Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1706. (Read 3049501 times)

For what it's worth, Pre-Orders are sort of a necessary evil if you want to see a worthwhile return.  If you are willing to accept the risk, you get in before everyone else and reap a much greater reward.  If you wait until units are "off-the-shelf" deliveries, you won't see a whole lot back with everyone else trying to get a piece of the action.

Simply put, Pre-Orders exist as a vehicle for those that accept it for what it is.  Bashing Pre-Orders is sort of like bashing redheads because your "preference" is with brunettes, in other words, it's non-sense.

HF supposedly has chips that have been ordered by the IceDrill mine as well.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitfunder-icedrillasic-ipo-235-thash-mining-operation-powered-by-hashfast-269216

HashFast's MPP looks like a straight admission they are going to either be late, or under spec...
Not to mention that 500 baby jets isn't anywhere near an entire reel of chips, What do you think they intend on doing with the rest?  
Now they promised them out as compensation for their shortcomings.
Hashfast will soon be known as TrashFast, or Crashfast imho due to the crowded design of their poorly designed chip, which they now know is the case, because after posting the "Why we're better than KNC" news, loaded with misinfo about KNC's chips; KNC then reciprocated with the true chip-specs, which obviously showed their guesses were quite far from the truth, and in fact, KNC has a much larger heat footprint, which will be much easier to cool. That's why I think HashFast will be no threat.... at all. So little time in the race, and already showing mistakes & wild promises indicating late delivery and/or under spec delivery.
Personally, I wouldn't touch them from the beginning, due to the "BTC only" policy when they started pre-orders... huge RED FLAG, then they followed up with the silly/wrong KNC comparison(Showing lack of knowledge), followed by the ridiculous MPP saying "If you don't ROI within 90 days".... They will give you 400% more hashing power?..They straight up say..." Yes, that does mean that if you don’t make your money back in 90 days, we will increase your mining capacity to up to 2 Terahashes!"  I see a dead fish soon.

I don't have to model anything, just have to look at the wallet to see how much it generated. If it's not enough in 3 months - get compensation. It can't get more simple than that.

You've miss-read it, they don't (to quote you) "send you the number of chips you would have needed to ROI based on the difficulty growth from when you got your machine until the current point in time". They will send 2X Ghash/s you would have needed. They've may also said they would send 10X mining power, but in that case nobody would believe them they are that generous  

You're third argument about their Miner Protection compensation's Ghash/s' also increasing diff honestly is not worth commenting.

For me their solution to put their customers at ease is elegant and innovative. If only every other ASIC supplier/manufacturer followed somewhere along these lines there would be less delays for sure, since every delay transfers BTC from their pocket to their customers pocket.

It's way to complex to model. 

You have various difficulty growth thresholds that trigger different numbers of chips, you have to estimate the difficulty growth over another 90 days it takes to get the chips in order to figure out if they'll be profitable.  Remember, they don't send you the number of chips you need to have an ROI, at the current difficulty, instead they send you the number of chips you would have needed to ROI based on the difficulty growth from when you got your machine until the current point in time. But if the difficulty has gone up more then 4x in that time period, you still may not see a positive ROI, even with those chips.

And of course the extra chips themselves will increase network difficulty as well 

What's ridiculous about it? I read it again and again, and can't get what you mean:
https://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/
On the opposite, it made me commit to HashFast group buy when decided where to invest my coin in 2nd gen ASICs.

I get accused of all sorts of things by pointing this out, but it comes down to who is prepared to stand by their design decisions and promises, and who isn't. Hashfast has done everything they possibly can to hype an unfeasible delivery time and remove accountability. It's dishonest. No secure payment method, which holds them to a claimed Delivery date. No refunds until months after claimed delivery date, even then it's a two week window, part of which they will be unlikely to have returned from a Christmas break from. A piss poor warranty which speaks volumes about how they intend to reach their claims, by producing an unstable product which they don't want to stand behind. All of which, including the used of 'anticipated' from a previously stated delivery date have been revisions to their terms AFTER people have purchased via non-secure payment means. Sorry, but look at it for what it is. People need to use their heads, and trust their gut.

I'll probably just grab a PSU out of one of my old GPU miners.

Shell Shocker @6:00 pm Pacific time:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152044

RAIDMAX RX-1000AE 1000W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Plenty of pci-e connectors

Bitcoin only is fine if they were willing to allow cancellation, and could prove how they would pay for it.

My feeling is that Pre-orders are OK if you allow cancellations before shipping, which is required by law, by the way. I felt like HashFast was selling something that would never ROI, and their Miner Protection Program is ridiculous.

Every investment in a ground-floor startup in something emerging is time sensitive because your potential profits will always be behind the curve. In this case it's a piece of hardware, in MS's case it was getting the sale.


Uh, No. BFL is off the charts. KNC is a spec when you compare the two, which is why I put the comparison against all current OEM's. To say KNC is off the charts just doesn't fit, not to mention, their model is very different from BFL's.


Yes, because taking credit card payments and paypal doesn't offload any miniscule amount of burden from the consumer, and doesn't load risk onto KNC's shoulders at all. Considering no other company currently provides so many reversable payment options, the risk isn't 100% on the individuals.

Let's say I have 100 Jupiters ordered, after they're in transit I could call my business credit handler and tell them whatever I need in order to reverse the charge. They'll be more than happy to do so and give me my open credit back. Or, I could simply cancel right now. It's not nearly as risky as, say, paying in bitcoin, or a bank transfer.

While I understand what you're getting at, the picture isn't quite as goth as you're trying to paint it.


They've gone from about a 90 day window to a 30-60 day window, with the probable progression to a 15-30 day window. That's positive progress. It just sounds like you want Amazon Prime ASIC Foundary or something, but you're not going to get it. Anywhere. For quite awhile.


"hardly anyone" != "nobody"


A moment ago the complaint was the market is still stuck in a preorder phase, and now the market is moving away? KNC is the only OEM making "leaps and bounds" toward a shorter delivery window. So yeah, I agree with you there.


Could also be because most systems are becoming more expensive than ever before, and word is getting out about all of the OEM's. Not just because people don't like preorders.


Yeah I'm familiar with the post.. the context as well. Doesn't change where I'm coming from.

The way I see it, KNC's model and execution (thus far) is an exponentially better system than BFL or others have had, and I believe they'll be leading the way toward a less "preorder" system. At the same time, I'm confident someone else (putting money on Cointerra) will likely perfect the system and bring a model which is more along the lines of what you describe.

That's someone that will always be counted on to measure EV in fiat. ^^^

I paid with PP because unlike bitcoins it's quick and simple, same as anything I buy online. There's not much point in PP for chargeback purposes working out well since it's 45 days only and we all knew that KnC weren't going to make it in 45 days.
I'd never buy anything worthwhile with BTC, it's just not sensible at all and it's certainly not as simple or protected as other options. If a company ONLY accepts BTC I have to assume they have a reason and it's not usually going to benefit me.

One thing that BFL did for all of us was to make us aware of almost everything that we could fall foul of when getting involved in pre-ordering rigs and paying for them. Got to thank them for being so completely incompetent and customer unfriendly I think, and so unlike KnC so far thankfully

That's because they announced chip/product, open preorders and that was it. People were like WTF? Scammers?? Read the entire thread and you'll understand. It wasn't until days later they actually got a website up and running with some details and eventually people found out who they were. So once the details, people and etc were revealed, it was pretty much good to go besides the bitcoins/bank wire only part.

Anyhow I'm done talking about hashfast because this isn't the thread to do it.

Actually their thread is riddled with people complaining about the pre-order model. Fortunately with the magic of instant rewind we can check and see:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hashfast-announces-specs-for-new-asic-400ghs-262052

Anyway why do you suppose so many want to use CC/Paypal to pay? Could it be because they want to be able to initiate a chargeback? They want a do-over option because the terms of the contract may change over time. IOW pre-orders suck and they want a way out.

To earn more bitcoins

That's the name of the game.

To mine more bitcoins?

Personally, I want to mine to obtain bitcoin, so why do they assume I already had a plentiful supply?  If I had an amount of bitcoin enough to buy their machine, why would I want their machine??

I thought this is what they said too. Presumably there will be some way we can keep an eye on things, but will have to wait for more info on that.

People were critical of hashfast not because of the preorder model but because of the payment methods. They only accept straight up bitcoins, bitpay and bank wires - which is a bit crapola.

KNC on the other hand has cc, paypal, bitpay, bank wire. The wise would be using PayPal or CC.

Hell I'm sure if Cointerra or Hashfast had CC/PayPal, heaps of people would've jumped in. Same can said for any other company out there.