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Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 2030. (Read 3049499 times)

sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I thought that admittedly, but that's too narrow minded, and renegates the vies of bitcoin to that of Ponzi.

Exactly. Infinite loops n'all that. I had smoke coming out my backside....

The wealth creation in designing a means for people to spend Bitcoins as currency for other non-mining products and services is yet to be embraced and exploited...

+1. But I've had 30+ years to try and work out schemes to get people to part with their fiat.....and failed miserably Sad So I'm not holding out much hope regarding my chances with crypto's, in all honesty Wink I'm just enjoying the intellectual exercise I reckon Smiley

cue the nosy marketing research dataminers...

as a not perfect example, think of the boon of oilmen in North Dakota.  For sure there are people trying to figure out a profile of the newly rich backyard drillers..  what type of personaility do they have up there?  do they have lots of kids? how's the culture? etc...  then you cater your products and marketing to it and hope you're not completely stupid looking.

but with bitcoin you have two things..  newly rich folk like the above to target, and also a new eco-center of money that would be good to expand and keep it churning..  velocity is what they call it in those education towers..

So for miners.. what's their profile?  loners in need of fresh air? make a travel agency that takes bitcoins..  gamblers?  they still don't have full sportsbooks that flow with bitcoins from what I know of.. not talking satoshi dice here

maybe solar panels?

I placed my bets with Saturns, and some Avalon/DIYs and have a few USBees and my ModMiner..  time to move to the marketplace/economy boards I guess
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
I have read they partnered with ORSoC. That seems a legit and long living company thats trustworthy. But i dont remember to read how much financially KNCMiner is invested into ORSoC. I mean how much money did they put into ORSoC? Partnering could mean that ORSoC is paying the development and creation of the chips out of their own pockets. Were there numbers how much money KNCMiner put into ORSoC somewhere? If its much, and the amount of money KNCMiner got with their preorders isnt much higher, it would be a pretty good sign that KNCMiner is legit. Because they cant run easily.
Only thing to consider then would be the time when the miners are in customers hands.

A partnership doesn't mean you'll put any money into the other company.

The way I see it, KNCMINER will handle the front of the house and ORSoC the back. KNCMINER with take care or orders and payments and ORSoC will bill them, as a supplier.

This way, the risky bit (debt) is with KNCMINER while the profits can stay with ORSoC. If things go pear shaped, bankrupting KNCMINER will be much cheaper (and the profits are more or less safe with ORSoC - I'm sure though that Sweden must have some rule like "money that has been paid by KNCMINER to X,Y,Z within the last xx months needs to be returned and shared amongst all the creditors/state/banks/whatnot", so it's not all bad).

Please understand (KS I'm sure you do) there is a reputational element.

For all intents and purposes time is a healer etc. but any misappropriation of funds or failure would cause significant problems for them in future. Being affiliated with Bitcoin, there is a public relations risk for them I'm sure they don't want a failure on their hands. It's more than other people's money...

Not just misappropriation of funds, but bad management.

The goose with the golden eggs is ORSoC. If KNCMINER fails as a company, ORSoC can find another shell company to sell same or similar miners, can take over the clientele and generally let KNCMINER die and the accumulated debt with it (if debt is the killer).

That's an "old" business strategy: keep the money safe from the debt.

Same if the directors decide to split. KNCMINER is dead and ORSoC can take over the business directly or indirectly.

That doesn't mean ORSoC's reputation will suffer one bit. It depends how they will spin it and what they will do about it (if they don't do anything, it will be bad, but if they offer to take over support, they'll be seen as saviors).

Make no mistake, ORSoC knows exactly what type of mentality Sam and Andreas possess, and already have a plan of action in place. Remember, ORSoC has had bitcoiners on staff prior to this recently partnership.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
I thought that admittedly, but that's too narrow minded, and renegates the vies of bitcoin to that of Ponzi.

Exactly. Infinite loops n'all that. I had smoke coming out my backside....

The wealth creation in designing a means for people to spend Bitcoins as currency for other non-mining products and services is yet to be embraced and exploited...

+1. But I've had 30+ years to try and work out schemes to get people to part with their fiat.....and failed miserably Sad So I'm not holding out much hope regarding my chances with crypto's, in all honesty Wink I'm just enjoying the intellectual exercise I reckon Smiley
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Incidentally forcing people to undertake university education before they've been taught about debt and usury, let alone knowing what they want from life (presuming cooperate life is nothing most would choose given an 'educated' choice) is helping that situation no end!!

Absolutely right!

But banks don't exist without debt, so it makes perfect sense (to them) to indoctrinate a whole swathe of middle class kids into that way of life. Call me a cynic.....
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
if you don't think you can compete with miners, then sell things to them in btc.   

Like, er, mining equipment?

I thought that admittedly, but that's too narrow minded, and renegates the vies of bitcoin to that of Ponzi.

The wealth creation in designing a means for people to spend Bitcoins as currency for other non-mining products and services is yet to be embraced and exploited...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

stupid kid.

He might be trolling.....

Debt is the root of all evil. The early Christians knew it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

The result today is that in order to pay off debt, our modern Western Economies require infinite growth. In a finite environment. Doh!

+1. Incidentally forcing people to undertake university education before they've been taught about debt and usury, let alone knowing what they want from life (presuming cooperate life is nothing most would choose given an 'educated' choice) is helping that situation no end!!
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
if you don't think you can compete with miners, then sell things to them in btc.   

Like, er, mining equipment?
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

stupid kid.

He might be trolling.....

Debt is the root of all evil. The early Christians knew it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

The result today is that in order to pay off debt, our modern Western Economies require infinite growth. In a finite environment. Doh!
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1001
/dev/null
Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

stupid kid.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

Bitpop, you are the poster boy of how not to behave in this environment.

That is so incredibly irresponsible I don't know where to begin.

Risking bankruptcy is no laughing matter, and I hope someone else steps in and schools you on this matter as I very much doubt you will adhere to my words.

Bankruptcy is very, very serious and screws your credit history hard!

I've also seen you post a lot of nonsense to raise your post count and beat upon another forum member selling his pre-order for no reason than you want to troll. If this a reflection on you being young, immature, and careless; then seek professional advice on what potential bankruptcy entails for your future.

Really, really f-in stupid move. I hope anyone else considering this as par for the course in lending/borrowing money to fund speculation reads this and does not follow Bitpop's example. Google has tonnes of info on why this is very, very dumb. Moneysavingexpert.com would be an ideal place to start research, do it!

Do not put yourself into bankruptcy over what is tantamount to gambling, albeit what we hope is an educated gamble, for sure there are members here not making informed decisions, Bitpop congrats, you have just confirmed yourself as one of them...

Bargraphics, presumably has more money than sense to wire transfer $60k+, not sure what he expects as an outcome of flying to Sweden will be if this doesn't work out?! Nothing will be the likely outcome!
member
Activity: 67
Merit: 10
Even if you have the cash, debt is a very convenient way to mitigate risk.  I've watched many investors in the last couple years successfully mitigate risk with debt in the bottom of the real-estate market and they are now cash rich millionaires.

As with any investment, you have to weigh the risk.

$7000 dollars is a very small scale in comparison, but say you had 1 mil in the bank.  Would you risk the million or borrow from a bank with only 25% down payment?  Your skin in the game is now 250k.  Much more palatable than going all in.
member
Activity: 95
Merit: 10
I had reserved a place in queue several weeks ago but no order showed on my account to pay. I emailed to the addresses on the contact page and got this reply within hours:
*****
It’s perfectly normal that you can’t see your pre-orders on the website. But once you have placed a normal order we will match up the numbers and give you the correct place in the queue based on your preregistration.

You need to make a new order and we will then honor your queue placement based on your pre-order as long as you pay before 18:00 CET on Monday when we close the 7 days payment window.
*****

Hope this helps someone.

It helped me. I had the exact same question for them. Thanks!

J/
member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
I had reserved a place in queue several weeks ago but no order showed on my account to pay. I emailed to the addresses on the contact page and got this reply within hours:
*****
It’s perfectly normal that you can’t see your pre-orders on the website. But once you have placed a normal order we will match up the numbers and give you the correct place in the queue based on your preregistration.

You need to make a new order and we will then honor your queue placement based on your pre-order as long as you pay before 18:00 CET on Monday when we close the 7 days payment window.
*****

Hope this helps someone.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1060
Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
I'm all in on red

Well I hope that's not 'debt' being metaphorically typed.

Neither that or payment by bank transfer are particularly bright...
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1060
I'm all in on red
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500


10 Jupiters fully paid for.

All in on black

Ouch! Bank transfer?! Hope you know what you're doing...!
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
firstbits 1LoCBS
if you don't think you can compete with miners, then sell things to them in btc.   

Quoted for awesomeness.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
bitcoin value should swoon in the next 6 months unless the marketplace swells to make it better to spend the bitcoins instead of exchange them out to recover ROI in cash

also with bigger players getting bigger you could have more concentrated selling that can blow out weak bidding

if you don't think you can compete with miners, then sell things to them in btc.   

+1 the biggest opportunity in Bitcoin is still putting the effort into creating a product or service that apple tips Bitcoins for payment. That takes creativity and effort, the first mover advantage still exists here though, due to lack of competition...
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 266
Well, I dont have any actual specific datapoints i could refer you to. it just basic head aritmathics, and gut feeling.
like you said, considering all the known players, adding in some unknown just for spookyness  Cool and being just a tad bit more conservative than you. I arrive at almost the same figures.
But hey even based on this, you should break even on a Jupiter in about 2 months, and make around 30k in the first year. Thats with a profitabilty decline of about 0,5 per year, and not counting the 30% extra hashrate once the advanced algorithms by ORSoC are applied.
This is at current bitcoin value of about 120 usd.


Are you factoring electricity costs into that? My sums suggest longer.....

Yeah, but i have cheap electricity. Fixed rate of about 0.07 dollars at my home. Or free for a few years at least,  at a collegues office. If I Choose to host them there. Couldnt get into the 1-500, caught a break on my electricity expenses instead Smiley
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