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Topic: Steem pyramid scheme revealed - page 71. (Read 107058 times)

legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
July 26, 2016, 01:36:23 AM
Note Steemit is accumulating numerous copyright violations. I've read it is $150 per infraction in potential liability.

From what I understand, all videos and pictures are linked externally. At the blockchain level there is only a url link - which may respond now but not after 3 years.

Copying text could be another issue though.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 26, 2016, 12:35:20 AM
steem is only coin altcoin new altcoin
but distributed coin to social media distribution equal and same facebook or twitter
but in steam every activity post vote and more we are paid coin steemit
not mining not pos not pow so majority coin is still in hand founder and owner steemit coin
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
July 26, 2016, 12:28:31 AM
I could literally start an online school from my crappy apartment, without having to explain why I don't have a graduate degree (but the tests verify I have the knowledge base).

https://steemit.com/poetry/@jdevans/in-the-rain

--see coments
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
July 26, 2016, 12:03:20 AM
They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

It is impossible they don't notice it. Subconsciously it is in their eurphoria.

Their subconscious has been trained to know money makes people happy.

Maybe when the amounts get big (successful bloggers, stars, other pros, etc.). The successful bloggers do want to promote their posts though, so they seem to often value moderate amounts of SP for its utility at least at market value, so even then I'm not sure until the amounts get quite large.

But if someone builds up a $100-200 from modest rewards on comments and posts, then they're going to take the liquid Steem Dollars as their reward and not be interesting cashing out $1-2/week from their Steem Power for the next two years. That's just not how people think. The SP is not what they see as the cash reward, the SD is.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
July 25, 2016, 11:35:22 PM
Your "FUD" are my facts. It will end just the same as all those Ethereum supporters who said similarly. And then I had the last Bruce Wanker laugh on them, and eventually on you too.

Can you see what you are doing? There is reason you are being "Judged"

Do you think I care? I am just pointing you to the mirror. I don't want to join your circle-jerk. If you had something really viable that wasn't going to hurt many people as The DAO did, then I would be enthusiastic. Steem's collapse will be more interesting than The DAO in that we will have the names of the victims. We'll be able to compile stories of mothers who handed money to insiders that they could have spent on their children. It will be the posterchild of blockchains used to explain to the masses why blockchains are predatory scams wrapped in fantastical delusions of grandeur.

I think this mother has abandoned and oh my she transferred money into Steem (a victim):

https://steemit.com/@danielaonsteem

You are equating (as equals) my analysis (some Judging, but it is largely Thinking and some iNtuition) of an inanimate object to which you happen to be apparently very attached to, with your Judging of a person (myself). Which btw, is another shard of evidence of the delusional helium in the air of those supporting Steemit.

Judging Others

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Ethereum... The DAO....   quotes from the bible.... "inocent victims"....   all fit well in the "Steem pyramid scheme revealed" thread

tl;dr of your post is Leave the FUDer alone..
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 11:16:18 PM
Your "FUD" are my facts. It will end just the same as all those Ethereum supporters who said similarly. And then I had the last Bruce Wanker laugh on them, and eventually on you too.

Can you see what you are doing? There is reason you are being "Judged"

Do you think I care? I am just pointing you to the mirror. I don't want to join your circle-jerk. If you had something really viable that wasn't going to hurt many people as The DAO did, then I would be enthusiastic. Steem's collapse will be more interesting than The DAO in that we will have the names of the victims. We'll be able to compile stories of mothers who handed money to insiders that they could have spent on their children. It will be the posterchild of blockchains used to explain to the masses why blockchains are predatory scams wrapped in fantastical delusions of grandeur.

I think this mother has abandoned and oh my she transferred money into Steem (a victim):

https://steemit.com/@danielaonsteem

You are equating (as equals) my analysis (some Judging, but it is largely Thinking and some iNtuition) of an inanimate object to which you happen to be apparently very attached to, with your Judging of a person (myself). Which btw, is another shard of evidence of the delusional helium in the air of those supporting Steemit.

Judging Others

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.



I guess another ban is coming because the Steemit supporters are petitioning the moderators just like the Ethereum supporters did:

The voting and reward algorithm in Steem seems to me to have a fundamental flaw.

If they made voting rewards linear, then all SP holders could simply vote for their own posts and recover their share of the dilution of the money supply. The game theory would be there is no financial incentive to vote for posts of others (although there might be an incentive for minnows who value the site functionality more than the tiny bit of rewards they control).

So instead they made rewards quadratic and even time incentivized so that you have to risk your vote on a post that you can't be sure will gain you the most rewards (since you don't know which post all the other users will vote on until later, which is why the votes are time incentivized to vote early). That also had the hype benefit of creating posts with exaggerated $50,000 rewards due these non-linear amplification algorithms.

But the quadratic and time incentivization game theory highly favors whales who can collude since the remove the risks the algorithms intended to create yet the colluding whales can take all the non-linear reward amplifications. I am not saying whales are colluding now, but for example if the media moguls can obtain significant stake and then accumulate 100% of the tokens over time by this game theory strategy thus controlling ranking of content on the site.

I believe the only solution to this is to let users control their own ranking algorithms (so whales can't predict rankings even if they collude on voting) and votes for computing rewards should always be linearly tallied. In other words, rankings need to be truly decentralized else the entire system is a clusterfuck back to centralized media control again. Meaning that if you only vote for yourself, you voting pattern make not align with like-mindedness with others thus you may have no influence on the ranking of your posts on the site, so you lose income from the votes of others. Meaning if you vote for yourself, you opt out of blogging.

Meaning I see no solution to the fact that it is impossible to incentivize whales to vote meaningfully and it is impossible to charge whales for the voting of minnows1! Dan's communism fails.

I'll be reading over @theoretical's blogs to see if I have made any errors or incorrect assumptions. I'll update you if I find any.

1 I do see one solution to this where whales are charged for voting but not allowed to vote but it can't work in the Dan's current design where STEEM are debased 50% yearly because obviously whales won't decide to hold STEEM.


I remember now that long ago (perhaps it was 2014) I already gone down this wild goose chase of voting from shared debasement and had realized it was fundamentally flawed and can't work.

Steemit is fucked. There is no way to fix this. Absolutely impossible. Fugetaboutit.

What they did was put the whales in control so they could over pay for blogs to generate the delusional to-da-moon groupthink.

I can't think of any way sure way to fix it. We might hope if we adopt my solution quoted above and make the forced voting small enough, that minnows will just vote their conscience (because it is a hassle otherwise perhaps), in that case maybe it works. But the whales will still opt out by voting themselves, so the minnows end up paying for all the blogging, which means it won't have sufficient funding. Power-law distribution rules.

If whales have a huge incentive to be restricted from voting (e.g. they don't have to hold for 2 years), then perhaps you can charge the debasement to them. But if the minnows are voting with the whales' share, then the minnows have more incentive to vote for themselves.

It just doesn't seem to work no matter how we design it.

Steemit's whales can justify throwing away money because they know otherwise they can't cash out. This is still a ponzi scheme and race to the exits before everyone realizes the voting system is totally dysfunctional. It will become more and more apparently over time.

They may be hoping they can get enough users into the system to begin some ecosystem work on microtransactions. Maybe the big lie in the voting algorithm is just a stopgap measure to onboard users. But I really can't see this group of developers ever succeeding because they seem to be always about fooling people.

Solid businesses are built on solid ethics.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
July 25, 2016, 11:04:41 PM
Edit: I guess you didn't notice I was awake 24 hours straight yesterday (and given my illness that is like saying you had been awake for 48 hours straight). And written I don't know how many detailed technical and marketing analysis BCT posts yesterday.

If lack of sleep is the root cause of your FUDing crusade then perhaps we can forgive you


WHERE IS YOUR PHOTO?

Are you sure you want an answer?


You can criticize those of us who put our real photo and LinkedIn account online

I don't give a F@#$% about "LinkedIn" or your photos and I only "criticize" those of you that mix up, lies, "miscalculations" misinformation, and FUD with a "healthy" amount of "facts" in an attempt to make it sound "legitimate".


yet you are hiding you weasel. You dish it out but can you also allow yourself to be exposed?

I'm not a "weasel" and btw why should I "expose" myself?  would this benefit you or your FUDing crusade?


Ah you are INTJ and I am ENTP, so that explains some of the reason we are not going to get along well. You hide and judge. I discuss and perceive.

It is all about production. That is all that will matter in the end.

That is why I don't want to join some clusterfuck circle-jerk one-size-fits-all ("winner take all" power vacuum) where I have to kiss ass on INTJs. You should be filtered out of my coterie and myself filtered out of yours. You go hang out with your INTJ types and I will go hang out with the extroverts who prefer production and discussion over judgemental impossible perfection.

Can you see what you are doing? There is reason you are being "Judged"


sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 10:42:55 PM
They think they are giving away money for free. Printing money out-of-thin-air but they don't think of it that way.

Yes

Feels great at the start doesn't it. Ponzi are always eurphoric until they leave everyone entirely pissed off at the end.

They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

It is impossible they don't notice it. Subconsciously it is in their eurphoria.

Their subconscious has been trained to know money makes people happy.

And they think maybe some of that karma will come back to them. They think everyone on Steem is so happy something better than their actual lives or other Internet sites.

Welcome to social media. Every single social media platform in existence consists in large part of people making their lives look better than they actually are, or occasionally posting drama for the voyeuristic enjoyment of others.

But Facebook can actually keep that illusion alive because it is trading virtual goods. My gf still feels good when she sees a cute dog. That is the reason she is on Fb.

Steemit is trading real money and the bubble only lasts for as long as everyone continues to POWER UP everything.

Eventually people want to start cashing out.

The reality that is likely to hit before that is the realization that giving money away for free creates a lot of discord, jealousy, game theory, anger, etc.. That has already started and it will grow worse and worse. Guaranteed.

Remember in the beginning that free money greases the wheels and everyone is extra nice. But later the reality of human nature will come out.

If Steem was building actual vocations for people or building a sustainable happy illusion, then it would have legs.

Can Dan magically create an ecosystem from this start that gives people vocations and/or is sustainable happy illusion? My bet is that Dan only knows what Dan has always demonstrated he is good at. Which is how to combine people together into some financial scheme where you earn interest or some dividend. All of his designs have been like that.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
July 25, 2016, 10:37:26 PM
They think they are giving away money for free. Printing money out-of-thin-air but they don't think of it that way.

Yes

Quote
They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

Quote
And they think maybe some of that karma will come back to them. They think everyone on Steem is so happy something better than their actual lives or other Internet sites.

Welcome to social media. Every single social media platform in existence consists in large part of people making their lives look better than they actually are, or occasionally posting drama for the voyeuristic enjoyment of others.

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 10:35:36 PM
That is why mom doesn't join.

I personally know >1 "moms" who have joined and are actively participating. I didn't push them to it, but I mentioned it and they decided on their own to sign up (my interest is more in seeing whether they are interested than trying to sell it). Many more are apparent on the site.

The voting circle jerk as you put it may put them off and cause them to lose interesting, but my bet would be on bad hosting and the limited feature set being bigger issues.

I've only seen 1 mom out of 32.000 that have joined. How many have you seen?

Way more than 1. I don't have time to search for links but maybe someone else wants to find some.

I mean mothers who are 50 and 60 years old and don't give a shit out our blockchain fantasy. Not 20 and 30 year olds with hightech bfs.

My mom finally got on Paypal I guess it was like 2011.

I mean the professional bloggers and writers too.

I mean anyone wanting to share normally not just delusional blockchain print money out of thin air helium.

smooth you have been amazingly cordial. I want to thank you.
full member
Activity: 222
Merit: 101
Novus ordo seclorum
July 25, 2016, 10:31:27 PM
sounds like every other shietcoin out there lol
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 10:28:51 PM
As far as I can tell the moms on the site know next to nothing about any of the blockchain and incentive stuff you call groupthink. That is certainly true of the ones I know personally. They just think it is a cool idea and fun. Whether it holds attention longer term I don't know.

What is a cool idea? What specifically do they think is cool about blogging on Steemit that they couldn't do any where else before?

They like the idea of people voting giving rewards rather than just voting to vote. They don't really know or care about the algorithms. If they get $1 or even less on a comment they're pretty happy with it. They don't expect to make as much as the big winners on the front page are are not disappointed that they don't (but perhaps they do secretly hope to get there someday, and maybe that is indeed part of the draw).

I don't vote on their stuff in case you are wondering because my goal is not to give away free money to people I know. I'd rather see how their perceptions evolve without interference.

They think they are giving away money for free. Printing money out-of-thin-air but they don't think of it that way. They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales). And they think maybe some of that karma will come back to them. They think everyone on Steem is so happy something better than their actual lives or other Internet sites. And then the reality will kick them in the ass and they will learn a truism of life.


India lady trying to earn some money for her kids (husband is electrical engineer so likely a blocknerd):

https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@aramialovely66/mother-of-2-kids-on-steemit

I think this mother has abandoned and oh my she transferred money into Steem (a victim):

https://steemit.com/@danielaonsteem

Introduced by her blocknerd bf:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@travelista/hello-steemit-i-am-edith-travel-and-lifestyle-enthusiast-and-recently-steemit-fan

It most always the same story. It is so redundant already.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
July 25, 2016, 10:17:10 PM
As far as I can tell the moms on the site know next to nothing about any of the blockchain and incentive stuff you call groupthink. That is certainly true of the ones I know personally. They just think it is a cool idea and fun. Whether it holds attention longer term I don't know.

What is a cool idea? What specifically do they think is cool about blogging on Steemit that they couldn't do any where else before?

They like the idea of people voting giving rewards rather than just voting to vote. They don't really know or care about the algorithms. If they get $1 or even less on a comment they're pretty happy with it. They don't expect to make as much as the big winners on the front page are are not disappointed that they don't (but perhaps they do secretly hope to get there someday, and maybe that is indeed part of the draw).

I don't vote on their stuff in case you are wondering because my goal is not to give away free money to people I know. I'd rather see how their perceptions evolve without interference.

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 10:10:54 PM
As far as I can tell the moms on the site know next to nothing about any of the blockchain and incentive stuff you call groupthink. That is certainly true of the ones I know personally. They just think it is a cool idea and fun. Whether it holds attention longer term I don't know.

What is a cool idea? What specifically do they think is cool about blogging on Steemit that they couldn't do any where else before?

Edit: I am doing a search on 'mom' (and 'mother') and I am only finding young blocknerd females who happen to be mothers.

9 cents:

https://steemit.com/life/@rufia/attractive-pussy-is-looking-for-upvotes

5 cents:

https://steemit.com/life/@fonzerrellie/me-my-chemical-imbalance-and-marijuana-my-journey-original-content
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
July 25, 2016, 10:09:15 PM
That is why mom doesn't join.

I personally know >1 "moms" who have joined and are actively participating. I didn't push them to it, but I mentioned it and they decided on their own to sign up (my interest is more in seeing whether they are interested than trying to sell it). Many more are apparent on the site.

The voting circle jerk as you put it may put them off and cause them to lose interesting, but my bet would be on bad hosting and the limited feature set being bigger issues.

I've only seen 1 mom out of 32.000 that have joined. How many have you seen?

Way more than 1. I don't have time to search for links but maybe someone else wants to find some.

Quote
Of course you'll get the occasional mom who is close enough to the groupthink.

As far as I can tell the moms on the site know next to nothing about any of the blockchain and incentive stuff you call groupthink. That is certainly true of the ones I know personally. They just think it is a cool idea and fun. Whether it holds attention longer term I don't know.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 09:58:23 PM
That is why mom doesn't join.

I personally know >1 "moms" who have joined and are actively participating. I didn't push them to it, but I mentioned it and they decided on their own to sign up (my interest is more in seeing whether they are interested than trying to sell it). Many more are apparent on the site.

The voting circle jerk as you put it may put them off and cause them to lose interesting, but my bet would be on bad hosting and the limited feature set being bigger issues.

I've only seen 1 mom out of 32.000 that have joined. How many have you seen?

Of course you'll get the occasional mom who is close enough to the groupthink.

The circle-jerk won't put the deluded off soon. It has to end like the DAO. The deluded fight reality to the end.

People are going to try hard because they really want a blockchain social network to work. They will exert effort beyond reason, especially while they can continue to pretend to print money out-of-thin-air.

When most everyone is powering up, it is possible to print money out-of-thin-air. Because very few are selling so the price is supported. Also apparently have enough deluded investors or speculators to keep that tiny float up. Insiders might even be manipulating the price on the exchanges.

Good for me if they can keep the price up.

I see they had a 1% visitor rate from coinmarketcap banner ads, which is reasonably good. Demographic is coming significantly from our existing blocknerd zone.

The incentive structure is all about appealing to the delusion with the content that is written. There is no economic incentive to organize around different communities than the to-da-moon blockchains for everything delusion.

Didn't you know that blockchains will cure cancer, bring Jesus back before 2025, and render driverless cars deprecated. The blockchain is a solution for everything. We just have to find a way to make it happen. We must.

Note Steemit is accumulating numerous copyright violations. I've read it is $150 per infraction in potential liability.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
July 25, 2016, 09:56:13 PM
That is why mom doesn't join.

I personally know >1 "moms" who have joined and are actively participating. I didn't push them to it, but I mentioned it and they decided on their own to sign up (my interest is more in seeing whether they are interested than trying to sell it). Many more are apparent on the site.

The voting circle jerk as you put it may put them off and cause them to lose interesting, but my bet would be on bad hosting and the limited feature set being bigger issues.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 09:51:05 PM
@iamnotback

You are way overthinking it. Perhaps you are trying to fix the Internet and make sure that quality work gets rewarded, all of which is noble, but is almost entirely irrelevant to Steemit.

Steemit is a social media platform, and like all the other social media platforms it is not high art or journalism, but a platform for people to pass their time (consider how much of peoples' time has shifted from watching bad TV to social media), communicate (often without any lasting significance), have fun, show off, and generally do the things that most real people spend most of their time doing in this world. This will never change, regardless of technology or algorithms, because people basically don't change.

It will work fine for that. In doing so it will also introduce a large number of people to cryptocurrency, something they have never seen before in a reasonably usable way (if at all). Now there is a theory that most people have no use for cryptocurrency and if that theory is correct then that aspect of it will fall flat on its face, and probably the coin won't be worth much either (though the platform may still survive). On the other hand, it is possible that a large number of people from a wide swath of society with access to cryptocurrency, something we have never seen before, will find something interesting and perhaps unexpected to do with it. Or at least some subset of them will, a subset that wasn't being reached before. That might be enough.

The main obstacles are not that the incentives or game theory "aren't right" but more mundane things you have identified earlier such as the feature set of the platform (is it fun enough, can people get lost it it and pass the time, etc.), reliability of hosting (currently atrocious, and this is costing a lot in user growth), etc.

You are missing my point I think, which is that a circle-jerk doesn't bring in a new demographic.

Any way, I might see a solution (to bringing in a new demographic), but afaics it isn't voting. Voting will be an insoluble circle-jerk and stay mired in the same demographic mud.

The cryptocurrency folks can't escape their own circle-jerk. They can't see outside their delusion. That is why mom doesn't join.

I appreciate your effort and I upvoted you. It doesn't mean I agree with you. I support meaningful debate and giving different points of view due consideration.

I would have done so earlier but my time on the forum is limited and by the time I come back these threads have moved far enough that I don't see the older posts.

I almost feel guilty now. Because it is better to not fight what can't be changed. But something good came out of that I think.

I am done with writing on Steem, because I can't change it from within. I would only write there again if I felt like kissing ass to try to make some money, but I am sure I already pissed off enough whales that I will be a persona non grata there from now on.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
July 25, 2016, 09:49:56 PM
Let's see if I can earn any money telling the truth on Steemit:

https://steemit.com/steem/@anonymint/lies-about-steem-and-steemit

Please consider upvoting me if you appreciate my effort. Lots effort has gone into this detailed analysis.

I hope @smooth upvotes me so he can show he was not overly biased by his large stake and thus showing the authorities he was not participating in misleading any investors. I would hope other whales have the similar conscience and rationality.

Of course I don't expect it to be upvoted.

I appreciate your effort and I upvoted you. It doesn't mean I agree with you. I support meaningful debate and giving different points of view due consideration.

I would have done so earlier but my time on the forum is limited and by the time I come back these threads have moved far enough that I don't see the older posts.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
July 25, 2016, 09:48:30 PM
Ok mr ENTP, you sound like you're awkward and cringeworthy in real life

That is what everyone thought some months ago until they saw my video linked in the Ethereum Paradox thread. Strange how the Internet creates mirages.

Readers believe what ever they are biased to feel.
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