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Topic: Study: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists - page 40. (Read 80438 times)

hero member
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It might help if you delineate between pollution issues and others in your mind. Again, most people are on board with stopping pollution. But the public image of environmentalists is NOT of courageous people stopping the powerful from polluting on innocent people's property. Not by a long shot. Using that aspect of activism as a starting point is going to lead you astray if you really want to know what's behind this study's results; to address the image problem, you have to address the actual intrusions of environmental activists into private affairs (i.e., no third party [EDIT: as in a *person*] is getting their property, food, water or air damaged.)

Please stop making posts until you have digested that long post I made.

No.

So you're engaging in willful ignorance then?
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
It might help if you delineate between pollution issues and others in your mind. Again, most people are on board with stopping pollution. But the public image of environmentalists is NOT of courageous people stopping the powerful from polluting on innocent people's property. Not by a long shot. Using that aspect of activism as a starting point is going to lead you astray if you really want to know what's behind this study's results; to address the image problem, you have to address the actual intrusions of environmental activists into private affairs (i.e., no third party [EDIT: as in a *person*] is getting their property, food, water or air damaged.)

Please stop making posts until you have digested that long post I made.

No.


Quote
Why are you insisting that pollution is the only real environmental concern?

I'm not. I'm telling you that to a large percentage of the population, that's their perspective.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Many environmentalists have hidden agentas.
I don't hate them but my first reaction towards someone that claims to be an environmentalist is that he is a hypocrite.
That being said i think we all must do our share for a cleaner environment.

Your viewpoint simply isn't constructive. Doing your share isn't about recycling bottles. What "doing your share" really is, is understanding what's really going on, or, of you're not interested, then "doing your share" means, don't make statements that environmentalists are hypocrites.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Many environmentalists have hidden agentas.
I don't hate them but my first reaction towards someone that claims to be an environmentalist is that he is a hypocrite.
That being said i think we all must do our share for a cleaner environment.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
It might help if you delineate between pollution issues and others in your mind. Again, most people are on board with stopping pollution. But the public image of environmentalists is NOT of courageous people stopping the powerful from polluting on innocent people's property. Not by a long shot. Using that aspect of activism as a starting point is going to lead you astray if you really want to know what's behind this study's results; to address the image problem, you have to address the actual intrusions of environmental activists into private affairs (i.e., no third party [EDIT: as in a *person*] is getting their property, food, water or air damaged.)

Please stop making posts until you have digested that long post I made. Why are you insisting that pollution is the only real environmental concern?
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
+1 for the outcome of this study! Tongue
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
Feminism

In one, the participants—228 Americans recruited via Amazon’s Mechanical Turk—described both varieties of activists in “overwhelmingly negative” terms. [...]

Another study, featuring 17 male and 45 female undergraduates, confirmed the pervasiveness of those stereotypes.

Well, that makes sense. North American women have little to complain about. Now, if you're a woman and you live in one of those fancy countries where you're not allowed to use a t-shirt or drive a car and get executed for adultery if somebody rapes you, well, that's a different story.

Environmentalism

It depends, most people here in Europe are concerned about global warming, environment, and everyone makes small steps to help it (by reducing greenhouse gas emission, sort wastes, and so on.

Greenhouse gases are a myth. Think about it: A CO2 molecule has an atomic weight of 44 (CFCs are much heavier), while an N2 (the main component of "air") has an atomic weight of 28. How are those much heavier molecules supposed to get all the way up to the stratosphere?

I don't believe global warming has anything to do with mankind. There have been several ice ages (technically, we're still in one), and there will be more long after the last human died. It's getting warmer right now and the world is full of humans, but correlation does not imply causation.
legendary
Activity: 980
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Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!

I'm speaking to matt608 of the opinions of people who think of environmental activists as kooks. Continuing to act in a manner that disregards their rights, property and views while claiming an educated high ground is only going to perpetuate, or worsen, their the activists' standing in society.



For that reason, activists being more conscious of the impact that their attitudes and actions have would help. The "treehuggers" could acknowledge that should they get their way, they'll put people out of a job and make their life immediately worse, with nothing of real benefit gained within their lifetime, in the view of those impacted at least.




I'm certainly not in favour of deliberately doing things that violate rights such as property rights, unless there is good reason to do so, most activists I think would agree.  For example, fracking.  I don't know what your stance is on fracking but its been scientifically proven to poison ground water, pollute the air locally and release large amounts of green house gasses, as well as cause earthquakes, release radiation that was previously stored underground in the rocks, and permanently pollute huge amounts of water used in the hydraulic fracturing process.  

Given these facts, many activists would say that setting up a fracking rig  near someone's home violates their rights, because it physically attacks them.  If someone was setting off a chemical weapon with these effects we would call it a terrorist attack.  So an activist chaining themselves to the gate or blocking the road to the fracking site is well within their rights, because actually, the frackers are violating the rigts of the local people and the activists is defending their rights.  If the system was working properly fracking would be illegal, as it is in many countries.  

This is what I mean when I say the activists are often well educated and informed on the matter they are protesting agains. They know that whatever it is they are protesting against is a violation of rights, and they are prepared to violate 'lesser rights' in order to protect the more import basic rights, such as the right to clean drinking water, or the right to clean air.

If someone loses their job and their job was to destroy the local environment and make climate change more severe for the profit of massive corporations, it's a good thing that they lose their job.  


But the problem starts out right away. "Unless there is good reason to do so."

From the perspective of many, there isn't good reason for most environmental proposals, and because environmentalists are generally perceived as spending more time forcing their opinion onto others than proving the case that something is good or bad, people get quite angry with them.

It might help if you delineate between pollution issues and others in your mind. Again, most people are on board with stopping pollution. But the public image of environmentalists is NOT of courageous people stopping the powerful from polluting on innocent people's property. Not by a long shot. Using that aspect of activism as a starting point is going to lead you astray if you really want to know what's behind this study's results; to address the image problem, you have to address the actual intrusions of environmental activists into private affairs (i.e., no third party [EDIT: as in a *person*] is getting their property, food, water or air damaged.)
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
Westkybitcoin,

Nutritionists are a bad example. What you put in your body is going to have less of an effect on others as what happens with environmental destruction. So, don't confuse regulations of one with another. The first thing you should do is read again that long post I made a few posts back so you don't make bad analogies like you just did. We don't need people making bad analogies because they don't understand the ramifications.

You believe nutritionists are a bad example because you believe their concerns are of less significance than environmental concerns. I get that, and tend to agree somewhat with the premise for your objection. But your objection to it as an analogy suggests you're not understanding where the people who contributed to the study results are coming from.

To the minds of many people, environmentalists have about the same relevance as nutritionists. Sure, those folks are not stupid, they'll agree that environmental concerns can have a much more widespread impact; but the immediate relevance to their lives of any given specialist in either field will be seen as close enough that nutritionists and environmentalists will collectively be viewed fairly similarly: as people with ridiculously-deep knowledge of an esoteric field that, while possibly somewhat interesting and helpful, is nevertheless overkill for the desired outcomes, and certainly not worth any prominent recognition or authority in their life. It wouldn't be stated that way of course, but that's the view.

I've seen the mindset often enough that I stand by that analysis of the situation. How people generally view nutritionists is similar enough to how a fairly sizable segment of the U.S. populace views environmentalists that most analogies regarding public interaction (and any resulting backlashes) are quite valid. Right or wrong, lobbying for laws to protect animals or environmental habitats is seen in the same light as lobbying for laws to restrict what your child can purchase from the vending machines in school. Refusing to even contemplate others viewing environmentalists in that light isn't going to help the situation.

And that is really what this comes down to. The actual or alleged validity of the arguments doesn't matter: if the group has public activism of a  coercive nature, then there will be backlash simply because people take offense at being interfered with. That's the aspect of the public perspective that needs to be taken into account if environmentalists want to really make headway.

Or not, I guess; I don't exactly have a dog in the race as far as environmentalism's public image goes. *shrug*
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
It's important to understand the difference, and who and what environmentalists are. They're not just the conscious person who recycles bottles and cans and drives a Prius. And they're not just activists. Those two groups are the least important groups of environmentalists. The third group are those people who have a large set of knowledge on the subject of the environment. They may be scientists, professors, speakers, philanthropists, lobbyists, executives of conservation organizations, or, retired activists, now engaging in real projects, such as the rewilding of North America using GIS databases. They are field research specialists, urban planners, entomologists, climate scientists, architects, ecologists, writers, botanists, hydroponics researchers, and so on. They are people doing herd studies in Africa, people reintroducing the wolf into Yellowstone, researchers studying trophic cascades in the northwest, people engaging in coral reef studies, educated CEOs of particular clothing companies, researchers of island biogeography, individuals developing methods for sustainable salmon fishing, documentary filmmakers...

Agreed, all these professions you mention play important roles in environmentalism.  I don't agree that the bottle can recyclers and activists are the least important.  Recycling is vital for everyone.  Some scientific research, even though professional ends up being useless, and some things activists do are important, such as getting on the news to raise awareness about an environmental issue.  



I'm speaking to matt608 of the opinions of people who think of environmental activists as kooks. Continuing to act in a manner that disregards their rights, property and views while claiming an educated high ground is only going to perpetuate, or worsen, their the activists' standing in society.



For that reason, activists being more conscious of the impact that their attitudes and actions have would help. The "treehuggers" could acknowledge that should they get their way, they'll put people out of a job and make their life immediately worse, with nothing of real benefit gained within their lifetime, in the view of those impacted at least.




I'm certainly not in favour of deliberately doing things that violate rights such as property rights, unless there is good reason to do so, most activists I think would agree.  For example, fracking.  I don't know what your stance is on fracking but its been scientifically proven to poison ground water, pollute the air locally and release large amounts of green house gasses, as well as cause earthquakes, release radiation that was previously stored underground in the rocks, and permanently pollute huge amounts of water used in the hydraulic fracturing process.  

Given these facts, many activists would say that setting up a fracking rig  near someone's home violates their rights, because it physically attacks them.  If someone was setting off a chemical weapon with these effects we would call it a terrorist attack.  So an activist chaining themselves to the gate or blocking the road to the fracking site is well within their rights, because actually, the frackers are violating the rigts of the local people and the activists is defending their rights.  If the system was working properly fracking would be illegal, as it is in many countries.  

This is what I mean when I say the activists are often well educated and informed on the matter they are protesting agains. They know that whatever it is they are protesting against is a violation of rights, and they are prepared to violate 'lesser rights' in order to protect the more import basic rights, such as the right to clean drinking water, or the right to clean air.

If someone loses their job and their job was to destroy the local environment and make climate change more severe for the profit of massive corporations, it's a good thing that they lose their job.  
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Westkybitcoin,

Nutritionists are a bad example. What you put in your body is going to have less of an effect on others as what happens with environmental destruction. So, don't confuse regulations of one with another. The first thing you should do is read again that long post I made a few posts back so you don't make bad analogies like you just did. We don't need people making bad analogies because they don't understand the ramifications.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Quote
Fact: I know more about this stuff than you do.

If you did, you wouldn't be on my ignore list FirstAscent.

Please, go back to ignoring me, so you can remain ignorant.

I never understood the mentality of those who choose to ignore, brag about it, but can't seem to actually stick to their claim.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
Quote
Fact: I know more about this stuff than you do.

If you did, you wouldn't be on my ignore list FirstAscent.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Both these movements are artificially driven by the state. Basically an excuse for socialism; increased state power.

Uhh, no. The state is a vehicle by which to unify progress on those fronts. Contrary to your paranoid visions, the actual intentions of say, environmental projects and regulations are to make us more energy efficient, our lifestyles more sustainable, and preserve the environment.

Yeah, keep believing that buddy. Organised crime will save us from ourselves!

Fact: I know more about this stuff than you do.
hero member
Activity: 527
Merit: 500
Both these movements are artificially driven by the state. Basically an excuse for socialism; increased state power.

Uhh, no. The state is a vehicle by which to unify progress on those fronts. Contrary to your paranoid visions, the actual intentions of say, environmental projects and regulations are to make us more energy efficient, our lifestyles more sustainable, and preserve the environment.

Yeah, keep believing that buddy. Organised crime will save us from ourselves!
full member
Activity: 124
Merit: 100
Whatever you take away from it.
Are you concerned that others see you you as sexist or undereducated Huh

No, they are dilusional. You're in the thread, so how about contribution to this discussion?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
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