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Topic: Steem pyramid scheme revealed - page 34. (Read 107069 times)

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
September 02, 2016, 11:20:35 PM
Relevant portion of quoted post:

The onboarding problem that every crypto has is the same. They can't get many users until they have many users.

Afaik, Synereo has no viable plan to solve that onboarding problem. People buying AMPs to promote content to users, doesn't work until you have many users. It is always the chicken or egg dilemma. Steem has showed how to onboard cryptogeeks, @dollarvigilante followers, and their gfs. But afaics (and stats agree) hasn't figured out how to onboard the masses.

I am interested to see what happens with Synereo. I am mostly biting my tongue lately about Synereo (although I commented freely in the recent Steemit.com blog about it), but I offer this summary above of my opinion.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
September 02, 2016, 09:32:39 AM
This pretty much sums it up and explains the 50% decline in usage in one month...

There is no 50% decline in usage aside from spambots.

The internal data is horribly corrupted by various rule changes (including some targeted at spam/spambots) and exploits (for example almost all new accounts by number are scammers).

External data show continued growth, but too slow to get anywhere significant if one extrapolates linearly.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@gavvet/the-state-of-steemit-com-growth
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com

Thanks for that update. I haven't been updating myself on those the past 2-3 weeks or so.

Again very valuable experiment. Not likely to be the combination that onboards millions. But still awaiting ecosystem developments, which could alter the analysis.

(P.S. I believe I can do much better in Asia and developing world than Steem is, because of the type of content activity)

You could aslo view some info here

https://www.google.ru/trends/explore?date=all&q=steem

https://www.google.ru/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=steemit

There is a trend decline, but its not 50%

Thank you, that is a great additional data source I didn't think of. I will revise my post.
hero member
Activity: 1203
Merit: 508
Manager of looking busy #citizencosmos
September 02, 2016, 08:58:49 AM
This pretty much sums it up and explains the 50% decline in usage in one month...

There is no 50% decline in usage aside from spambots.

The internal data is horribly corrupted by various rule changes (including some targeted at spam/spambots) and exploits (for example almost all new accounts by number are scammers).

External data show continued growth, but too slow to get anywhere significant if one extrapolates linearly.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@gavvet/the-state-of-steemit-com-growth
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com

Thanks for that update. I haven't been updating myself on those the past 2-3 weeks or so.

Again very valuable experiment. Not likely to be the combination that onboards millions. But still awaiting ecosystem developments, which could alter the analysis.

(P.S. I believe I can do much better in Asia and developing world than Steem is, because of the type of content activity)

You could aslo view some info here

https://www.google.ru/trends/explore?date=all&q=steem

https://www.google.ru/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=steemit

There is a trend decline, but its not 50%
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
September 02, 2016, 01:46:09 AM
Extra motivation to destroy the Steem(it) whale model asap:

@misgivings is promulgating social decadence. He advising men and women to destroy their productivity and spend all their time on unproductive animalism.

Whales upvoting this shit over and over again.

Steem is descending into a cesspool culture.

=> https://steemit.com/msgivings/@bacchist/is-msgivings-a-sock-puppet-account  Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
September 02, 2016, 01:30:19 AM
This pretty much sums it up and explains the 50% decline in usage in one month...

There is no 50% decline in usage aside from spambots.

The internal data is horribly corrupted by various rule changes (including some targeted at spam/spambots) and exploits (for example almost all new accounts by number are scammers).

External data show continued growth, but too slow to get anywhere significant if one extrapolates linearly.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@gavvet/the-state-of-steemit-com-growth
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com

Thanks for that update. I haven't been updating myself on those the past 2-3 weeks or so.

Again very valuable experiment. Not likely to be the combination that onboards millions. But still awaiting ecosystem developments, which could alter the analysis.

(P.S. I believe I can do much better in Asia and developing world than Steem is, because of the type of content activity)
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
September 02, 2016, 12:41:01 AM
Now that CK's back--I can get a life.

https://steemit.com/poetry/@generalizethis/a-steemit-poem
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Founder of CoExistCoin
September 02, 2016, 12:33:01 AM
In the mean time let stry and HELP people rather than tear them down


https://steemit.com/charity/@coexist/lets-coexist-on-steemit
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
September 02, 2016, 12:23:44 AM
This pretty much sums it up and explains the 50% decline in usage in one month...

There is no 50% decline in usage aside from spambots.

The internal data is horribly corrupted by various rule changes (including some targeted at spam/spambots) and exploits (for example almost all new accounts by number are scammers).

External data show continued growth, but too slow to get anywhere significant if one extrapolates linearly.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@gavvet/the-state-of-steemit-com-growth
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com

EDIT:

Google searches show a decline though (credit serejandmyself):

https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=steemit
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
September 01, 2016, 11:54:29 PM
Where 50 rich Lords rule over large masses of penniless Serfs for all eternity...
In fact, eerily similar to the Hunger Games where Lords dispense lottery rewards to the odd Serf...

The Larimer games does have kind of a nice ring to it.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
September 01, 2016, 10:00:00 PM
Okay this seems to be an ideological protest of banks, not a fleeing to a safer store-of-value...

Yeah that did seem to kinda come along with the sort of Occupy Wallstreet movements, but that seemed too frivolous to actually become substantial and sustained.

...

I don't think we will get mass adoption with ideology for numerous reasons:

1. Ideological priorities are not unified all over the world. Philippines has acted forcefully on anti-corruption by electing Durterte! Westerners are apparently too divided to get it done (quickly, e.g. BREXIT an arduous process).
2. Ideology runs in short phases and not sustainable.
3. Humans are more self-interested and any ideological BS is usually when they are wasting time (and they eventually realize it).

I believe we only reach our goal by giving people something they selfishly need and want (and it must also be fun), which they can't get otherwise.

Did @dantheman read the above post of mine?

Those who practice meditation or follow Eckhart Tolle know that all suffering is something we put ourselves through by resisting the world as it is now, this very moment.

Try explaining to my gf last week when she couldn't afford to eat more than once daily (just some rice and salt), that meditation can cure all suffering. She was extremely irritable on the phone and her ulcer was flaring up. I sent her an additional $3 per day to supplement her nutrition (we had an agreement that she was going to try her best to see if she could survive doing her mother's barbecue business for 1 month while I work hard here). Her family is suffering and I wish I could help them more. Hopefully soon I will be able to. She will return in October to attend school and she will eat well here with me. Note I had already given her about $150 for her bus travel, and she spent remainder on school supplies for the kids there. Also she prioritized soap and cleanliness.

That is indicative of how I characterize the prominent culture of Steemit. Which zeroSum summed up nicely. Many (top ranked blogs) are into BS/useless mental babble, philosophy. Americans used to be "uncultured" (Europeans said we were unsophisticated) pragmatic doers.

Freudian slip or does he mean to avoid a world governance?

Quote
Each day I act to bring about a non-violent solutions to world governance

If I wanted to waste some time, I could write a rebuttal entitled:

Every Megadeath Originates With an Idealistic Propaganda Culture (e.g. Non-Violence)
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
September 01, 2016, 09:26:11 PM
Personally, I would prefer a realistic Roadmap and Business Plan (in addition to the call for Revolution).

Agreed.

Also agreed very much with how you characterized it in your post. The rhetoric is acceptable (perhaps even inspiring, but more inspiring are results) if it accompanies a realistic improvement in the state-of-affairs.

Then again, I still want to show some appreciation for what they have demonstrated. They have demonstrated some important facets and opened the eyes of investors to what might be possible.

I personally am okay with if they can extract some profit from this experiment. I feel they've worked hard and made some changes in the crypto world. Of course it helps that I am not the one who invested any money in it. For those that did, all I can say is that they can learn.

And again, I want to reiterate that it is not unfathomable that via open source ecosystem developments, that Steem could end up something more than what it is today. Because I don't want Steem supporters to think I am totally closed minded to that possibility. I just don't view it as likely because of the whale dynamics of the (reward and DPoS) system.

I continue to support Steem as a valuable experiment. No matter what happens, we are learning. We can apply those lessons to the next improvement.


Redacted mention of my vaporware, was moved to the appropriate thread.
legendary
Activity: 1588
Merit: 1000
September 01, 2016, 12:25:31 PM
My point about the comment rewards was simply that a couple $s per day is not very motivating for most people. And the activity on the site is not that compelling for most people. There are already other blogging sites as well. And much larger audiences.

You've got some hardcore crypto enthusiasts hanging in there, but you do not have any traction whatsoever in gaining the mainstream. Now some argue that from a niche demographic, you can bootstrap to a wider demographic, e.g. Facebook launched to college students initially.

But realize please that college students are already a diverse mainstream demographic (not a pigeon-hole circle-jerk of cryptogeeks and their gfs, although I've seen a few content authors who might have been entirely from outside of crypto but i am not sure and they don't appear to be numerous). And what Facebook was offering was unique, new, and compelling to the mainstream.

This pretty much sums it up and explains the 50% decline in usage in one month...
And the idea that professional writers were to be hosted on Steemit is a distant, abandoned illusion.

Then it gets interesting as Dan today posts a call to Revolution...
To build an "illusive utopia" and a "new social structure", etc.

https://steemit.com/philosophy/@dantheman/why-do-we-fight-to-change-the-world


On it's face this is a perfectly decent article of millennial, crypto-anarchist rhetoric...
In a cozy American world where you've never missed a meal and Hitler is a Youtube meme...
And dedicated Islamists with dirty nuclear bombs and mutant viruses can be safely ignored for a few more years.   

But the author seems unaware that he recently recreated the Medieval Order on a blockchain...
Where 50 rich Lords rule over large masses of penniless Serfs for all eternity...
In fact, eerily similar to the Hunger Games where Lords dispense lottery rewards to the odd Serf...
Something that can be viewed as "utopia" only by a rich Lord.

Personally, I would prefer a realistic Roadmap and Business Plan (in addition to the call for Revolution).
hero member
Activity: 1203
Merit: 508
Manager of looking busy #citizencosmos
September 01, 2016, 07:58:27 AM
The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?"

I'm not at all convinced the "average poster" will think that. The subset of users who are trying to be professionals or are gamers by nature may do that, but many will not. What you are doing in terms of commenting and posting whenever you feel like it, and the rewards are whatever they are (and always infinitely more than reddit or Facebook), seems quite typical to me. If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.

To add more, if someone thinks that they can earn by blogging without commenting, they are a bit strange.... i really havent met a person who thinks that he can ride a car but doesnt need to tace care of it every now and again.

Of course no one makes anyone comment, but the mere fact of a social network (which is what steemit is so far) is to share once thoughts, comment, post, like, unline... participate
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
August 31, 2016, 11:39:03 PM
The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?"

I'm not at all convinced the "average poster" will think that. The subset of users who are trying to be professionals or are gamers by nature may do that, but many will not. What you are doing in terms of commenting and posting whenever you feel like it, and the rewards are whatever they are (and always infinitely more than reddit or Facebook), seems quite typical to me. If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.

Agree. I continue to comment on issues that are important to me and has nothing to do with whether I will get paid. I was surprised to receive $11 for a comment I made on @stellabelle's recent blog about Synereo (well that is because you and several others upvoted it). But I am not going out-of-my-way to go comment there. Just on issues that I feel are important when I happen to check the top ranked posts on the site.

The issue is not that of those who bothered to join and continue to use the site, that those people won't comment without getting paid. Rather the issue is what incentive do millions of people have to join Steemit and how many tokens can we widely distribute (to millions of REAL HUMAN users, not Sybil attacks which may be the bulk of new signups) both of which are necessary to build a commerce ecosystem which could justify the entire project. I am not seeing it and the stats are tending to prove I was correct in my assumption. Yes other ecosystem apps may be on the way, so we will have to see how that might change matters, but I doubt they will implement any activity and rewards scheme which accomplishes the goal. Why? Because they think differently than I do. Wink

My point about the comment rewards was simply that a couple $s per day is not very motivating for most people. And the activity on the site is not that compelling for most people. There are already other blogging sites as well. And much larger audiences.

You've got some hardcore crypto enthusiasts hanging in there, but you do not have any traction whatsoever in gaining the mainstream. Now some argue that from a niche demographic, you can bootstrap to a wider demographic, e.g. Facebook launched to college students initially.

But realize please that college students are already a diverse mainstream demographic (not a pigeon-hole circle-jerk of cryptogeeks and their gfs, although I've seen a few content authors who might have been entirely from outside of crypto but i am not sure and they don't appear to be numerous). And what Facebook was offering was unique, new, and compelling to the mainstream.

If we were paying well the users, then that would be something unique, new, and perhaps compelling to the mainstream. But we aren't. That was my point.

All the stats are flat to declining since July. Again perhaps some ecosystem developments can change that. I do not expect it. I've been observing carefully the ideas people have been tossing around that I have had the opportunity to read about and I haven't seen anything yet that would change my expectation. I certainly not aware of all the developments though.

I hope that is a balanced assessment. I am obviously biased because I think I have a better idea and design. So readers should take my bias and potential subjectivity into consideration. Then again, @smooth and others perhaps are biased the other direction.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
August 31, 2016, 08:24:27 PM
Yeah I think "average" is exaggerated. No it's not average behavior, indeed. It's gaming behavior like the one we had around a month ago.

There was an initial surge in comments and you could see people were trying to game it. There were bots making automated "conversation", there were human bots writing something like "wow very helpful!!!", there were people who didn't even read what you wrote and commented something that was irrelevant or half-relevant (some still do it), there were people who were posting (intelligent) comments in a serial fashion trying to make a buck, etc etc.

As rewards dropped and as the flagging threat elevated, it kind of slowed down. There still is some gaming attempted (bots running around and making idiotic comments, or upvoting old posts and saying "upvoted you") but it'll probably slow down further.

Quote
If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.

Yep...
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
August 31, 2016, 06:14:29 PM
The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?"

I'm not at all convinced the "average poster" will think that. The subset of users who are trying to be professionals or are gamers by nature may do that, but many will not. What you are doing in terms of commenting and posting whenever you feel like it, and the rewards are whatever they are (and always infinitely more than reddit or Facebook), seems quite typical to me. If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
August 31, 2016, 05:09:03 PM
My comment posting is not steady though - I was writing more in July than now - and that's like buying more lottery tickets (casino effect) to hit the jackpot but as I said earlier the introduction of the sliding bar kind of eliminated the jackpot effect, and, in a way, disincentivized commenting.

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?" Personally I don't do that - I comment on what I find interesting - if my time allows of course (lately that's not so much the case) disregarding the incentives or disincentives. If I want to be near the 1$ per comment mark, I actually think I can do that - even now with the payout reduction and slidebars. BUT... I'd have to not write on topics that are of interest to me and only in things which might have good upvote potential. This can also be antisocial / rude (for example realizing you'll get 0$ if you continue a conversation or answer something, and not wanting to answer it just to keep your $/comment rate high... obviously this is not a good thing to do in terms of human interaction).

For too much cognitive load for mainstream people to think about.

Bottom line is most people won't be earning $1 per comment post.

Yep, not likely.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
August 31, 2016, 04:59:44 PM
My comment posting is not steady though - I was writing more in July than now - and that's like buying more lottery tickets (casino effect) to hit the jackpot but as I said earlier the introduction of the sliding bar kind of eliminated the jackpot effect, and, in a way, disincentivized commenting.

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?" Personally I don't do that - I comment on what I find interesting - if my time allows of course (lately that's not so much the case) disregarding the incentives or disincentives. If I want to be near the 1$ per comment mark, I actually think I can do that - even now with the payout reduction and slidebars. BUT... I'd have to not write on topics that are of interest to me and only in things which might have good upvote potential. This can also be antisocial / rude (for example realizing you'll get 0$ if you continue a conversation or answer something, and not wanting to answer it just to keep your $/comment rate high... obviously this is not a good thing to do in terms of human interaction).

For too much cognitive load for mainstream people to think about.

Bottom line is most people won't be earning $1 per comment post.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
August 31, 2016, 03:33:02 PM
My comment posting is not steady though - I was writing more in July than now - and that's like buying more lottery tickets (casino effect) to hit the jackpot but as I said earlier the introduction of the sliding bar kind of eliminated the jackpot effect, and, in a way, disincentivized commenting.

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?" Personally I don't do that - I comment on what I find interesting - if my time allows of course (lately that's not so much the case) disregarding the incentives or disincentives. If I want to be near the 1$ per comment mark, I actually think I can do that - even now with the payout reduction and slidebars. BUT... I'd have to not write on topics that are of interest to me and only in things which might have good upvote potential. This can also be antisocial / rude (for example realizing you'll get 0$ if you continue a conversation or answer something, and not wanting to answer it just to keep your $/comment rate high... obviously this is not a good thing to do in terms of human interaction).
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
August 31, 2016, 02:57:08 PM
I agree I'm not a mainstream case, but the numbers are there. It took me quite a while to go over 45 pages of steemd history, but anyway here is the breakdown of comment-only rewards that exceed 1$.

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-sharkolate-please-read-voting-power-should-be-equal-vote-or-not-but-please-comment-last-post-didn-t-upload-correctly-20160718t014317683z"
sbd_payout   101.037 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-jasonstaggers-how-my-most-painful-investing-mistake-could-make-you-a-steemillionaire-20160724t002415394z"
sbd_payout   60.318 SBD

author_reward
author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-masteryoda-why-i-removed-all-my-posts-20160725t071916073z"
sbd_payout   177.270 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-ozchartart-usdsteem-btc-technical-analysis-20160726t045759842z"
sbd_payout   118.173 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-jamtaylor-to-catch-a-whale-what-do-they-think-about-all-this-whale-talk-and-how-do-we-get-their-attention-20160727t230329783z"
sbd_payout   209.834 SBD

----

781 SBD. So the screen payouts would be 2082$ and the SBD+SP payout minus curation would be 1562$.

My post count is 1280, including blog entries, so it's definitely >1$/comment. (Again, I've not included all payouts less than 1$ - which add up too).

All of those comment homeruns occurred in July when whales were not diluting their votes sufficiently. Competition was low and the market cap was a peak in July. You haven't hit any comment homeruns in more than month.

The rest of your income and the only significant income you are earning recently come from blog posts, not comments.

Thus your actual earnings per comment are much below $1 as I predicted.

I knew comments would become nearly worthless once the whales started diluting their votes.
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