Author

Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1733. (Read 3049501 times)

sr. member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 265
September 01, 2013, 09:19:57 PM
320*1.3 =~ 433 not 520

Roi in 2020 Wink

Does being that stupid actually hurt?

I understand where he's coming from. The original clock rate was 320. He's presuming they're talking about an additional performance on top of the original clock rate. However, that's not the case. They adjusted the stock clock rate to 400 in one of their announcements. So he's wrong in saying 320, but I can see why he thought that.

The problem with this is that it's linear thinking, you're not taking into account the efficiency increase over time. Think about how much advancement has occurred with CPU/GPU's over the past decade. Exponential is putting it lightly.

Yes there will be increase in efficiency but there's a technological wall at some point. 28nm will be pretty much the standard in months to come and that's about it. There could be 20nm but I don't see that happening for years to come. Mainly because it's not widely available and way too expensive.

But to have it double > double > double > double > double > double >double > double is impossible. Mathically/technologically wise. People don't seem to understand this.

It's like saying current CPU tech. It becomes double the speed/efficiency next year. and double again next year and double again next year. Going by the logic, by 2020, we should have 60ghz cpu with only 20w usage. lol. That's not exactly the case if you look at the benchmarks for the past few years.

Yeah that was the case back in the old days, pentium 1s but those days are over.

With bitcoin ASICs, you're already almost there at the top. Current bitcoin ASICs are not at Pentium1 levels.

It's still exponential because of quantity. Let's say they hit a wall with 28nm technology. They won't stop shipping in quantities, they will still be sold. Their price might go down some, which will encourage more sales. I say might, because not all MFG's have lowered their cost. And folks who mine altcoin can still find these useful tremendously.

This is something I don't understand. Folks are all up in arms about the systems not mining for useful profits beyond a certain point with bitcoin.. Ok? So shift your coins? I'm mining some altcoins using ASIC equipment and I'm making decent returns with them. They can be traded for fiat or, guess what, bitcoin.

Mining is a long-term thing, and with some sense, you can manage to get returns "somehow" by shifting what you're mining.

Makes sense. Which altcoins are you mining if you don't mind me asking ?
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 255
September 01, 2013, 08:51:07 PM
Its going to be exponential until it isn't.

I can't tell if I am being overly optimistic or pessimistic, but I anticipate that it will be exponential while all the current 28 nm projects are still in the process of shipping out their pre-orders... so until February or March of next year.  Global network hash rate at time will likely be close to 14PH/s.  Assuming 41M daily additional difficulty gain for the linear phase (currently we are at 1.5M daily additional so about 27x more hash power will be added daily due to the newer tech available), I modeled a 400GH unit arriving in mid October generating ~ 55BTC of the next 14 months (and a 520GH unit generating ~70BTC). If received Oct.1st, the numbers looks like 75btc and 90ish (for the 520 GHs spec).

Curious how close to reality that ends up.
soy
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
September 01, 2013, 08:29:32 PM
Should be interesting if known miner device manufacturers stop shipping and the hashrate rises anyway pointing to some unknown manufacturer's hashing devices hitting the network.

Dude, ALL legit manufacturers devices will be hitting the network (with the probable exception of BFL).

Also are looking to stop shipping in December, January and February to protect the network for our customers,
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
September 01, 2013, 08:24:33 PM
320*1.3 =~ 433 not 520

Roi in 2020 Wink

Does being that stupid actually hurt?

I understand where he's coming from. The original clock rate was 320. He's presuming they're talking about an additional performance on top of the original clock rate. However, that's not the case. They adjusted the stock clock rate to 400 in one of their announcements. So he's wrong in saying 320, but I can see why he thought that.

The problem with this is that it's linear thinking, you're not taking into account the efficiency increase over time. Think about how much advancement has occurred with CPU/GPU's over the past decade. Exponential is putting it lightly.

Yes there will be increase in efficiency but there's a technological wall at some point. 28nm will be pretty much the standard in months to come and that's about it. There could be 20nm but I don't see that happening for years to come. Mainly because it's not widely available and way too expensive.

But to have it double > double > double > double > double > double >double > double is impossible. Mathically/technologically wise. People don't seem to understand this.

It's like saying current CPU tech. It becomes double the speed/efficiency next year. and double again next year and double again next year. Going by the logic, by 2020, we should have 60ghz cpu with only 20w usage. lol. That's not exactly the case if you look at the benchmarks for the past few years.

Yeah that was the case back in the old days, pentium 1s but those days are over.

With bitcoin ASICs, you're already almost there at the top. Current bitcoin ASICs are not at Pentium1 levels.

It's still exponential because of quantity. Let's say they hit a wall with 28nm technology. They won't stop shipping in quantities, they will still be sold. Their price might go down some, which will encourage more sales. I say might, because not all MFG's have lowered their cost. And folks who mine altcoin can still find these useful tremendously.

This is something I don't understand. Folks are all up in arms about the systems not mining for useful profits beyond a certain point with bitcoin.. Ok? So shift your coins? I'm mining some altcoins using ASIC equipment and I'm making decent returns with them. They can be traded for fiat or, guess what, bitcoin.

Mining is a long-term thing, and with some sense, you can manage to get returns "somehow" by shifting what you're mining.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
September 01, 2013, 08:14:08 PM
320*1.3 =~ 433 not 520

Roi in 2020 Wink

Does being that stupid actually hurt?
sr. member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 265
September 01, 2013, 07:21:36 PM
Should be interesting if known miner device manufacturers stop shipping and the hashrate rises anyway pointing to some unknown manufacturer's hashing devices hitting the network.

Dude, ALL legit manufacturers devices will be hitting the network (with the probable exception of BFL).
soy
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
September 01, 2013, 07:09:09 PM
Should be interesting if known miner device manufacturers stop shipping and the hashrate rises anyway pointing to some unknown manufacturer's hashing devices hitting the network.
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
September 01, 2013, 06:30:50 PM
They've already added a clause saying that they will continue to sell through Dec, Jan etc if other companies add lots of to the hash power to the network (which is what is happening).
You are misinterpreting that section. They meant they'll lower price of Nov hardware to match increased difficulty, not that they'll keep shipping after Nov.

 Actually i have clarified this my self with them.    Actual e-mail response from them.  The seem to plan on shipping dec-feb if other competitors are.  Witch will most likely be the case.  

"Hi,
 
We are in the final productions stages with our chips we cannot disclose more information at the moment in time. We are looking to drop our prices for November and orders placed in November would be expected to ship towards the end of November.
 
Also are looking to stop shipping in December, January and February to protect the network for our customers, However we would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.
 
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate in contacting us.
 
Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Keith Gurnett"
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
September 01, 2013, 06:28:37 PM
777 th/s network now. 270th/s rise in one week Sad wtf is all this coming from??? At least the price of btc is rising

Bitfury, or blackmarket Bitsyncom.

Maybe this also:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269730.40

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248625.0;all

5 PH/s correct me if I'm wrong at the speculation board (not here):

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/did-someone-just-put-100th-on-the-network-285607
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
September 01, 2013, 04:19:56 PM
Have KNC revealed how their miners connect to the internet yet? I think someone suggested it would be an ethernet connection, not wifi?

If it were an ethernet connection, how could you set up a backup?

Say you have a wifi router. And you want to set up a usb dongle as backup in case the router goes down. Is that possible to set this up via an ethernet cable?

Ethernet & USB

Good, a USB Wifi dongle should work.
Oh cool, it has both  Smiley
soy
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
September 01, 2013, 04:07:02 PM
Have KNC revealed how their miners connect to the internet yet? I think someone suggested it would be an ethernet connection, not wifi?

If it were an ethernet connection, how could you set up a backup?

Say you have a wifi router. And you want to set up a usb dongle as backup in case the router goes down. Is that possible to set this up via an ethernet cable?

Ethernet & USB

Good, a USB Wifi dongle should work.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
cryptoshark
September 01, 2013, 03:59:18 PM
4btc for 12ghs
Nobody wants them.

I can afford jupiter, but it was too risky for me to buy one and pray for roi.
I prefer investing in shares, jd investments, other asic hardware.

You could afford a Jupiter, yet you bought shares of a 5xxx order?
Wow, I guess some folks are just used to sharing their Big Mac.

i have bought shares in 5x order, below one hundred Smiley

but ok, i sold them today.
i am happy Smiley

And knc was on time, shares paid good dividends and you got nailed in the ass.
Thats my perspective anyhow

yeah wait 6 months to get 3 btc back
no thanks
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
LIR DEV
September 01, 2013, 03:58:36 PM
Have KNC revealed how their miners connect to the internet yet? I think someone suggested it would be an ethernet connection, not wifi?

If it were an ethernet connection, how could you set up a backup?

Say you have a wifi router. And you want to set up a usb dongle as backup in case the router goes down. Is that possible to set this up via an ethernet cable?

Ethernet & USB
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
September 01, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
They've already added a clause saying that they will continue to sell through Dec, Jan etc if other companies add lots of to the hash power to the network (which is what is happening).
You are misinterpreting that section. They meant they'll lower price of Nov hardware to match increased difficulty, not that they'll keep shipping after Nov.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
September 01, 2013, 03:52:23 PM
untill now knc
have delay
because no real photo of chips
and only a word that he will sent at end of will be ready

knc will be out of time for sure

Put your money where your mouth is:

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/
legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1004
September 01, 2013, 03:46:32 PM
+1
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
September 01, 2013, 03:23:48 PM
Have KNC revealed how their miners connect to the internet yet? I think someone suggested it would be an ethernet connection, not wifi?

If it were an ethernet connection, how could you set up a backup?

Say you have a wifi router. And you want to set up a usb dongle as backup in case the router goes down. Is that possible to set this up via an ethernet cable?
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250
September 01, 2013, 02:51:01 PM
untill now knc
have delay
because no real photo of chips
and only a word that he will sent at end of will be ready

knc will be out of time for sure



Man what the hell are you going to do with yourself in a year or so from now when no matter what freaking miner you have, have invested in, had wet dreams about, doesn't make a shit bit of difference? I just can't imagine what you will find to do with your spare time. Eventually I will take my Jupiter out into a field and introduce it to several .556 rounds from my LE6920.  It will be fabulous.  Will you come watch?  Make a video?  Perhaps start some kind of wonderful conspiracy theory?  You need to get yourself a piece of ass bad man.  I think it will change your entire outlook.   400 + pages of speculation and 398 of them are filled with this crap.  Tell the voices in your head to take a Valium.  Do you really think after the BFL fiasco the company that has a chance to say they did it, did it right, and did it on time are going to just piss everything away? You need to stop sniffing glue or whatever bro.  Bad.   

+1
member
Activity: 329
Merit: 10
https://eloncity.io/
September 01, 2013, 02:20:43 PM
untill now knc
have delay
because no real photo of chips
and only a word that he will sent at end of will be ready

knc will be out of time for sure



Man what the hell are you going to do with yourself in a year or so from now when no matter what freaking miner you have, have invested in, had wet dreams about, doesn't make a shit bit of difference? I just can't imagine what you will find to do with your spare time. Eventually I will take my Jupiter out into a field and introduce it to several .556 rounds from my LE6920.  It will be fabulous.  Will you come watch?  Make a video?  Perhaps start some kind of wonderful conspiracy theory?  You need to get yourself a piece of ass bad man.  I think it will change your entire outlook.   400 + pages of speculation and 398 of them are filled with this crap.  Tell the voices in your head to take a Valium.  Do you really think after the BFL fiasco the company that has a chance to say they did it, did it right, and did it on time are going to just piss everything away? You need to stop sniffing glue or whatever bro.  Bad.   
hero member
Activity: 824
Merit: 712
September 01, 2013, 02:06:01 PM
Adjust that to 450 from 400 and things change radically (and the way KnC are talking we could be seeing closer to 500). That's looking like it may be the real picture. I'd say although you may need the money you'd be wise to think hard about jumping ship when exchange rates and hash rate of the rigs could rise and the projected difficulty shown on that calculator are so pessimistic long term (see many wise posts about the unlikelyhood of it rising so much ).

We're always exposed to difficulty risks, it's a risky game to play. Even buying BTC could wipe you out. That's why the rewards can be so good.

KNC wrote: "greater than 30% performance increase " that is more than 520 for a jupiter.

It's strange to me that this  announcement was almost completely ignored here!

Performance of CGMiner doesn't necessarily translate into more GH/s.  It could be related to how hard the internal Linux controller has to work running CGMiner.  This doesn't necessarily mean that it results in more GH/s from the system.  Also, if it does, this may have been why it went up to 400 GH/s in the first place.

I call BULLSHIT on that; Pure & simple. If that's what you think they meant, you may want to see a doctor. "Justanick is correct in his thinking"

I have posted on this thread only a couple of times and each time, you jump all over me for no reason at all.  If they meant the performance was going to increase to 520, don't you think they would have said that?  While that may yet happen, that wasn't the announcement.  

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