even more paltry. For most people, it's not even worth the wear and tear on one's finger to click an upvote. Even the whales are scoring minimal curation rewards, these days. It was a good idea, but the initial distribution screwed this up big time, and I do not think it will every be able to overcome this initial flaw.

I agree with what you say, especially about the market decline killing the larger rewards, but there is a lot of confusion about number of upvotes. There are still posts with 100 or fewer real votes that get significant rewards ($100+)

There are an enormous number of bots with very low voting power. Some say that 50K or more of the registered accounts are just multiaccount farmers who harvested a lot of accounts with a good number of those finding their way to bot operators. (I don't know the actual number but I do know there are a lot,)

The system is designed to be sybil-resistant meaning getting ahold of 100 low-value accounts and upvoting a post should not really do much of anything. That's at least one part of the whole thing that actually works really well.

IMO the vote count should not be displayed at all, unless you decide to click through to vote details that show who actually voted and how much vote power each one has (the latter perhaps categorized into ranges). By displaying it, that creates a sort of vulnerability to sybil attacks where people are misled by a number that actually doesn't mean anything. Not my decision though, I can only make suggestions and in this case it has been ignored.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
October 21, 2016, 09:54:40 PM
Has there been any recent public road map?  I can't imagine they would be sitting still on the programing?

They are actively programming. The last major hardfork adjusted the posting reward by giving out steem as well as Steem Dollars and steem power for author rewards. The intention was to attempt to get the steem dollar closer to the peg of 1 dollar. Right now on Polo, the steem dollar is going for almost 93 cents, so i guess that is an improvement. However, now that the author rewards include liquid steem, that is probably exacerbating it bearish trend toward worthlessness.
hero member
Activity: 547
Merit: 502
October 21, 2016, 09:43:56 PM
Has there been any recent public road map?  I can't imagine they would be sitting still on the programing?
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828
October 21, 2016, 09:14:26 PM
Riding the Steemit pyramid once more:

The Red pill, Blue pill Election — NYC slumlord vs. Globalists

I put a lot of effort into that and I think it is quite insightful.

120 votes earns $3.62 on Steemit now. Be lucky if I can even get $1 of that actually out.

So that should most likely be my last post ever on Steemit.

Exactly as I predicted, it played out. Irrevocably destroyed by the whale concept.
first things first i am not a fan of steemit and i just dont find it amusing either but explained to my wife about it as she is a blogger and i want to know,why is it you are not possible to get the money out and what is the minimum amount you can withdraw from it, is it a legit project.

People were getting paid quite well, at first. However, with the strong downward trend in the price at the markets for steem, the rewards are pretty insulting. Some people are getting almost 100 upvotes and not even earning a dollar. The curation rewards are even more paltry. For most people, it's not even worth the wear and tear on one's finger to click an upvote. Even the whales are scoring minimal curation rewards, these days. It was a good idea, but the initial distribution screwed this up big time, and I do not think it will ever be able to overcome this initial flaw.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
October 21, 2016, 06:32:11 PM
Riding the Steemit pyramid once more:

The Red pill, Blue pill Election — NYC slumlord vs. Globalists

I put a lot of effort into that and I think it is quite insightful.

120 votes earns $3.62 on Steemit now. Be lucky if I can even get $1 of that actually out.

So that should most likely be my last post ever on Steemit.

Exactly as I predicted, it played out. Irrevocably destroyed by the whale concept.
first things first i am not a fan of steemit and i just dont find it amusing either but explained to my wife about it as she is a blogger and i want to know,why is it you are not possible to get the money out and what is the minimum amount you can withdraw from it, is it a legit project.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
October 21, 2016, 04:02:48 PM
Me on the other hand, I only have 1000 or so SP, which is less than $5/week... and next week it will be worth even less. So yeah, fuck it... I lost that money. I fell for the Steem scam

The question is whether STEEM will morph into something that will gain adoption and flourish.

Mrs.Steemit posted a chart which is a topic @smooth and others including myself have discussed in the past.



I believe the reason the adoption cycles are getting shorter is a combination of:

  • Instantaneous/ubiquitous access
  • Decentralized rollout and network effects
  • Information (thus economic) utility increasing due to rich media and symmetrical network effects of the participant is a publisher/producer, not only a reader/consumer
  • Technology becoming social

STEEM has a decentralized blockchain, but it doesn't have a decentralized ownership and rewards mechanism. That flaw inhibits the network effects that drive the enumerated list above. You can say that Facebook doesn't have decentralized ownership and that is irrelevant because Facebook provides rewards to the ecosystem in the form of economies-of-scale. Yet a truly decentralized system would trounce Facebook in speed-of-innovation.

To make a really powerful social and technology phenomenon with a blockchain, we will need massive network effects and a compelling use case.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
dafar consulting
October 21, 2016, 02:52:50 PM
Can't believe I dropped 3.5 BTC into SP lol... I knew it was a joke but thought just maybe it could continue the hype momentum for a while and the interest gained via SP would help, but nope. My wallet was worth $1500 then and around $400 now. I don't even know if I should power down... if this crazy inflation keeps up by the 50th week each payment is gonna be worth pennies

When I was telling you all what would happen from the start of this thread? Ditto when I said what would happen to Ethereum. I don't understand how anyone could have bought SP and locked up their funds for 1 year time weighted average.

Well it is useless for you to power down, you might as well hold and hope it recovers someday meanwhile all your captured inflation ongoing. My balance is 4000+ SP and it is hardly worth powering, since I get about $15 per week now and declining.

I was here near the beginning of this thread too, and I agreed with you for the most part... I just decided to take a chance hoping this hype train would actually work out. I was hoping maybe this is something special, even though locking up your investment for 2 years sounds stupid. The interest rate does not help you retain your value at all.... it's like your SP is designed to suck out your actual money and re-distribute it to everyone else, while SP is advertised as a "savings" account that will grow your money. It grows your SP but not what it's actually worth.


At least you get $15/week... I would power down if I were you. $15 worth of BTC today could be worth $30 in a month.

Me on the other hand, I only have 1000 or so SP, which is less than $5/week... and next week it will be worth even less. So yeah, fuck it... I lost that money. I fell for the Steem scam
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
October 21, 2016, 02:25:33 PM
There is at least one constant, inviolably by the Gaussian distribution, which is that the elite-most will always be able to manipulate the psychology of the masses and that will never change.

So if you think you will overrule their political power by any means, then you are futilely attempting to violate the inviolable Gaussian distribution.

I agree that individual empowerment via technology which can't be centralized is a reduction of the efficacy of political power. Problem is that most everything can be centralized via political force, especially when we put Smart meters on every home that track every movement and action every where.

To align with what Rothshild and Soros appear to be doing with Wikileaks, i.e. the manipulative/blackmail destruction of the nation-states in order to usher in global monetary and governance systems, a crypto-currency which is global, widely adopted, and stored on a blockchain seems to be synergistic to their goals.

If we can also put some anonymity technology in it which only the TPTB can violate, they will love this even more. Because it means privacy for the common person, but TPTB can blackmail anyone they wish to. Based on all my in-depth study of anonymity technology, it is impossible to be anonymous to the NSA if they want to track you they can. But TPTB are not going to have the resources to track every person who is using anonymity very carefully. They will have to pick those targets which are most valuable to them.

So my goal is to create something popular and further the inexorable and inevitable move towards globalism, while also providing the common person many new capabilities and also offer investors an enormous opportunity.

Enough of the bullshit about defeating TPTB, let's get on with competing with Mark Zuckerberg and the best of the best in the Silicon valley.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
October 19, 2016, 02:20:06 PM
Who agrees with me that the goal of defeating the powers-that-be with a blockchain should not be the goal?

It has been an important learning process for me.

There is absolutely no way you could get the Trump supporters to believe their savior Wikileaks is actually the source of their enslavement. You wouldn't even be allowed to get the message out to them.

There is no way you could create a popular Internet service and prevent it from being be co-opted by the elite.

You simply won't be allowed to.

We all here pretend we could be free. We won't succeed. None of us. Look yourself in the mirror and ask if you've come to grips with your enslavement or if you are still in denial.

If you've swallowed the blue pill, then there is nothing to say to you. If you've swallowed the red pill as I have, then its time to realize you are only free when you need nothing, not even to eat. When you walk away with nothing into the wilderness, then you are free. Free to die, free to be attacker by parasites and predators, and free to go hungry.


Create something popular with a viable business model. Even use a blockchain for the properties it can provide such as being both a speculation and a unit-of-exchange, but just forget about this nonsense ideology of defeating Soros with a blockchain. It isn't going to happen.

Help them spread crypto-currency over the globe, then maybe they won't mind you are offering an alternative to their Bitcoin plan. But don't go in thinking you can defeat the powers-that-be with technology.

Decentralization for enabling a huge ecosystem because no one has to trust the a centralized entity is good. Decentralization for trying to defeat the globalists is suicide.

Any agree or disagree?



part 1.

Everything is connected. Even Martin Armstrong talks about his data in terms of multiple variables. Here is a question, does the torrent network defeat TPTB? or the zeronet? or the legalization of cannabis? or growing our own food? or the internet? or social media? or 3d printing? or alt energy? or large gatherings of free people? or free market places? or freedom over our bodies? or freedom of religion? freedom of speech? free communication etc.

Is the power of TPTB in the regulation of these things? Does TPTB get weaker the more we exercise freedom from them? Do we even need a technology to BE FREE? It's like we are back to the Bill Clinton moment of what the definition of IS is. Who are TPTB and what are their powers and what does it mean to defeat them? If everything is connected then we are all connected and TPTB are also us, as in all 7.4 billion of us.

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Decentralization for enabling a huge ecosystem because no one has to trust the a centralized entity is good.

The human condition has caused political greed/power and has consistently wrecked societies for hundreds if not thousands of years. Would a shift in consciousness defeat TPTB? barring that, a technology that  "no one has to trust a centralized entity" is def a step in the right direction.

I never thought the blockchain was going to solely defeat TPTB. Rather TPTB have had a monopoly on various technologies. And in a nutshell TPTB act like spoiled brats and it's up to the adults to take away their toys. Once they have lost their powertoys then are they defeated?

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Decentralization for trying to defeat the globalists is suicide.
Not necessarily. I'd imagine the solution(s) which will spring from an uncontrolled decentralized source(s) will be like a snowball rolling downhill that was sparked by the hundredth monkey. I believe it will go, how you say...Viral.

more in pt 2

I've had similar thoughts and written them on Bitcointalk.

There is at least one constant, inviolably by the Gaussian distribution, which is that the elite-most will always be able to manipulate the psychology of the masses and that will never change.

So if you think you will overrule their political power by any means, then you are futilely attempting to violate the inviolable Gaussian distribution.

I agree that individual empowerment via technology which can't be centralized is a reduction of the efficacy of political power. Problem is that most everything can be centralized via political force, especially when we put Smart meters on every home that track every movement and action every where.

It seems to me that the next frontier for technology is transhumanism, so that we can escape from our physical bodies. That may be the only way to respond to asymmetrical political control. All our technological advance is being held hostage by the fact that we still live in these physical bodies which are so easy to subjugate with digital tracking. We need to raise the ante, by digitizing our existence so there isn't a choke point where our physical body interacts with the digital highway, e.g. the IP address. Once our existence is inside the digital highway, then anonymity becomes much more plausible because total orders don't exist.

180 IQ Freeman Dyson got me thinking about this aspect when he pointed out we are shifting to horizontal gene transfer, i.e. mix-and-match species:

Quote
Quote
I would argue that it will play out over a longer period of time.
Here is the Jewish view on the future and how it will play out.

http://www.beingjewish.com/soul/future.html

If I believe it, does that alone make it real.

It makes it real for you

That was my point. ;-)

Btw, the following points by Freeman Dyson are going to tantalize your mind:

https://www.edge.org/discourse/dawkins_dyson.html

Now I understand why Eric S. Raymond (160 IQ) said he felt like the slow kid in the family when he ate breakfast with the Dysons.

Dyson is speaking about what CoinCube had pointed out about a balance between evolving too fast and losing too much information versus not evolving fast enough.

As it turns out, Dyson is correct that evolving too fast remains always the outcome (see his reply to Richard Dawkins), as nature routes around the mature species by chaotically rendering it extinct.

Thus I was correct to favor a higher rate of disobedience within the species and also because Dyson seems to be correct that horizontal transfer is exponentially faster than Darwinian evolution! I need to spend some more time thinking about all the implications of this and make a followup to my article "INformation is Alive!".

Dyson declared in 2000 that he is a non-denomination Christian. They say his IQ is in the 180 range.

I don't have as high an IQ as him (I lack the memory and fast computational engine), but I share his love for being a contrarian and I do seem to have a very IQ in terms of mapping concepts in my mind (but I first have to get rid of all the symbols and other translational noise that clutters my parallel visualization engine, because I don't have an exceptional IQ in the realm of I/O and sequential processing).
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
dafar consulting
October 19, 2016, 09:20:17 AM
Can't believe I dropped 3.5 BTC into SP lol... I knew it was a joke but thought just maybe it could continue the hype momentum for a while and the interest gained via SP would help, but nope. My wallet was worth $1500 then and around $400 now. I don't even know if I should power down... if this crazy inflation keeps up by the 50th week each payment is gonna be worth pennies

When I was telling you all what would happen from the start of this thread? Ditto when I said what would happen to Ethereum. I don't understand how anyone could have bought SP and locked up their funds for 1 year time weighted average.

Well it is useless for you to power down, you might as well hold and hope it recovers someday meanwhile all your captured inflation ongoing. My balance is 4000+ SP and it is hardly worth powering, since I get about $15 per week now and declining.


I think I was around from the start-mid start of this thread, I bought in before Steem reached $1 and pumped to $3.5 .... I took a chance hoping that maybe this was something special and would pay off before going belly up. I knew locking your investment for 2 years was a trap but took the chance anyway.

I agree though, might as well not power down. Although for you $15/week in BTC isn't terrible. It may be worth it when BTC rallys
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