Steem pyramid scheme revealed - page 77.

iamnotback

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 265

Quote from: smooth on July 22, 2016, 08:57:35 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:28:08 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 12:12:42 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:07:44 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 10:37:53 AM

2. This high interest rate will only last for 9 months... so might as well take advantage of it

What makes you think that? I don't think that is correct. The Steem Power compounding is perpetual.

I read form a post by dan himself if I remember correctly... I think the interest rate changes

I am bit confused about this. There is one form of compounding that comes from the perpetual creation of 9X Steem Power for every 1 Steem that is minted. Those 9X SP are distributed proportionally to all SP holders. So your SP holdings are always increasing. I don't think it ever ceases nor changes.

Is there also another form of interest paid on SP?

The 9-1 ratio between SP and Steem never changes. I'm pretty sure what he means by the "high interest rate" is the numerical reduction in the rate of effective interest as the supply increases.

Example starting with a supply of one coin:

Add first coin (interest/inflation is 100%)
Add second coin (interest/inflation is 50%)
Add fourth coin (interest/inflation is 33 1/3%)
etc.

Hopefully this explains it correctly:

https://steemit.com/interest/@bacchist/steem-power-interest-is-not-compound-interest#@anonymint/re-bacchist-steem-power-interest-is-not-compound-interest-20160723t033339934z

The problem with this design is that if everyone wants to power up, then the STEEM POWER investors are paying for all the exponential debasement, which is paying for blogging (and mining).

The Bitcoin money supply was debased at 100% per annum only the first year in 2009 and is now around 5%; whereas, Steem plans a perpetual 100% annual minting rate, but much of that is a forward stock split not debasement (approximately 2.8% per annum[1] appears to be the typical rate of debasement of STEEM POWER holders assuming STEEM remains about 10% of the money supply). Forward stock split means the price drop due to money supply increase is compensated with an increase in the number of tokens held.

In order to pay for the blogging without taking it collectively roughly 25% (9/10ths of 2.8% versus 1/10th of 100%) from STEEM POWER investors pockets, will require significant demand to hold STEEM tokens (note ownership changing hands rapidly is still demand as long as the demand doesn't want to power it up).

[1] 50% of 2 of the 4 STEEM created are paid as STEEM POWER for rewards, and that is at a ratio of 1/9th of STEEM POWER money supply per annum.

CoinHoarder

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1026

In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: silversurfer1958 on July 22, 2016, 11:00:58 PM

OK, how do we scam the scammers.

Sign up
Post cool shit
??
Profit

silversurfer1958

full member

Activity: 474

Merit: 111

OK, how do we scam the scammers.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: DlakavaKobasica on July 22, 2016, 01:03:37 PM

Public Service Announcement -
This is just another Ponzi/Pyramid Scam
Do Not Invest!

Those who choose to post of their participation
support or encouragement for this scam will
be tagged with negative trust for proving
they wish to help the scammers operate this
Ponzi in return for a share of the funds stolen
from other users. Thereby proving they are not
trustworthy forum members.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Threats, wow!

So here's my position, signed-up, got free tokens, power it, and then wait.... I'm not sure how to feel about the launch, but does it matter? It is bringing new people into the cryptospere, now why you are mad I don't know--maybe shut up and diversify.

billotronic

legendary

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1000

Crackpot Idealist

ALL cryptocoins are pyramid schemes.

The sooner you come to this conclusion, the sooner progress might be made.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: magicalacademy on July 19, 2016, 11:12:23 PM

You know what's funny is that they tell you to power up but they are powering down all 3 accounts and cashing out $2 Millions every week.

I don't know what the founders are doing with their personal accounts but the steemit account (by far the largest) sometimes powers down and sometimes doesn't. No one is "cashing out $2 million every week".

They do this to create liquid steem that is used to fund new accounts (2/3) and is sold to fund development (1/3). So far on the latter this is their only source of funding (there was a small angel round a while back but I'm sure that is long since exhausted).

When available liquid steem is sufficient they turn off the power down (which makes sense to preserve wealth). It has been switched on and off a few times now.

My guess is that with the high level of exposure and high demand for new accounts, the need for liquid steem is high and power down will stay enabled, but I haven't seen the numbers so this is just a guess.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:28:08 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 12:12:42 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:07:44 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 10:37:53 AM

2. This high interest rate will only last for 9 months... so might as well take advantage of it

What makes you think that? I don't think that is correct. The Steem Power compounding is perpetual.

I read form a post by dan himself if I remember correctly... I think the interest rate changes

I am bit confused about this. There is one form of compounding that comes from the perpetual creation of 9X Steem Power for every 1 Steem that is minted. Those 9X SP are distributed proportionally to all SP holders. So your SP holdings are always increasing. I don't think it ever ceases nor changes.

Is there also another form of interest paid on SP?

The 9-1 ratio between SP and Steem never changes. I'm pretty sure what he means by the "high interest rate" is the numerical reduction in the rate of effective interest as the supply increases.

Example starting with a supply of one coin:

Add first coin (interest/inflation is 100%)
Add second coin (interest/inflation is 50%)
Add fourth coin (interest/inflation is 33 1/3%)
etc.

iamnotback

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 265

@bacchist is trying to lie and hide the fact that Steem is an exponential compounding system:

https://steemit.com/interest/@bacchist/steem-power-interest-is-not-compound-interest

mchwierutSC

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: magicalacademy on July 22, 2016, 03:36:24 PM

Quote from: mchwierutSC on July 22, 2016, 03:13:00 PM

Quote from: magicalacademy on July 19, 2016, 11:12:23 PM

https://steemit.com/@steemit/transfers

https://steemit.com/@ned/transfers

https://steemit.com/@dantheman/transfers

Those are steem founders's wallets, they own a shit loads of steem yes i know. They own about 80% of steem .

You know what's funny is that they tell you to power up but they are powering down all 3 accounts and cashing out $2 Millions every week.

And fools on poloniex are buying up all the steems hahah and best of all the founders's money is growing extremely fast so they have essentially set up a system where they could cash out $2M every week for life until the ponzi come crashing down of course but these devs are fucking geniuses.
It doesn't end there though, they have designed a system where they have so much voting power compared to everyone else that they decide where the pool's money is being allocated, so if they want to pay themselves and their buddies they can do it just by a mouse click.
They can also create sockpuppets account and vote for themselves.It's like a fucking cartel, they are the first crypto mafia.
They also get to decide what goes on the front page so obviously they chose to upvote boobs and steem praise, there is nothing better than vagina to prop up a massive bubble.

In 3 years all the new steem power that was created out of thin air to enrich the devs will be detroyed at a ratio of 10 to 1. So if you have 10 SP they will burn 9 from you and everyone else including themselves, But they don't care becasue in 3 years the devs will be in their private yacht sipping mojito with lots of bitches while you will be powering down but it's gonna be too late my friend.

And you know what they say when you ask but why are you destroying 90% of my wealth in 3 year? They say don't worry hopefully the price will increase to make up for it rofl It will not because they would have crashed it to pay for the yatch lol

RIP steem power holders.

http://thestringpuller.com/2016/07/a-steeming-bubble/

How can you tell they are powering down? Is there something in the interface that alerts that or are you tracking the growth of their SP?

click the links above, you will see it says "The next power down is scheduled to happen 2 days from now."

If they didn't power down nothing would be shown there

Ah, but it doesn't show how much they're powering down. That would be difficult to estimate, since they are also constantly getting SP due to the inflation rules. It'd be great if we could see how much they are powering down or how much SP total is currently being powered down. When you said $2 million, you meant as if they were actively powering all of it down? Thanks for the reply, it's such a complex system.

magicalacademy

member

Activity: 66

Merit: 10

Quote from: mchwierutSC on July 22, 2016, 03:13:00 PM

Quote from: magicalacademy on July 19, 2016, 11:12:23 PM

https://steemit.com/@steemit/transfers

https://steemit.com/@ned/transfers

https://steemit.com/@dantheman/transfers

Those are steem founders's wallets, they own a shit loads of steem yes i know. They own about 80% of steem .

You know what's funny is that they tell you to power up but they are powering down all 3 accounts and cashing out $2 Millions every week.

And fools on poloniex are buying up all the steems hahah and best of all the founders's money is growing extremely fast so they have essentially set up a system where they could cash out $2M every week for life until the ponzi come crashing down of course but these devs are fucking geniuses.
It doesn't end there though, they have designed a system where they have so much voting power compared to everyone else that they decide where the pool's money is being allocated, so if they want to pay themselves and their buddies they can do it just by a mouse click.
They can also create sockpuppets account and vote for themselves.It's like a fucking cartel, they are the first crypto mafia.
They also get to decide what goes on the front page so obviously they chose to upvote boobs and steem praise, there is nothing better than vagina to prop up a massive bubble.

In 3 years all the new steem power that was created out of thin air to enrich the devs will be detroyed at a ratio of 10 to 1. So if you have 10 SP they will burn 9 from you and everyone else including themselves, But they don't care becasue in 3 years the devs will be in their private yacht sipping mojito with lots of bitches while you will be powering down but it's gonna be too late my friend.

And you know what they say when you ask but why are you destroying 90% of my wealth in 3 year? They say don't worry hopefully the price will increase to make up for it rofl It will not because they would have crashed it to pay for the yatch lol

RIP steem power holders.

http://thestringpuller.com/2016/07/a-steeming-bubble/

How can you tell they are powering down? Is there something in the interface that alerts that or are you tracking the growth of their SP?

click the links above, you will see it says "The next power down is scheduled to happen 2 days from now."

If they didn't power down nothing would be shown there

mchwierutSC

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Quote from: magicalacademy on July 19, 2016, 11:12:23 PM

https://steemit.com/@steemit/transfers

https://steemit.com/@ned/transfers

https://steemit.com/@dantheman/transfers

Those are steem founders's wallets, they own a shit loads of steem yes i know. They own about 80% of steem .

You know what's funny is that they tell you to power up but they are powering down all 3 accounts and cashing out $2 Millions every week.

And fools on poloniex are buying up all the steems hahah and best of all the founders's money is growing extremely fast so they have essentially set up a system where they could cash out $2M every week for life until the ponzi come crashing down of course but these devs are fucking geniuses.
It doesn't end there though, they have designed a system where they have so much voting power compared to everyone else that they decide where the pool's money is being allocated, so if they want to pay themselves and their buddies they can do it just by a mouse click.
They can also create sockpuppets account and vote for themselves.It's like a fucking cartel, they are the first crypto mafia.
They also get to decide what goes on the front page so obviously they chose to upvote boobs and steem praise, there is nothing better than vagina to prop up a massive bubble.

In 3 years all the new steem power that was created out of thin air to enrich the devs will be detroyed at a ratio of 10 to 1. So if you have 10 SP they will burn 9 from you and everyone else including themselves, But they don't care becasue in 3 years the devs will be in their private yacht sipping mojito with lots of bitches while you will be powering down but it's gonna be too late my friend.

And you know what they say when you ask but why are you destroying 90% of my wealth in 3 year? They say don't worry hopefully the price will increase to make up for it rofl It will not because they would have crashed it to pay for the yatch lol

RIP steem power holders.

http://thestringpuller.com/2016/07/a-steeming-bubble/

How can you tell they are powering down? Is there something in the interface that alerts that or are you tracking the growth of their SP?

magicalacademy

member

Activity: 66

Merit: 10

http://thestringpuller.com/2016/07/a-steeming-bubble/

iamnotback

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 265

My analysis thus far:

Quote from: iamnotback on July 22, 2016, 02:33:28 PM

So far, the most significant flaws I observe thus far in Steem are:

There is too much selling pressure because users get paid 50% of blogging rewards in STEEM (and miners/liquidity providers) which can be cashed out immediately, and this amounts to > 50% debasement per year that can be sold. The users who are coming to earn money because they need or want money, so they are likely to cash out as much as they can. If rewards were predominately paid in STEEM POWER which has a 1 year weighted average divestment schedule (2 years total), then users might be less incentivized to signup?
The dysfunctional voting+ranking system and the whales having too much influence needs overhaul, but at least this is probably doable. However there is a tension between the promotional hype value of very high rewards (that motivate users to join) and fairer distribution of rewards.
Eternal 100% debasement is not sustainable. The debasement rate should be supported by actual transaction fees and drop to that level at some point.
The 80-90% "pre"-mine is resented by many potential investors who could otherwise be supporting the funding model while transactions are given time to be developed and ramp up. Note that new signups need to have some tokens, else they have no stake-weight to even post or get started with. Perhaps we could use UNPROFITABLE proof-of-work mining instead to get them enough tokens to get rolling in a decentralized paradigm?
Nothing is incentivizing transfers other than cashing out. I have a radical proposal in mind to improve this.

Quote from: iamnotback on July 22, 2016, 02:44:23 PM

Quote from: smooth on July 22, 2016, 02:38:23 PM

Whales will become totally irrelevant when the user base and posting volume increases by 10x or 100x or even 1000x. There just aren't that many whales and whales have the same voting power restrictions as anyone else. A rare whale sighting will be a big deal.

You presume all whales are benevolent. Stake will eventually end up in a power-law distribution, because perpetual 100% debasement is not sustainable (even the transactions fees of the entire earth could not support it).

Also it is incorrect to say they play by the same rules. 3 x 3 = 9 is not 1/2 of 6 x 6 = 36.

Any way, I have proposed a partial solution.

DlakavaKobasica

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Public Service Announcement -
This is just another Ponzi/Pyramid Scam
Do Not Invest!

Those who choose to post of their participation
support or encouragement for this scam will
be tagged with negative trust for proving
they wish to help the scammers operate this
Ponzi in return for a share of the funds stolen
from other users. Thereby proving they are not
trustworthy forum members.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

magicalacademy

member

Activity: 66

Merit: 10

https://steemit.com/marijuana/@kell234/berniesanders-make-crazy-upvotes-again-20-upvotes-with-cost-10k-sdollars-in-article-about-marijuana-who-is-he-and-why-is-it-done#@calva/berniesanders-make-crazy-upvotes-again-20-upvotes-with-cost-10k-sdollars-in-article-about-marijuana-who-is-he-and-why-is-it-done

this is why steemit is doomed. Whales's sockpuppets create shitty content and upvote themselves to the top. That's why you get a pic of a cannabis bud worth 4k usd, then the whales upvote all their sockpuppets in that same shitty thread. Essentially they earned themselves 14k usd for posting a cannabis pic and obviously all these whales are powering down.

nomoreheroes7

sr. member

Activity: 326

Merit: 250

King of all the land

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:28:08 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 12:12:42 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:07:44 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 10:37:53 AM

2. This high interest rate will only last for 9 months... so might as well take advantage of it

What makes you think that? I don't think that is correct. The Steem Power compounding is perpetual.

I read form a post by dan himself if I remember correctly... I think the interest rate changes

I am bit confused about this. There is one form of compounding that comes from the perpetual creation of 9X Steem Power for every 1 Steem that is minted. Those 9X SP are distributed proportionally to all SP holders. So your SP holdings are always increasing. I don't think it ever ceases nor changes.

Is there also another form of interest paid on SP?

I think you guys are confusing the SP compounding with Steem Dollar interest (which is currently 10%). Steem Dollar interest is subject to change. SP compounding just keeps on going, as far as I understand it.

Mickeyb

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Move On !!!!!!

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 11:19:42 AM

What's your steem account? Let's become whales and upvote eachother Wink

I'm @dafar

hehe, but how should that be possible ?

iamnotback

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 265

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 12:12:42 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:07:44 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 10:37:53 AM

2. This high interest rate will only last for 9 months... so might as well take advantage of it

What makes you think that? I don't think that is correct. The Steem Power compounding is perpetual.

I read form a post by dan himself if I remember correctly... I think the interest rate changes

I am bit confused about this. There is one form of compounding that comes from the perpetual creation of 9X Steem Power for every 1 Steem that is minted. Those 9X SP are distributed proportionally to all SP holders. So your SP holdings are always increasing. I don't think it ever ceases nor changes.

Is there also another form of interest paid on SP?

Dafar

legendary

Activity: 1330

Merit: 1000

dafar consulting

Quote from: iamnotback on July 21, 2016, 12:07:44 PM

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 10:37:53 AM

2. This high interest rate will only last for 9 months... so might as well take advantage of it

What makes you think that? I don't think that is correct. The Steem Power compounding is perpetual.

I read form a post by dan himself if I remember correctly... I think the interest rate changes

iamnotback

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 265

Quote from: Dafar on July 21, 2016, 10:37:53 AM

2. This high interest rate will only last for 9 months... so might as well take advantage of it

What makes you think that? I don't think that is correct. The Steem Power compounding is perpetual.

Topic: Steem pyramid scheme revealed - page 77. (Read 107058 times)