Support OpenBazaar!!! - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

RobertDJ

full member

Activity: 155

Merit: 100

Quote from: turvarya on November 12, 2014, 11:56:50 AM

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on November 12, 2014, 11:52:30 AM

Quote from: Flashman on November 12, 2014, 09:35:07 AM

I just want a BS free craigslist/eBay for bitcoin to buy and sell on, however, the idea that using OB might "mark" you for attention is worrying. As the well informed are aware, it only requires faint traces of criminal suspicion to seize assets and block your banks accounts these days. So I'm wondering what this looks like from outside to LE, are "non-infringing" stores obvious enough that even a Judge with a bad hangover will toss out the warrant? Seems rational to me that it would be tantamount to seizing your house because of a drug dealer on same street or in neighborhood, but LE is not known for it's rigid regard for rationality. This probably sounds like a wimpy cop out, but I can't deal with every little thing becoming an idealogical battle, just want shit that works.

That's a good concern. Maybe the creators of Open Bazaar could put up a notice (on the website and in the program), that it should not be used for buying or selling illegal goods or services, and that they don't approve of breaking the law. People might still try to do it, but it would be on the specific person for attempting to buy or sell then. Versus LE having an ability to go after the whole market because they see it as another silk road type site.

The developers of Open Bazaar don't earn money from it. So, I don't think, law enforcement can do anything about it.
Law enforcement also can't do anything against the developers of torrent-clients

I was under the impression that people are generally encouraged to donate a percentage of each transaction to the devs of OB. While this is voluntary I would say that they would expect to receive donations rather frequently.

newflesh

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on November 12, 2014, 11:52:30 AM

Quote from: Flashman on November 12, 2014, 09:35:07 AM

I just want a BS free craigslist/eBay for bitcoin to buy and sell on, however, the idea that using OB might "mark" you for attention is worrying. As the well informed are aware, it only requires faint traces of criminal suspicion to seize assets and block your banks accounts these days. So I'm wondering what this looks like from outside to LE, are "non-infringing" stores obvious enough that even a Judge with a bad hangover will toss out the warrant? Seems rational to me that it would be tantamount to seizing your house because of a drug dealer on same street or in neighborhood, but LE is not known for it's rigid regard for rationality. This probably sounds like a wimpy cop out, but I can't deal with every little thing becoming an idealogical battle, just want shit that works.

That's a good concern. Maybe the creators of Open Bazaar could put up a notice (on the website and in the program), that it should not be used for buying or selling illegal goods or services, and that they don't approve of breaking the law. People might still try to do it, but it would be on the specific person for attempting to buy or sell then. Versus LE having an ability to go after the whole market because they see it as another silk road type site.

I'd imagine there will be lots of OpenBazaar forks in the future, some could provide legal services/goods like Ebay with the rest catering to the more 'illegal' trade (silkroad etc)

Palmdetroit

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Would be nice to see this take out ebay.

MakingMoneyHoney

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: turvarya on November 12, 2014, 11:56:50 AM

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on November 12, 2014, 11:52:30 AM

Quote from: Flashman on November 12, 2014, 09:35:07 AM

I just want a BS free craigslist/eBay for bitcoin to buy and sell on, however, the idea that using OB might "mark" you for attention is worrying. As the well informed are aware, it only requires faint traces of criminal suspicion to seize assets and block your banks accounts these days. So I'm wondering what this looks like from outside to LE, are "non-infringing" stores obvious enough that even a Judge with a bad hangover will toss out the warrant? Seems rational to me that it would be tantamount to seizing your house because of a drug dealer on same street or in neighborhood, but LE is not known for it's rigid regard for rationality. This probably sounds like a wimpy cop out, but I can't deal with every little thing becoming an idealogical battle, just want shit that works.

That's a good concern. Maybe the creators of Open Bazaar could put up a notice (on the website and in the program), that it should not be used for buying or selling illegal goods or services, and that they don't approve of breaking the law. People might still try to do it, but it would be on the specific person for attempting to buy or sell then. Versus LE having an ability to go after the whole market because they see it as another silk road type site.

The developers of Open Bazaar don't earn money from it. So, I don't think, law enforcement can do anything about it.
Law enforcement also can't do anything against the developers of torrent-clients

I never looked at Silk Road (1 or 2); I take it that they did earn money from it?

turvarya

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: MakingMoneyHoney on November 12, 2014, 11:52:30 AM

Quote from: Flashman on November 12, 2014, 09:35:07 AM

I just want a BS free craigslist/eBay for bitcoin to buy and sell on, however, the idea that using OB might "mark" you for attention is worrying. As the well informed are aware, it only requires faint traces of criminal suspicion to seize assets and block your banks accounts these days. So I'm wondering what this looks like from outside to LE, are "non-infringing" stores obvious enough that even a Judge with a bad hangover will toss out the warrant? Seems rational to me that it would be tantamount to seizing your house because of a drug dealer on same street or in neighborhood, but LE is not known for it's rigid regard for rationality. This probably sounds like a wimpy cop out, but I can't deal with every little thing becoming an idealogical battle, just want shit that works.

That's a good concern. Maybe the creators of Open Bazaar could put up a notice (on the website and in the program), that it should not be used for buying or selling illegal goods or services, and that they don't approve of breaking the law. People might still try to do it, but it would be on the specific person for attempting to buy or sell then. Versus LE having an ability to go after the whole market because they see it as another silk road type site.

The developers of Open Bazaar don't earn money from it. So, I don't think, law enforcement can do anything about it.
Law enforcement also can't do anything against the developers of torrent-clients

MakingMoneyHoney

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: Flashman on November 12, 2014, 09:35:07 AM

I just want a BS free craigslist/eBay for bitcoin to buy and sell on, however, the idea that using OB might "mark" you for attention is worrying. As the well informed are aware, it only requires faint traces of criminal suspicion to seize assets and block your banks accounts these days. So I'm wondering what this looks like from outside to LE, are "non-infringing" stores obvious enough that even a Judge with a bad hangover will toss out the warrant? Seems rational to me that it would be tantamount to seizing your house because of a drug dealer on same street or in neighborhood, but LE is not known for it's rigid regard for rationality. This probably sounds like a wimpy cop out, but I can't deal with every little thing becoming an idealogical battle, just want shit that works.

That's a good concern. Maybe the creators of Open Bazaar could put up a notice (on the website and in the program), that it should not be used for buying or selling illegal goods or services, and that they don't approve of breaking the law. People might still try to do it, but it would be on the specific person for attempting to buy or sell then. Versus LE having an ability to go after the whole market because they see it as another silk road type site.

Flashman

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Hodl!

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on November 11, 2014, 03:45:29 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 11, 2014, 03:38:56 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: theblacksquid on November 10, 2014, 01:40:28 PM

Quote from: Rampton on November 10, 2014, 01:05:33 PM

Quote from: knight22 on November 09, 2014, 10:46:48 PM

Quote from: halicarton on November 09, 2014, 10:41:24 PM

OpenBazaar is cool but is not good enough.

It's early days. Come back in 6 months.

When does it actually go live? I think this needs to become operational as soon as possible. It's going to be an interesting experiment but one that is badly needed due to the nature of the free market. I'm also interested how they will deal with items that really shouldn't be on there like the worst kind of stuff.

The full release will be rolled out by early 2015. They will not have any ability to censor any of the listings that will be posted on the network, even though they dont intend for OB to be used for illicit goods

I would disagree with the last part of your statement. They are creating a network that, by nature people will primarily use to trade in illegal goods. Although they have not put this goal in writing, I would not be surprised if there is a similar level of legal goods sold on OB as there were on SR1

OpenBazar is not really that anonymous. So, if I had illegal stuff to sell, I wouldn't do it there.
Sorry, but it is just BS, that so many people think: "Oh, it's something new, it must be just for illegal stuff, because they could use XYZ for legal stuff"
People don't want to use Ebay anymore. People want as less central authorities as possible. So, P2P-Networks are spreading everywhere. That doesn't mean, this networks are outside of legal jurisdiction.

Agreed, it seems quite simple for the FBI to set up sting operations on OpenBazar. They set up a fake store front, sell fake drugs, and wait for you to pick them up at your house. They only need to do this a few times, perhaps only pretend they are doing it, for it to instill doubt in people.

I just want a BS free craigslist/eBay for bitcoin to buy and sell on, however, the idea that using OB might "mark" you for attention is worrying. As the well informed are aware, it only requires faint traces of criminal suspicion to seize assets and block your banks accounts these days. So I'm wondering what this looks like from outside to LE, are "non-infringing" stores obvious enough that even a Judge with a bad hangover will toss out the warrant? Seems rational to me that it would be tantamount to seizing your house because of a drug dealer on same street or in neighborhood, but LE is not known for it's rigid regard for rationality. This probably sounds like a wimpy cop out, but I can't deal with every little thing becoming an idealogical battle, just want shit that works.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: cryptworld on November 12, 2014, 06:07:49 AM

I have downloaded it for windows,but it require me to install another program
why is this happening?

Yes, install http://www.gpg4win.org/download.html first.

cryptworld

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 503

I have downloaded it for windows,but it require me to install another program
why is this happening?

ScreamnShout

full member

Activity: 206

Merit: 100

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 08:06:28 PM

Quote from: deluxeCITY on November 11, 2014, 01:16:59 PM

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

Surprised drug trade is even being talked about, still.

The way OB was designed was to prevent the identities of others from being able to be discovered by law enforcement (or any other central agency/authority) in an efficient way. This point is that it is supposedly more safe to buy and sell illegal items using OB.

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

The case for OB is really, really clear. Go here, think about some things around your house, maybe something you make for a hobby or business, and see what Paypal/eBay'd charge you.

Just to throw out some examples (fixed price auction, no add-ons) for the exceptionally lazy:
$6.99 jams & jellies business = 21.46% fee per individual unit, 14.33% per six-pack
$10 Playstation code = 18.9% fee per unit, 14.1% per $50 card
Fujifilm "Instant Minis" = 16.12% fee per 20-pack, 14.34% per 50-pack.

eBay was really not designed to be used to sell these kinds of low value items on it, although many people do in order to increase their potential number of buyers. If you were to include the cost of shipping items in a way that can be tracked (which would be necessary for both OB and eBay transactions as if this was not used then the buyer could always claim they did not receive their goods) then the total cost would be much higher. eBay was really designed to sell higher end type goods that would sell for several hundred dollars.

eBay's fees are still well over 10% on $xxx items. The %fee doesn't really become reasonable unless you're selling $5k+ items.

I tried to poke the OB team into commenting specifically on the Tor fork, but I'm guessing it's going to leak, which is why Bitcoin+Tor combo also isn't generally considered safe/private.

I may be reading this incorrectly, however apparently ebay now charges 10% on the sales price plus shipping (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html#totalamount). I would say this is a huge amount (although the criminal complaint against the SR2 guy said that SR2 charged an average of 8% on sales so I guess that ebay can get the extra 2% for being a "legit" site

Kluge

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1015

Quote from: deluxeCITY on November 11, 2014, 01:16:59 PM

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

Surprised drug trade is even being talked about, still.

The way OB was designed was to prevent the identities of others from being able to be discovered by law enforcement (or any other central agency/authority) in an efficient way. This point is that it is supposedly more safe to buy and sell illegal items using OB.

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

The case for OB is really, really clear. Go here, think about some things around your house, maybe something you make for a hobby or business, and see what Paypal/eBay'd charge you.

Just to throw out some examples (fixed price auction, no add-ons) for the exceptionally lazy:
$6.99 jams & jellies business = 21.46% fee per individual unit, 14.33% per six-pack
$10 Playstation code = 18.9% fee per unit, 14.1% per $50 card
Fujifilm "Instant Minis" = 16.12% fee per 20-pack, 14.34% per 50-pack.

eBay was really not designed to be used to sell these kinds of low value items on it, although many people do in order to increase their potential number of buyers. If you were to include the cost of shipping items in a way that can be tracked (which would be necessary for both OB and eBay transactions as if this was not used then the buyer could always claim they did not receive their goods) then the total cost would be much higher. eBay was really designed to sell higher end type goods that would sell for several hundred dollars.

eBay's fees are still well over 10% on $xxx items. The %fee doesn't really become reasonable unless you're selling $5k+ items.

I tried to poke the OB team into commenting specifically on the Tor fork, but I'm guessing it's going to leak, which is why Bitcoin+Tor combo also isn't generally considered safe/private.

deluxeCITY

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: theblacksquid on November 11, 2014, 02:24:59 PM

Quote from: deluxeCITY on November 11, 2014, 01:16:59 PM

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

Surprised drug trade is even being talked about, still.

The way OB was designed was to prevent the identities of others from being able to be discovered by law enforcement (or any other central agency/authority) in an efficient way. This point is that it is supposedly more safe to buy and sell illegal items using OB.

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

The case for OB is really, really clear. Go here, think about some things around your house, maybe something you make for a hobby or business, and see what Paypal/eBay'd charge you.

Just to throw out some examples (fixed price auction, no add-ons) for the exceptionally lazy:
$6.99 jams & jellies business = 21.46% fee per individual unit, 14.33% per six-pack
$10 Playstation code = 18.9% fee per unit, 14.1% per $50 card
Fujifilm "Instant Minis" = 16.12% fee per 20-pack, 14.34% per 50-pack.

eBay was really not designed to be used to sell these kinds of low value items on it, although many people do in order to increase their potential number of buyers. If you were to include the cost of shipping items in a way that can be tracked (which would be necessary for both OB and eBay transactions as if this was not used then the buyer could always claim they did not receive their goods) then the total cost would be much higher. eBay was really designed to sell higher end type goods that would sell for several hundred dollars.

Your IP address would be visible without taking special precautions when you run an OB node, so it would actually help the Law Enforcement to pinpoint your location. At this point, OB is mainly for testing purposes only.

OB was recently "forked" to allow for the use of tor. Not only that but it is designed in a way so that the transaction would not be available to law enforcement unless it was a party to the transaction (either buyer, seller or "escrow"/"arbitrator")

doof

hero member

Activity: 765

Merit: 503

Quote from: MadGamer on November 11, 2014, 01:20:18 PM

It's an awesome software and pretty nice Grin

the creator of the platform is anyone on bitcointalk forums ?

Dr Washo is, and hes attended a few meetups.

theblacksquid

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: deluxeCITY on November 11, 2014, 01:16:59 PM

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

Surprised drug trade is even being talked about, still.

The way OB was designed was to prevent the identities of others from being able to be discovered by law enforcement (or any other central agency/authority) in an efficient way. This point is that it is supposedly more safe to buy and sell illegal items using OB.

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

The case for OB is really, really clear. Go here, think about some things around your house, maybe something you make for a hobby or business, and see what Paypal/eBay'd charge you.

Just to throw out some examples (fixed price auction, no add-ons) for the exceptionally lazy:
$6.99 jams & jellies business = 21.46% fee per individual unit, 14.33% per six-pack
$10 Playstation code = 18.9% fee per unit, 14.1% per $50 card
Fujifilm "Instant Minis" = 16.12% fee per 20-pack, 14.34% per 50-pack.

eBay was really not designed to be used to sell these kinds of low value items on it, although many people do in order to increase their potential number of buyers. If you were to include the cost of shipping items in a way that can be tracked (which would be necessary for both OB and eBay transactions as if this was not used then the buyer could always claim they did not receive their goods) then the total cost would be much higher. eBay was really designed to sell higher end type goods that would sell for several hundred dollars.

Your IP address would be visible without taking special precautions when you run an OB node, so it would actually help the Law Enforcement to pinpoint your location. At this point, OB is mainly for testing purposes only.

cmacwiz

sr. member

Activity: 704

Merit: 270

Quote from: halicarton on November 09, 2014, 10:41:24 PM

OpenBazaar is cool but is not good enough.

Good enough for what? Sure, the beta releases are buggy as hell, but the new ideas of implementing multisig and arbiters for consumer protection seem powerful. It will take a while, but I have high hopes for openbazaar and others like it

1K

member

Activity: 64

Merit: 10

Quote from: MadGamer on November 11, 2014, 01:20:18 PM

It's an awesome software and pretty nice Grin

the creator of the platform is anyone on bitcointalk forums ?

Amir is somewhere and he was involved somehow I believe but not sure if he's still active.

MadGamer

legendary

Activity: 1568

Merit: 1031

It's an awesome software and pretty nice Grin

the creator of the platform is anyone on bitcointalk forums ?

sadface

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

i haven't looked into OB that much, so a question:

did i understand it correct that your shop is only accessible (buy, browse listings etc.) as long as you leave your node/software running?

deluxeCITY

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

Surprised drug trade is even being talked about, still.

The way OB was designed was to prevent the identities of others from being able to be discovered by law enforcement (or any other central agency/authority) in an efficient way. This point is that it is supposedly more safe to buy and sell illegal items using OB.

Quote from: Kluge on November 11, 2014, 04:41:36 AM

The case for OB is really, really clear. Go here, think about some things around your house, maybe something you make for a hobby or business, and see what Paypal/eBay'd charge you.

Just to throw out some examples (fixed price auction, no add-ons) for the exceptionally lazy:
$6.99 jams & jellies business = 21.46% fee per individual unit, 14.33% per six-pack
$10 Playstation code = 18.9% fee per unit, 14.1% per $50 card
Fujifilm "Instant Minis" = 16.12% fee per 20-pack, 14.34% per 50-pack.

eBay was really not designed to be used to sell these kinds of low value items on it, although many people do in order to increase their potential number of buyers. If you were to include the cost of shipping items in a way that can be tracked (which would be necessary for both OB and eBay transactions as if this was not used then the buyer could always claim they did not receive their goods) then the total cost would be much higher. eBay was really designed to sell higher end type goods that would sell for several hundred dollars.

knight22

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

--------------->¿?

Quote

OpenBazaar’s Operations Lead told us that they hope to be fully operational by Spring 2015.

http://bitcoinful.com/post/102357297262/an-interview-with-sam-patterson-operations-lead

Can't wait Cool

Topic: Support OpenBazaar!!! - page 4. (Read 10078 times)